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The Free ride of some Christians to Heaven

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Member
Why do some Christians in this day and time, who are able body readers, don’t have to read their bibles, even college educated people who are well off. Only thing they have to do is say I love God or I love Jesus. I believe in God, I am a good person, I believe Jesus is the Son of God.
And when anybody dies, either their friends, family members are always looking down over them, from Heaven! The church is full of this! And when some one gets murdered. Stories are told in church how they are in Heaven, and sometimes the person do not even believe in Jesus Christ! And most of these churches are backing them up! In United States of America’ everybody go to Heaven, just believe have faith you will go there, just go to a funeral, the church will tell you we are having a home going!

The church is leading the way on this path. And some say; the church is a place to find the “Truth” and to hear the “Truth”! Somebody is lying! This belief has arisen from inside the “institutionalize church” and not from the streets of “Baghdad”, and have spread out, into the “7 Continents of the World” that had risen and sits upon the waters.
I agree with you. Probably the church in general is like this. I just think that there are still some good churches around. It is a question of denomination, but not only. It is a question as well of that church to be guided by the Holy Spirit. That the supreme authority of God can be upon that church. We can see the description of some churches in the first chapters in the book of Revelation. Some of them fell in idol worshiping, some of them left Jesus out of the church and He was knocking on their door to enter. Revelation 3:20 That statement can be seen as something personal in our life and can be speaking generally to the whole group as a church. Or perhaps the leaders of that church were living that. We don't know. However only two of the seven churches in Revelation were praised by Jesus. And this can be compared to the churches today. I also think that the Holy Spirit can give us wisdom to have understanding which is the sound one. This is a tricky one, because as it happens people change church sometimes because they don't like something or are not comfortable with something. Leaders in church aswell are just people too and will do some mistakes, but we need to see their attitude.
 
Member
Ah! but in verses 22 and 23 of Matt 7, there is this:-

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In: 1 Corinthians 15:40-41

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the asun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

There are different degrees of glory in heaven. So there may be some good people who don't believe, having been taught the gospel in the spirit prison - (1 Peter 4:6) who may believe and still obtain a degree of glory. Possibly they didn't hear the gospel message. However, there will be some as it the verses above.

Most people won't be cast down to hell. They will be given the telestial glory which will be very nice. Others may have sinned and not repented of their sins, be again been good people. They may repent as they are taught in the next life but may not attain the celestial glory, but the terrestial glory.

The celestial kingdom is for those who have taken out the covanents required to be with the Father and Jesus Christ again, and be sealed in family units. No one can enter this degree of glory without taking out those covenants. However, it would be unfair and unjust to not allow people the chance to accept the gospel in the spirit world. So there is a way for the work to be done on their behalf by proxy. This work can only be perfomred in a temple.

A read of Malachi 4 is pertinant here.

5 Behold, I will asend you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (This herladed in the interest in Genealogy, as Latter Day Saints prepared to do work in the temple to redeem those gone before them. This spirit of Elijah is at work all over the world now as people from all walks of life and faith do their genealogy. Some don't really know why they do it, just that they feel impressed to do it. In other words, Elijah has returned already).

Elijah held the keys of the sealing power, to bind on earth and have their acts sealed everlastingly in the heavens above. Peter also had these keys as the chief prophet in his time. Only a prophet can hold these, and other keys, such as the gathering of Israel. This is why we need to have a prophet on the Earth, for no-one can hold the keys of the kingdom unless they are passed down to him and the apostles. Without that power the work of God would be layed to waste.

Chapter 3

1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his ccoming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

Chapter 3 also talks about paying tithing and how not paying it is robbing God. But that tithing has to go to the correct place.

Vs 10:
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

There is much more to just believing to get into the highest degree of glory.
 
Loyal
Sounds like you're taking actual Scripture and adding your own assumptions to it.

At the time of the death, burial and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ -- He did go to hell with the Gospel to give those there a 2nd chance to accept His salvation which had just been made possible. That was a one-time event. Everyone Else either accepts or rejects salvation in the 'here and now'.

Matthew 16:15 - 19 is the passage you're referring to about Peter and the keys of the kingdom of heaven and what ever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and what ever you loos on earth will be loosed in heaven'.

However, going back up to the beginning of this passage -- Peter is declaring that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God."

The Church is being built on the foundation of Jesus Christ -- the Son of God. And that Hades will Not win over that.

And we Also have Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "For by grace you have been saved, through Faith, and that not of yourselves , it is the gift of God, Not of work, lest anyone should boast."

Either a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior or they haven't. In This present life.

Not of works, lest anyone would be boastful --- means that being a good person isn't enough. Going to church every Sunday, joining a church , being baptized Without salvation won't 'work'.

Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God -- that He died for our sins, that He was buried and that He rose again bodily on the third day -- to be 'saved' is believing that in your heart. Romans 10:9-10 belief in your Heart and confession by your mouth, the Lord Jesus. -- to be saved. 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 Not simply knowing in your Head, but believing in your Heart. And thanking God For his salvation. Then the Holy Spirit Will come and dwell in your heart and you Will have the inner peace that had Not been there there before. And He, the Holy Spirit will stay with us until we are safe with Jesus Christ.
 
Active
Ah! but in verses 22 and 23 of Matt 7, there is this:-

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In: 1 Corinthians 15:40-41

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the asun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

There are different degrees of glory in heaven. So there may be some good people who don't believe, having been taught the gospel in the spirit prison - (1 Peter 4:6) who may believe and still obtain a degree of glory. Possibly they didn't hear the gospel message. However, there will be some as it the verses above.

Most people won't be cast down to hell. They will be given the telestial glory which will be very nice. Others may have sinned and not repented of their sins, be again been good people. They may repent as they are taught in the next life but may not attain the celestial glory, but the terrestial glory.

The celestial kingdom is for those who have taken out the covanents required to be with the Father and Jesus Christ again, and be sealed in family units. No one can enter this degree of glory without taking out those covenants. However, it would be unfair and unjust to not allow people the chance to accept the gospel in the spirit world. So there is a way for the work to be done on their behalf by proxy. This work can only be perfomred in a temple.

A read of Malachi 4 is pertinant here.

5 Behold, I will asend you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. (This herladed in the interest in Genealogy, as Latter Day Saints prepared to do work in the temple to redeem those gone before them. This spirit of Elijah is at work all over the world now as people from all walks of life and faith do their genealogy. Some don't really know why they do it, just that they feel impressed to do it. In other words, Elijah has returned already).

Elijah held the keys of the sealing power, to bind on earth and have their acts sealed everlastingly in the heavens above. Peter also had these keys as the chief prophet in his time. Only a prophet can hold these, and other keys, such as the gathering of Israel. This is why we need to have a prophet on the Earth, for no-one can hold the keys of the kingdom unless they are passed down to him and the apostles. Without that power the work of God would be layed to waste.

Chapter 3

1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his ccoming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

Chapter 3 also talks about paying tithing and how not paying it is robbing God. But that tithing has to go to the correct place.

Vs 10:
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

There is much more to just believing to get into the highest degree of glory.
Hi Mack,

Might I suggest a really interesting exercise for you? Google 'Jesus said I am'. Read all the passages, pray about them and ask the Holy Spirit to explain what God's telling you and I think you'll find it quite illuminating.

Best wishes, Andy
 
Loyal
The title of this thread -- there's no such thing as a 'free ride' to heaven for Anyone. Well -- salvation is the free gift from God through Jesus Christ. But the Christian life is no picnic especially when a person is trying to Live it.
There seems to be a concept that OSAS is a Bad thing. Sort of a licence To sin. That a person can do Anything they want and not loose their salvation. We Do have 'liberty' in Christ. But a born again believer Does have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. He changes our inner desires. We won't Want to do the bad things, but we find ourselves doing things we know we shouldn't. But we don't have inner peace when we Do those things - once in a while. The Christian life Will have Lots of trials / tribulations. We will be laughed at / ridiculed when we Do take a stand for God's Word. And we Do need to take a stand For God's Word.
 
Loyal
There seems to be a concept that OSAS is a Bad thing. Sort of a licence To sin. That a person can do Anything they want and not loose their salvation. We Do have 'liberty' in Christ. But a born again believer Does have the Holy Spirit indwelling us. He changes our inner desires. We won't Want to do the bad things
Maybe OSAS isn't meant to be taken that way. But it usually is.
I recently posted a message in the "The Buzz/Newstand" Forum about several Baptist preachers now supporting abortion/pro-choice.
(It was even given recognition by a southern Baptist convention)

Both these Pastors stated in other interviews, that neither believed abortion was OK for many years (decades).
They have "come to realize God loves us, no matter what decisions we make" - I actually agree with that, the way that sentence is worded.
I'm paraphrasing the quotes below from memory. But I think I'm pretty close.
One of the Pastors was a predestinationist -- "God wouldn't have let me make these statement, if He didn't want me to. The Holy Spirit is in me
controlling my thoughts, words and actions". His church has a regular attendance of about 10,000.
The other Pastor is hard core OSAS. -- "If I'm wrong, it's not big of a deal, it's not like I can lose my salvation". (Interestingly, he is currently running as a Democrat
Senator in Georgia) A small minority of his congregation have left his church. But they still have two services with close to 1700 members every Sunday.

I will find the links to those interviews and post them.
 
Loyal
Those pastors -- well -- yes, God Does love us to matter what decisions we make as believers -- but we still have the consequences of bad choices.

The other pastor -- everything a person does is predestined by God -- so we have no Choice ?! That is -- don't know how to spell it -- bologne. Passing the buck to the Holy Spirit. That's a new one. Blame 'it' on the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

L O L -- running as a Democrat Senator. Somehow it seems fitting. :)

Kind of taking the responsibility Off the person. Of Course it's popular. Also rather sad.
 
Member
Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.


Not saying there is not forgiveness , It is not the sin that is in hell it is the sinner
 
Loyal
The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is a thing that Jesus Hates and appears to be a tier system of men that separated lay from clergy then got worse by adding more and more layers of clergy between the people and the Lord.
The word "Nicolaitans" comes from the word "Nicolaos" which means victor of the people and the word "Balaam" means devourer of the people, the two in symbolic unity signify religious seducers of the people.

It is interesting that the "Nike" shoe company gets their name from this word which to them means "conquer"

Many a Church leader wants to keep their flock in subjection to themselves.
 
Loyal
Maybe OSAS isn't meant to be taken that way. But it usually is.
I recently posted a message in the "The Buzz/Newstand" Forum about several Baptist preachers now supporting abortion/pro-choice.
(It was even given recognition by a southern Baptist convention)

Both these Pastors stated in other interviews, that neither believed abortion was OK for many years (decades).
They have "come to realize God loves us, no matter what decisions we make" - I actually agree with that, the way that sentence is worded.
I'm paraphrasing the quotes below from memory. But I think I'm pretty close.
One of the Pastors was a predestinationist -- "God wouldn't have let me make these statement, if He didn't want me to. The Holy Spirit is in me
controlling my thoughts, words and actions". His church has a regular attendance of about 10,000.
The other Pastor is hard core OSAS. -- "If I'm wrong, it's not big of a deal, it's not like I can lose my salvation". (Interestingly, he is currently running as a Democrat
Senator in Georgia) A small minority of his congregation have left his church. But they still have two services with close to 1700 members every Sunday.

I will find the links to those interviews and post them.

Sounds like he's not taking responsibility for his own actions.
 
Loyal
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
Loyal
It IS a Free Gift of God -- there is nothing any one can do to Earn his way to heaven. Jesus Christ has already done everything necessary to take care of our sins. We need to acknowledge our own need and accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God / His death, burial and bodily resurrection the 3rd day.
 
Member
There are no free rides to heaven. It cost the Savior dearly to ensure our ticket to heaven was secure. That is why his love constrains us to live for Him. Thank you Jesus for your unspeakable gift!
Thank you for speaking the truth in a thread that shouldn't even be here.
 
Member
2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
 
Loyal
@mmcent -- yes, that Is happening more and more these days. Which is a Good reason to be in God's Word ourselves == what does it Really say. What are we Supposed to be doing and how are we Supposed to be acting.
 
Member
Why do some Christians in this day and time, who are able body readers, don’t have to read their bibles, even college educated people who are well off. Only thing they have to do is say I love God or I love Jesus. I believe in God, I am a good person, I believe Jesus is the Son of God.
And when anybody dies, either their friends, family members are always looking down over them, from Heaven! The church is full of this! And when some one gets murdered. Stories are told in church how they are in Heaven, and sometimes the person do not even believe in Jesus Christ! And most of these churches are backing them up! In United States of America’ everybody go to Heaven, just believe have faith you will go there, just go to a funeral, the church will tell you we are having a home going!

The church is leading the way on this path. And some say; the church is a place to find the “Truth” and to hear the “Truth”! Somebody is lying! This belief has arisen from inside the “institutionalize church” and not from the streets of “Baghdad”, and have spread out, into the “7 Continents of the World” that had risen and sits upon the waters.
I can understand this perspective for sure even when you look at the Bible , today we have it very easy and the truth is even God knows that there is such a thing as a goat like believer and a sheep like believer. When one reads the teachings of Jesus , one can see this acknowledgement in Mt 7 when Jesus says why do you call me lord lord and not do as I say. I do think it calls for self reflection on how one is carrying out a life of faith. If we don't look at ourselves first, then we may be those lacking.
 
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