The Image of The Beast

[Gerbolski]

Cyrus did indeed conquer Babylon, and Darius was after Cyrus not before Cyrus, and the Medes were amalgamated into the empire.

You quote this:

Isa 13:17
(17) Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.

And yes the Medes did go against them, but were amalgamated into the Persian empire.

An interesting verse is this:

2Ch 36:19-20
(19) And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.
(20) And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:

If you read the context of verse 19, it speaks of Babylon, and they were under Babylonian bondage until the reign of what ?

The kingdom of Persia.

Yes the Medes were inferior but amalgamated with Persia, they (Medes) were some form of kingdom but not a world wide kingdom like the other 4.

And on top of that, the third beast of Daniel does not fit Persia.

You said this Farmerjoe, not me:

Babylon = Head of Gold
Mede's = Arms of silver
Persian' s = Thighs of brass
Greeks = Legs of iron.

But this third aspect of the statue is exactly the same as the third beast of Daniel 7, which says:

Daniel 7:6
(6) After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Which kingdom was split in 4, well most people know this, it was the Grecian empire, which after Alexander's death it was split in 4, it is very well known.

Here is info on that:

(Something I wrote)

(...And here is what this division of 4 points to:
It points to not long after Alexander's death, the Grecian empire being split into four, and the 4 that were in charge
of these divided areas, were Seleucus, which was king of the north and points to Syria, Cassander which he had
Greece and neighbouring countries, Ptolemy, which was king of the south and points to Egypt, and Lysimachus,
which had Asia Minor....)

Your chronology does not fit.

 

[Gerbolski]

Here is interesting info on iron:

(Roman metallurgy - Wikipedia)

(...Significant studies have been made on the iron production of Roman Britain; iron use in Europe was intensified by the Romans, and was part of the exchange of ideas between the cultures through Roman occupation. It was the importance placed on iron by the Romans throughout the Empire which completed the shift from the few cultures still using primarily bronze....)

Even though Rome was involved in all kinds of metals, whether silver, gold and so on, iron was it's primary one.

 

[Gerbolski]

Daniel 7:6 (6) After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Daniel 7:7 (7) After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. Dan 7:23 (23) Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

The third beast, rises as an empire through Alexander the great, but after death gets split in 4, what follows is the next beast which who conquered the Grecian empire ?

Well it was Rome, and this beast conquered like no other, it was the empire that conquered the most of all 4, it was great and terrible, and even destroyed the temple in 70 A.D., and leveled much of Jerusalem, the description of the beast sure fits.

 

[Bill]

You mean Revelation. Tell us about the first seal.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Everyone jumps to the conclusion that the first seal is the Antichrist. But it's not

To understand Revelations requires a lot of background especially with the Old Testament. When we look at the four horsemen, each one of them starts from one location and has to head out from that location and head into a Direction. In the Old Testament it talks about the four horsemen and the directions that they go in.

But the first and most important thing is the starting point. And that's starting point is Jerusalem. It is the center of everything that has to do with scripture.

So through scripture we know that the white horse travels West. We know that the rider goes out as a conqueror, as if to conquer. It's very important you pay attention to the wording. Because the type of conquering it does is not physical conquering like one country to another country to another country it's not that type of conquering at all. The type of conquering that is going on is peace. The peace treaty between Egypt and Israel back in 1976 was the first seal. And the rider who was peace went out and began with Egypt and then went to another country made peace with another country and so on until there were many countries at peace with Israel. Before that time there was no peace no real peace nothing solid. And for many years almost a generation there was relative peace in the Middle East. All the entities that were involved with the peace treaties with Israel included a bow and arrows in their National seals. Egypt Israel America and where the conferences were held the Vatican.

 

[Gerbolski]

Everyone jumps to the conclusion that the first seal is the Antichrist. But it's not

Well it (the first seal, white horse) can be proven by just going by the word, in comparing scripture with scripture.

 

[Gerbolski]

In the Old Testament it talks about the four horsemen and the directions that they go in.

Were ?

 

[Bill]

Were ?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Zechariah 6 the red horses are going out to the country of the East the black horses are going out to the country of the North the White Horse are going out to the country of the West and devil are going out to the country of the South

If the white horses the Antichrist doesn't he affect the whole world? Why only is the White Horse going to the West?

 

[Gerbolski]

Darius took Babylon - not Cyrus. After Darius conquered it, he became a vasal and took charge of the northern portion of the kingdom and Cyrus the southern. Can you quote a verse that shows Cyrus taking out Babylon?

I will get back to you on this, I am putting something together, and checking out things carefully.

 

[Gerbolski]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Zechariah 6 the red horses are going out to the country of the East the black horses are going out to the country of the North the White Horse are going out to the country of the West and devil are going out to the country of the South

If the white horses the Antichrist doesn't he affect the whole world? Why only is the White Horse going to the West?

I am looking into these verses carefully making sure of what it is referring to, taking it in it's own context and checking to see if it really truly matches the 4 horses of Revelation or if there is another aspect to it.

 

[Gerbolski]

I've learned that there's a lot of misinformation on this issue. Secularist - which you agree with tell us that Cyrus took out Babylon. But the Old Testament says otherwise...

Darius took Babylon - not Cyrus. After Darius conquered it, he became a vasal and took charge of the northern portion of the kingdom and Cyrus the southern. Can you quote a verse that shows Cyrus taking out Babylon?

Daniel 5:31
"And Darius the Median took the kingdom, (Babylon) being about threescore and two years old."

Daniel 6:1 "It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;"

Daniel 9:1 "In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;"

Zec. 7:1 "And it came to pass in the fourth year of king Darius, that the word of the LORD came unto Zechariah in the fourth day of the ninth month, even in Chisleu;

Ezra 4:24 "Then ceased the work of the house of God which is at Jerusalem. So it ceased unto the second year of the reign of Darius king of Persia.

I am considering all your verses here, but looking at timeline, and things concerning Darius, and the potential of other Darius ones, and other verses we have not mentioned about Persia and Cyrus.

 

[Gerbolski]

Concerning Darius the Mede, and Darius the king of Persia, compare the 2, with also the reign of Cyrus, and other Persian kings.

I will mention more later, and yes I will have many verses and timelines, even with Persia in it.

 

[bellaj]

You must ask the god and allow the truth to flow thru you, as he has allowed us to Bleed in His name.

 

[Gerbolski]

I will just mention a bit of things right now, but mention more later.

What was said to the last king of Babylon is this:

Dan 5:28
(28) PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

His kingdom was to be given to the Medes and Persians (both).

And concerning Darius, well there were many Darius', there was the one you mention which is Darius the Mede, which was appointed by Cyrus, for this Darius was made a king:

Dan 9:1
(1) In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;

Now this Darius was made a king by Cyrus, in fact the whole realm was given unto Cyrus.

Ezra 1:2
(2) Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.


Dan 5:31
(31) And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

Here it shows that Darius the Mede took the kingdom, but in what way, well chapter 9 shows that he was made king of it.
Daniel chapters 5, 6 and 9, are dated to 538 b.c., which was the first year that Darius the Mede had some type of reign in Babylon and the first year Cyrus was reigning as a king over a type of world wide empire, now he was king of Persia way before that, but his reign in a world wide type empire began here, and he appointed Darius the Mede as king in Babylon.

But also it says this about Cyrus:

Ezra 5:13
(13) But in the first year of Cyrus the king of Babylon the same king Cyrus made a decree to build this house of God.

So close to the year of 538 b.c. (give or take) , Cyrus was already proclaimed king of Babylon, so obviously Darius the Mede was temporary.

And in Daniel chapter 1 it says this:

Dan 1:21
(21) And Daniel continued even unto the first year of king Cyrus.

And then there is this one called Darius the king of Persia, which is not Darius the Mede, the Darius king of Persia, which is known as Darius I, became the king of Persia in about 522 B.C., which it was Cyrus, then Cambyses, then Darius I.

Darius the Mede was a type of temporary appointed king by Cyrus, as Cyrus was reigning, but Darius I (king of Persia) was not a king of Persia until Cyrus and Cambyses for that matter, were off the scene.

Now here is a comment on this stuff:

(Who is Darius the Mede?)

(....(speaking of Darius the Mede) In this instance, Daniel gives more information about this ruler than any of the others—including his age (5:31), his father (9:1), and his nationality. Daniel didn’t believe that this was “Darius the Persian” from 522 BC. He specifically calls him “Darius the Mede.” In other words, he distinguishes between the two. Daniel acknowledges that both the Medes and Persians conquered Babylon (Dan. 5:28). He also knew that Cyrus was the king of Persia (Dan. 1:21; 6:28). In other words, Daniel is far from ignorant regarding the historical details surrounding Darius...)

(Who was Darius in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org)

(...The book of Ezra mentions another king named Darius, also known as Darius I or Darius the Great. This was the son of Hystaspes, a king of Parsa. Darius I ruled Persia from about 521 to 486 BC. Darius I is presented in Ezra as a good king who helped the Israelites in several ways. This same Darius is mentioned in Haggai 1:1 and Zechariah 1:1....)

So Darius the Mede's father was Ahasuerus and Darius I's father was Hystaspes.

So here is a bit of context on things.

I have more than this, and may share a bit more.

 

[Gerbolski]

Here is some more interesting stuff from KingsComments:

(KingsComments)

(...Daniel 5:31

The Empire of the Medes and the Persians

Darius is from the Medes, not from the Persians. In the last verse of the next chapter we read about “the reign of Darius” and “the reign of Cyrus the Persian” (Dan_6:28 ). Media and Persia are two different empires that do have the rule together. We have seen this in the two arms of silver of the statue (Dan_2:32 ). We also see it in Daniel 7 in both sides of the bear, where one side is stronger than the other (Dan_7:5 ) and in Daniel 8 in the ram with the two horns (Dan_8:20 ).

The most powerful man is Cyrus, the Persian. He has overall dominion. Because of the size of his kingdom, he gave to Darius, the Mede, the kingship over the kingdom of the Chaldeans, so the Babylonian part of the Medo-Persian kingdom (Dan_9:1 ). Darius is connected to the same area and the same city where Daniel always lived....)

I Believe I was correct in what I previously said about saying that the kingdoms were amalgamated into one empire (Medo-Persian), and in the KingsComments, they show bible proof of the 2 aspects of this empire, with the bear being higher on one side, with the two arms of silver, and the ram with 2 horns in Daniel chapter 2.

And of course the bible says this:

Ezr 1:2
(2) Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

The whole realm was given to Cyrus, and the statue refers to 4 kings and 4 kingdoms.

1. Babylon, and Nebuchadnezzar = head of Gold
2. Persia (amalgamated Medo-Persian), and Cyrus = chest and 2 arms of silver
3. Grecia and Alexander the great = belly and thighs of brass
4. Rome and Caesar Augustus = legs of iron and feet and toes partly iron partly clay.

 

[Twistie]

Here is some more interesting stuff from KingsComments:

(KingsComments)

(...Daniel 5:31

The Empire of the Medes and the Persians

Darius is from the Medes, not from the Persians. In the last verse of the next chapter we read about “the reign of Darius” and “the reign of Cyrus the Persian” (Dan_6:28 ). Media and Persia are two different empires that do have the rule together. We have seen this in the two arms of silver of the statue (Dan_2:32 ). We also see it in Daniel 7 in both sides of the bear, where one side is stronger than the other (Dan_7:5 ) and in Daniel 8 in the ram with the two horns (Dan_8:20 ).

The most powerful man is Cyrus, the Persian. He has overall dominion. Because of the size of his kingdom, he gave to Darius, the Mede, the kingship over the kingdom of the Chaldeans, so the Babylonian part of the Medo-Persian kingdom (Dan_9:1 ). Darius is connected to the same area and the same city where Daniel always lived....)

I Believe I was correct in what I previously said about saying that the kingdoms were amalgamated into one empire (Medo-Persian), and in the KingsComments, they show bible proof of the 2 aspects of this empire, with the bear being higher on one side, with the two arms of silver, and the ram with 2 horns in Daniel chapter 2.

And of course the bible says this:

Ezr 1:2
(2) Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

The whole realm was given to Cyrus, and the statue refers to 4 kings and 4 kingdoms.

1. Babylon, and Nebuchadnezzar = head of Gold
2. Persia (amalgamated Medo-Persian), and Cyrus = chest and 2 arms of silver
3. Grecia and Alexander the great = belly and thighs of brass
4. Rome and Caesar Augustus = legs of iron and feet and toes partly iron partly clay.

Hey if you dont mind can you make the blue part black for me idk how to change it ive tried i really am tech dumb im happy i know how to send an email frfr but i was getting all into what ya wrote n then bam blue n i cant see

Have a heart n help a gal out lol

Hope alls well @Gerbolski

(⁠ʘ⁠ᴗ⁠ʘ⁠✿⁠)

 

[Gerbolski]

Hey if you dont mind can you make the blue part black for me idk how to change it ive tried i really am tech dumb im happy i know how to send an email frfr but i was getting all into what ya wrote n then bam blue n i cant see

Have a heart n help a gal out lol

Hope alls well @Gerbolski

(⁠ʘ⁠ᴗ⁠ʘ⁠✿⁠)

Hi Twistie, once one posts something, you only have a certain time to edit it, than you cannot, but I tell you what, that specific part in blue that you quoted, I will send you by private message in normal color.

 

[Twistie]

Hi Twistie, once one posts something, you only have a certain time to edit it, than you cannot, but I tell you what, that specific part in blue that you quoted, I will send you by private message in normal color.

ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ

 

[Gerbolski]

Darius took Babylon - not Cyrus. After Darius conquered it, he became a vasal and took charge of the northern portion of the kingdom and Cyrus the southern.

Well in Daniel it says this:

Dan 5:28
(28) PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

Now also it says this:

Dan 5:31
(31) And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

And we know he was made a king:

Dan 9:1
(1) In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;

Was he part in the conquering of Babylon ? Well nothing is really clear on that, but one thing is clear that when Babylon was taken, he was made king over it for a short time, and that the kingdom was given to the Medes and the Persians.

Cyrus may have been directly or indirectly involved, but whatever the case, he had a say in it.

Isaiah says this:


Isa 44:28
(28) That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

Isa 45:1-3
(1) Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
(2) I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
(3) And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

So Cyrus was allowed by God to subdue many nations and loose the loins of many kings.

Here is interesting history from a book that I have had in my library for a while.

(New bible Atlas)

(...by 540 BC he (Cyrus) was threatening Babylonia itself, and in 539 he entered Babylon without a fight, 'in peace, joy and jubilation'
(inscription on the Clay Cylinder of Cyrus), welcomed by its people as the restorer of the worship of Marduk...)

And I had mentioned this before in another post:

"Cyrus did indeed conquer Babylon, and Darius was after Cyrus not before Cyrus, and the Medes were amalgamated into the empire."

When I said this, I was indeed thinking of Darius king of Persia, which is Darius I, but I think I also, as well as you Farmerjoe, may have been mixing Darius the Mede with Darius I, but I thank God for our discussion, which caused me to search out these things, so that things can be clarified.

And indeed via Darius I, he was king of Persia after Cyrus and Cambyses were off the scene.

And the bible says this of course:

2Ch 36:22-23
(22) Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
(23) Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The LORD his God be with him, and let him go up.

 

[Gerbolski]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Zechariah 6 the red horses are going out to the country of the East the black horses are going out to the country of the North the White Horse are going out to the country of the West and devil are going out to the country of the South

If the white horses the Antichrist doesn't he affect the whole world? Why only is the White Horse going to the West?

Now it is time to deal with the Billy stuff.

 

[Gerbolski]

Hi Billy, I want to be careful how I say things, I care about you Bill.

I have looked carefully at those horses, let us go to those verses:

Zec 6:1-8
(1) And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass.
(2) In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
(3) And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses.
(4) Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
(5) And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
(6) The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
(7) And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
(8) Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.

So in these visions it mentions chariots, and for each chariot, which are 4, they are being pulled by a plurality of horses.

The order that it gives are first the red, secondly the black, thirdly the white, and fourthly the grisled and bay horses.

But the order in Revelations, of it's four horses, is this:

Rev 6:2
(2) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Rev 6:4
(4) And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Rev 6:5-6
(5) And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
(6) And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Rev 6:8
(8) And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

The order is completely different than Zechariah, and in Zechariah white horses follow after the black horses, but in Revelations it shows nothing like that, for it is first the white, than the red, and AFTER THAT THE BLACK.

And the last horses in Zechariah are grisled and some are bae, but in Revelations the last horse is pale.

I will get more into detail on this, but is it wise to make the horses of Zechariah to fit with the horses of Revelations ?