The Holy Spirit

[james1523]

The doctrine of the Trinity correctly explains the relationship between the persons of the Father, Son and Spirit, but in an objective way. According to this doctrine, the persons of the Father, Son and Spirit are distinct, such that right now the Son is not on Earth, but the Spirit is. However the Trinity doctrine does not explain the subjective nature of our experience. On the subjective side, Christ is on Earth as the Spirit, indwelling every believer, and the Spirit is Christ. If we believe that the Spirit is not the Spirit of Christ, or that Christ is not living inside of us but some other mysterious person or not at all, I think it will cause problems in our spiritual life.

In Christianity today it is commonly believed that the Father and the Son are in Heaven and only the Spirit is on Earth with us. If we ask a believer who is the Spirit? Some may say He is a mysterious force or power, others a mysterious third person of the Trinity who they refer to as "Holy Spirit", (e.g. Benny Hinn's best-selling Good Morning Holy Spirit book), others might say He is an Advocate, Comforter or Helper. Most people don't really know who the Holy Spirit is because they have been taught to believe that Jesus is only far away in the Heavens and we are waiting for Him to come back, and the Spirit is another person. Few might say that the Spirit is God, or the Spirit is Christ. For the apostle Paul, the presence of the Spirit was the presence of Christ. In Gal 2:20 Paul said that Christ lives in him. Of course, Paul did not mean Christ in his physical flesh lived in him, as that is impossible, but the presence of the Spirit and the presence of Christ were to Paul, one and the same. On the one hand, Christ is in Heaven, and we wait for His return. Yet on the other hand, Christ is on Earth, inside every believer, by His Spirit.

There is really no example in the Bible of the Spirit being worshipped or being prayed or talked to as "Holy Spirit", as Benny Hinn and others do. I believe this is not because the Spirit is not God or not worthy to be worshipped - but because it doesn't make sense to pray to or worship the same person twice. We can see from the Bible that the presence of the Spirit is also the presence of the Father and the Son, the complete Trinity, so if we worship the Father and the Son, we do not really need to worship the Spirit. A danger is, I believe, thinking or inviting a Spirit other than Christ, exposes ourself to familiar spirits masquerading as the Spirit. For example, this is evident particularly with the Lakeland revivalist Todd Bentley's constant head-jerking motions, strange laughter, and stated that the Holy Spirit told him to kick an old lady in the face (as shown on YouTube). All the visible evidence would suggest that the person Bentley refers to as the Holy Spirit (but not as Jesus Christ), is in fact a familiar spirit aka demon. So that we do not end up in a similar situation, we should be clear like the apostle Paul was, that the Spirit is Christ. This will save us from those who insist on getting high or drunk on the "Holy Spirit" like a drug or alcohol, or revivalists like Bentley who believe it is OK to kick someone in the face if he believes the "Holy Spirit" told him to, or those like Benny Hinn who present the Holy Spirit not as Christ, but as "electricity" or "power" which can knock people down (aka "slain in the Spirit").

The Biblical evidence:

Jesus said He would give his disciples another comforter.
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever-17 the Spirit of truth

Compare with Matthew 28:20 when Jesus said He is with the disciples always "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age".

So the Spirit is with them always, and Jesus is with them always, we have two persons of the Trinity who are always with us.

Read in isolation, John 14 verse 16 indicates that the Spirit is different from the Father or the Son. However this does not imply that the Spirit is entirely separate from the Father and the Son (as He would be if God were not a Trinity).

Then Jesus said the Spirit will be in them.
verse 17 "...But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you."

Then in verse 18 Jesus said He will come to His disciples after His departure:
verse 18 "18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you."

Then verse 19 says that the disciples would see him but the world would not - "Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live."

It is only possible for Christ to come to the disciples and for only the disciples (not the world) to see Christ, if Christ is the Spirit.

Paul says Christ is the Spirit and the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ:
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom

Scholars confirm that the meaning is that Christ and the Spirit are the same:
"The Lord is the Spirit," that is, Christ is the Holy Spirit; they are one and the same. Charles Hodge, An Exposition of the Second Epistle to the Corinthians (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1859, 1980), p. 74

Paul says Christ is in them:
Col 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

It is only possible for Christ to be in us if the Spirit is Christ.

Then Jesus said in John 14 verse 20 that He would be in His disciples:
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

The Spirit would be in them, and Christ would be in them, and Christ is in the Father.

Therefore it is not merely the Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity who lives in us, but the complete Trinity - Father, Son and Spirit.
This is conformed by verse 23 where it says "we will come to them", a clear reference to the Trinity:
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Whenever the Spirit comes to live inside a person, He brings the Father and the Son, the complete Trinity with Him. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit is Christ. The presence of the Spirit is also the presence of the Father and the Son. The Spirit is God (Acts 5:3, John 4:24).

 

[Travis]

Hey James,

This is really interesting and thought provoking. I've been studying some of the early Christian heresies concerning denial of the tri-une nature of the Godhead (Arianism, Sabbelianism/patripassianism/modalism, and others) so I can appreciate some things you are saying that avoid the pit falls many have fallen into.

I would just like to add a little more from what Charles Hodge said there, so that it might not be misinterpreted by some:

"The Lord is the Spirit," that is, Christ is the Holy Spirit; they are one and the same. Not one and the same person, but one and the same being, in the same sense in which our Lord says, "I and the Father are one." It is an identity of essence and of power. Christ is the Holy Spirit, because, being the same in substance, where Christ is, there the Spirit is, and where the Spirit is, there is Christ. Therefore this same apostle interchanges the three forms of expression as synonymous, "the Spirit of Christ," "Christ," and "the Spirit." Rom 8,9,10. The Holy Ghost is everywhere in the Bible recognized as the source of all life, truth, power, holiness, blessedness and glory. The apostle, however, had in the context spoken of Christ as the source of life, as delivering from the death and bondage of the law. He is and does this because he and the Spirit are one; and therefore wherever Christ is, or in other words still, wherever the Spirit of Christ is, or in other words still, wherever the Spirit is, there is liberty. By turning unto Christ we become partakers of the Holy Spirit, the living and life-giving, because he and the Spirit are one, and Christ dwells in his people, redeeming them from the law and making them the children of God, by his Spirit.​

Travis

 

[james1523]

Hey James,

This is really interesting and thought provoking. I've been studying some of the early Christian heresies concerning denial of the tri-une nature of the Godhead (Arianism, Sabbelianism/patripassianism/modalism, and others) so I can appreciate some things you are saying that avoid the pit falls many have fallen into.

I would just like to add a little more from what Charles Hodge said there, so that it might not be misinterpreted by some:

"The Lord is the Spirit," that is, Christ is the Holy Spirit; they are one and the same. Not one and the same person, but one and the same being, in the same sense in which our Lord says, "I and the Father are one." It is an identity of essence and of power. Christ is the Holy Spirit, because, being the same in substance, where Christ is, there the Spirit is, and where the Spirit is, there is Christ. Therefore this same apostle interchanges the three forms of expression as synonymous, "the Spirit of Christ," "Christ," and "the Spirit." Rom 8,9,10. The Holy Ghost is everywhere in the Bible recognized as the source of all life, truth, power, holiness, blessedness and glory. The apostle, however, had in the context spoken of Christ as the source of life, as delivering from the death and bondage of the law. He is and does this because he and the Spirit are one; and therefore wherever Christ is, or in other words still, wherever the Spirit of Christ is, or in other words still, wherever the Spirit is, there is liberty. By turning unto Christ we become partakers of the Holy Spirit, the living and life-giving, because he and the Spirit are one, and Christ dwells in his people, redeeming them from the law and making them the children of God, by his Spirit.​

Travis

Yes thankyou for that Travis, I did not have time to go into the detail. Using Hodge's terminology, the OP is essentially about recognizing that Christ and the Spirit are different persons, but also realizing that they are one and the same being.

 

[judge not]

Some things to consider:

Historically, the Church of God did not accept the trinity as being biblically based. It looked upon the belief as unscriptural and had pagan roots
Jesus said- " I and my Father are one "-John 10:30. He didn't say I and my Father and the Holy Spirit are one.
The Father and Son are one in Spirit. One in mind. One in their thinking. The Father and Son are complete in accord and harmony. They are 2 separate distinct Persons in a composite unit.
Nowhere is the Holy spirit ever spoken as a divine Person but rather it is the influence, nature, character, and mind of god.
The New Catholic encyclopedia says " God's Spirit is simply God's power.not a person." They continue to say the majority of NT text reveals God's spirit as something, not someone, when a quasi-personal activity is ascribed to God's Spirit like speaking and dwelling.
Understanding the presence of the HS is through understanding the use of personification in the scriptures, characteristics are given the attributes of a person-Prov 8
the word trinity is not even mentioned in the New Testament and the idea would be foreign to the apostles.
In the bible God uses symbols like fire, wind, and water when referring to the Holy Spirit.
Paul did not even acknowledge in his introductory comments in his epistles the Holy spirit, but he did refer to the Father and the Son together..1 Cor 1:3, Gal 1:3, etc.

Most often than not, the NT passages that speak of the father and Son do not mention the Holy spirit.
The apostles understood the spirit of God as the power of God, never as a third person of a trinity.
The trinity concept crept into Christianity hundreds of years after the Apostolic age.

 

[RJ]

Call it what you wish or refer to the Bible for something it says or doen't say. The trinity does exist, the three do exist. God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are all three seperate but at the ame time the same. We are truly not ment to, much less capable to fully understand no more than we can undertand the immaculate conception, Jesus being very man and very God at the same time. Just goe with scripture and what you believe inside you. Christ in you tells you truth! It is an inner faith, sense of peace and understanding. You just know, like how you have been saved by grace alone.

 

[Travis]

Some things to consider:

Historically, the Church of God did not accept the trinity as being biblically based.

That's not a true statement at all. In the 2nd century (100-200 AD) and afterwords, countless heresies came forth attacking the nature of God and the triune reality of who He is. This forced the early church Fathers defend against these heresies which attacked the simple truth that the New Testament made so clear (but is revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures as well like all truth is). The doctrine of the triune nature of God was being hashed out and refined in the 2nd century and continued to become ironed out about the time of 4th century by men like Athanasius of Alexander. It's just a plain lie to say that this doctrine was created hundreds of years after the fact. It's clear that the Apostles of Jesus Christ understood this mystery sufficiently by their writings. The doctrine of the Trinity is essential to the Christian church, and any real departure from it must be considered heresy because it strikes at the heart of what Jesus did on the Cross. One can claim they believe in the Trinity and still misunderstand God, but I don't believe one can deny the Triune nature of our God and still truly understand who he Is. The Trinity is a core belief.

Nowhere is the Holy spirit ever spoken as a divine Person but rather it is the influence, nature, character, and mind of god.

The scriptures constantly allude to the Spirit of God as a person, one who is totally and utterly capable of thought, opinion, and everything else that defines a person:

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

It says "He," because it is referring to a person.

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?​

One does not lie to a force or a power.

1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.​

The Spirit gives himself to every man as he (the Spirit) wills. Persons have wills.

Acts 15:28
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;​

Things don't "seem good" to forces, but they do to people.

The scriptures clearly show that the Spirit of God is a person.

 

[RJ]

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
In the begining, us and our are plural, who do you think they were?

 

[james1523]

Some things to consider:

Historically, the Church of God did not accept the trinity as being biblically based. It looked upon the belief as unscriptural and had pagan roots
Jesus said- " I and my Father are one "-John 10:30. He didn't say I and my Father and the Holy Spirit are one.
The Father and Son are one in Spirit. One in mind. One in their thinking. The Father and Son are complete in accord and harmony. They are 2 separate distinct Persons in a composite unit.
Nowhere is the Holy spirit ever spoken as a divine Person but rather it is the influence, nature, character, and mind of god.
The New Catholic encyclopedia says " God's Spirit is simply God's power.not a person." They continue to say the majority of NT text reveals God's spirit as something, not someone, when a quasi-personal activity is ascribed to God's Spirit like speaking and dwelling.
Understanding the presence of the HS is through understanding the use of personification in the scriptures, characteristics are given the attributes of a person-Prov 8
the word trinity is not even mentioned in the New Testament and the idea would be foreign to the apostles.
In the bible God uses symbols like fire, wind, and water when referring to the Holy Spirit.
Paul did not even acknowledge in his introductory comments in his epistles the Holy spirit, but he did refer to the Father and the Son together..1 Cor 1:3, Gal 1:3, etc.

Most often than not, the NT passages that speak of the father and Son do not mention the Holy spirit.
The apostles understood the spirit of God as the power of God, never as a third person of a trinity.
The trinity concept crept into Christianity hundreds of years after the Apostolic age.

I just want to address the matter of the Spirit not being a person.
John 4:24 says God is Spirit, but if the Spirit is simply God's power, then John 4:24 really says God is power, and not a person, is that correct?

 

[judge not]

That's not a true statement at all. In the 2nd century (100-200 AD) and afterwords, countless heresies came forth attacking the nature of God and the triune reality of who He is. This forced the early church Fathers defend against these heresies which attacked the simple truth that the New Testament made so clear (but is revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures as well like all truth is). The doctrine of the triune nature of God was being hashed out and refined in the 2nd century and continued to become ironed out about the time of 4th century by men like Athanasius of Alexander. It's just a plain lie to say that this doctrine was created hundreds of years after the fact. It's clear that the Apostles of Jesus Christ understood this mystery sufficiently by their writings. The doctrine of the Trinity is essential to the Christian church, and any real departure from it must be considered heresy because it strikes at the heart of what Jesus did on the Cross. One can claim they believe in the Trinity and still misunderstand God, but I don't believe one can deny the Triune nature of our God and still truly understand who he Is. The Trinity is a core belief.




The scriptures constantly allude to the Spirit of God as a person, one who is totally and utterly capable of thought, opinion, and everything else that defines a person:

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

It says "He," because it is referring to a person.

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?​

One does not lie to a force or a power.

1 Corinthians 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.​

The Spirit gives himself to every man as he (the Spirit) wills. Persons have wills.

Acts 15:28
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;​

Things don't "seem good" to forces, but they do to people.

The scriptures clearly show that the Spirit of God is a person.

i was referring to the early Apostolic church while the apostles were alive prior to 100 AD-the doctrine of the trinity as it is known today did not emerge in its fully developed form until the latter part of the fourth century.-belief in a fashion of it pre-dated the Trinitarian creeds by at least two centuries.
Paul, in his epistles, warned to beware of false teachings that were starting to invade the church of God that perverted the gospel and teachings of Christ.

Jesus never used the word " trinity " once. The apostles neither spoke or wrote about a " trinity "
Why did Jesus come to reveal the Father? why did He tell us to pray to the Father only through Him?

The Catholic encyclopedia claims the first time the word trinity is found in any historical manuscripts is with Theophilus of Antioch around 180 AD.
I believe Christ, Peter and Paul would be the authorities on such an issue as God in three persons.
Christ said " he that has seen me has seen the Father.." John 14:9 - and Christ has been described in both human and glorified form and yet there is never mentioned of the visage, shape or image of the Holy Spirit. If God were to allow you to appear before His throne in heaven you would see the Father and His son and angels but you wouldn't see the HS as a person with arms and legs and a face because the HS is present in the Father and in the Son as well as being in God's people because the Holy Spirit is everywhere(omnipresent). the Holy spirit is the spiritual indwelling in us of God.
Paul speaks about the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ but you will never read about the Spirit of Spirit.
God, the Father or the Son is never spoken of as being " poured out " but in Revelation and in Joel the Spirit of God is manifested as water. In other books analogies are made using wind and fire-the elements in nature.
The use of " He' and " him " are personifications which present the HS with attributes of personalities and actions.
The " Comforter " is the personification of God's love, wisdom, power, and so forth
And in some cases the Greek words used in the NT can easily be translated " it ' or " he " depending on what mindset the translators had with the KJV.

 

[judge not]

I just want to address the matter of the Spirit not being a person.
John 4:24 says God is Spirit, but if the Spirit is simply God's power, then John 4:24 really says God is power, and not a person, is that correct?

Sounds like a trick question. But my belief is God is a Family composed of the Father and the Son and that the Holy Spirit represents the spiritual presence and influence and activity of God in our natural world. Also that the Father and son are distinct persons
Spirit-composed God " Beings " (Heb. ELOHIM) exist on a totally different plane than do human (beings).
the Bible says God is a person - Hebrews 1:3, so God is Spirit and a person-a Spiritual person. So is the Son

 

[james1523]

Sounds like a trick question. But my belief is God is a Family composed of the Father and the Son and that the Holy Spirit represents the spiritual presence and influence and activity of God in our natural world. Also that the Father and son are distinct persons
Spirit-composed God " Beings " (Heb. ELOHIM) exist on a totally different plane than do human (beings).
the Bible says God is a person - Hebrews 1:3, so God is Spirit and a person-a Spiritual person. So is the Son

If the Spirit represents God, then what is God? Because a thing which represents something else, cannot be the same as that which it represents.

 

[Travis]

i was referring to the early Apostolic church while the apostles were alive prior to 100 AD-the doctrine of the trinity as it is known today did not emerge in its fully developed form until the latter part of the fourth century.-belief in a fashion of it pre-dated the Trinitarian creeds by at least two centuries.
Paul, in his epistles, warned to beware of false teachings that were starting to invade the church of God that perverted the gospel and teachings of Christ.

Jesus never used the word " trinity " once. The apostles neither spoke or wrote about a " trinity "
Why did Jesus come to reveal the Father? why did He tell us to pray to the Father only through Him?

The Catholic encyclopedia claims the first time the word trinity is found in any historical manuscripts is with Theophilus of Antioch around 180 AD.
I believe Christ, Peter and Paul would be the authorities on such an issue as God in three persons.
Christ said " he that has seen me has seen the Father.." John 14:9 - and Christ has been described in both human and glorified form and yet there is never mentioned of the visage, shape or image of the Holy Spirit. If God were to allow you to appear before His throne in heaven you would see the Father and His son and angels but you wouldn't see the HS as a person with arms and legs and a face because the HS is present in the Father and in the Son as well as being in God's people because the Holy Spirit is everywhere(omnipresent). the Holy spirit is the spiritual indwelling in us of God.
Paul speaks about the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ but you will never read about the Spirit of Spirit.
God, the Father or the Son is never spoken of as being " poured out " but in Revelation and in Joel the Spirit of God is manifested as water. In other books analogies are made using wind and fire-the elements in nature.
The use of " He' and " him " are personifications which present the HS with attributes of personalities and actions.
The " Comforter " is the personification of God's love, wisdom, power, and so forth
And in some cases the Greek words used in the NT can easily be translated " it ' or " he " depending on what mindset the translators had with the KJV.

The doctrine of the Trinity is not subject to what name you call it, only what is contained in the doctrine, namely a three person God who is one being. Same with Calvinism, whether you hold to it or not, no one called it Calvinism until well after John Calvin was dead. So... whenever it adapted the exact name trinity is totally irrelevant. It's also irrelevant that the scriptures never use the word trinity. Trinity is just a word we use to describe a scope of theological ideas derived from what the scriptures plainly speak about. It's a lot easier to say our God is a "Trinity," than to always say, "Our God is three co-eternal persons, yet one being," or something similar. When one says "Trinity" most people at least have a general idea what you are talking about. What actually forms the meaning of what we mean when we say "Trinity" is what is contained in the scriptures. The name itself is arbitrary, what it means is important. It's what's contained in the doctrine itself that has been around since the first century (Well, much longer than that really....).

To suggest that John 16: 13 should be translated as "it" instead of "he" is to murder basic Greek grammar and understanding for the sake of some pet doctrine in my opinion. The Holy Spirit is often referred to as a masculine person in the scriptures.

I agree, Paul, Jesus, and Peter are authorities on the issue. They all agree that the Holy Spirit is a person, and not a just a force. Paul says:

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.​

All three persons mentioned together in that context puts them all on the same level. Jesus Christ, God (the Father), and the Holy Ghost are all equal with eachother, they are one God. If the Holy Ghost were just some force, he would not be put on the same level as the Son and the Father. The reason why many times the Father and Son are talked about without mention of the Holy Ghost in the scriptures is directly related to John 16:13. The Holy Ghost does not speak for Himself first and foremost, he is concerned with bringing glory and attention to the Son and Father.

Jesus is portrayed as a rock in the scriptures... So, by your logic, Jesus must then not be a person either?

Anywho, your arguments betray the fact that you do not know the Holy Ghost at all, for if you knew Him, you would know that he is a person. The Holy Spirit lives in me, and through Him the Father and the Son live in me as well. I know the Holy Ghost is a person simply by the fact that he speaks to me.

Travis

 

[judge not]

The doctrine of the Trinity is not subject to what name you call it, only what is contained in the doctrine, namely a three person God who is one being. Same with Calvinism, whether you hold to it or not, no one called it Calvinism until well after John Calvin was dead. So... whenever it adapted the exact name trinity is totally irrelevant. It's also irrelevant that the scriptures never use the word trinity. Trinity is just a word we use to describe a scope of theological ideas derived from what the scriptures plainly speak about. It's a lot easier to say our God is a "Trinity," than to always say, "Our God is three co-eternal persons, yet one being," or something similar. When one says "Trinity" most people at least have a general idea what you are talking about. What actually forms the meaning of what we mean when we say "Trinity" is what is contained in the scriptures. The name itself is arbitrary, what it means is important. It's what's contained in the doctrine itself that has been around since the first century (Well, much longer than that really....).

To suggest that John 16: 13 should be translated as "it" instead of "he" is to murder basic Greek grammar and understanding for the sake of some pet doctrine in my opinion. The Holy Spirit is often referred to as a masculine person in the scriptures.

I agree, Paul, Jesus, and Peter are authorities on the issue. They all agree that the Holy Spirit is a person, and not a just a force. Paul says:

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.​

All three persons mentioned together in that context puts them all on the same level. Jesus Christ, God (the Father), and the Holy Ghost are all equal with eachother, they are one God. If the Holy Ghost were just some force, he would not be put on the same level as the Son and the Father. The reason why many times the Father and Son are talked about without mention of the Holy Ghost in the scriptures is directly related to John 16:13. The Holy Ghost does not speak for Himself first and foremost, he is concerned with bringing glory and attention to the Son and Father.

Jesus is portrayed as a rock in the scriptures... So, by your logic, Jesus must then not be a person either?

Anywho, your arguments betray the fact that you do not know the Holy Ghost at all, for if you knew Him, you would know that he is a person. The Holy Spirit lives in me, and through Him the Father and the Son live in me as well. I know the Holy Ghost is a person simply by the fact that he speaks to me.

Travis

Hello. -some thoughts for you to look at.

John 10:29 -"
My father...is greater than all"
John 14:28 - " for my father is greater then I "
The Bible shows that the Father and the Son are the same in mind but the Father is the supreme Sovereign
The Head of Christ is God - 1Cor 11:3 - the two of them are equal in divinity but are different functionally.

In 11Cor 13:14 -the Greek word translated communion means fellowship or to share in as in the sharing in of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.

As is known the trinity idea was originated well after the NT was written that is understood by Catholic theologians.
In the Old Testament the Holy spirit is always defined as the Power of God not a distinct person.
In the NT Paul refers to the HS as the power of the spirit -2 Tim 1:7
Luke 1:35 -Jesus would be conceived by the HS -"the HS will come upon you " and this was described as the power of the Highest (the Father )
Jesus is the Son of God, the father, not the Son of the spirit.
Jesus began his ministry in the " power of the Spirit ' -Luke 4:14
And the apostles were told " you will receiver POWER when the HS comes upon you" -Acts 1:8
The Holy spirit is the nature of God's power working in us " -2 Peter 1:4, Gal 2:20
The Anchor Bible dictionary shows that God imparted divine inspiration to his prophets by the Holy Spirit.- 2 Peter 1:21 confirms this.
It is through God's Spirit within us we receive "the mind of Christ' -1Cor 2:16
The Holy Spirit is spoken of in many ways that demonstrate it is not a DIVINE PERSON.
We are told the HS can be quenched., it can be poured out. People can drink of it even. it can be stirred up in us.
these impersonal characteristics are not attributes of a person.
God the Father and Jesus are consistently compared to human beings in their form and shape.
The Holy Spirit is consistently represented by various symbols and manifestations-oil, fire, a dove.
1 Cor 8:6 - " there is one God, the Father.....and one Lord Jesus Christ "-again Paul makes no mention of the Holy Spirit as a divine person.
In the Gospels Jesus spoke only of the relationship between the Father and Himself -Matt 26:39, Mark 13:32, john 5:18 for examples.
The Holy spirit is absent from most of Jesus's teachings.

And finally when we come to the end of the Bible-we see the God the Father, and the Son, the Lamb of God present in the " New heaven and new earth "
but strangely enough the Holy Spirit is absent again from the scene again.

This is only a small part of the evidence of a trinity idea that supposedly is biblical.
As more gentile followers entered the early church from pagan areas we see their influence corrupt the true scriptures that were inspired by God through His spirit.

 

[judge not]

If the Spirit represents God, then what is God? Because a thing which represents something else, cannot be the same as that which it represents.

It's figurative language associating the subject (God, the Father) with the means by which He reveals or deals with things in the natural world.
If you prefer a better word for you would be- refers-the Holy spirit refers to God's spiritual presence through intervention in our space and lives.
An example of figurative language would be Jesus's description of the " Comforter ".
God is an eternal family unit.= Our destiny is to be born into that Family as well.