The false 70ad theory

[StewardoftheMystery]

When did I ever mentioned the mark in my original post? I was talking about the IMAGE of the beast, what is your mind automatically shifted to the mark? Tell you what, the image will be implemented FIRST, whatever the mark is, it's just a certificate or a badge of what's already been done.

Plus, anything Satan does is a counterfeit of God's original design. What was God's original design? The answer is in the Shema prayer in Deut. 6:8 - “you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes." This is the only right angle to dive in when it comes to the analysis of the mark. Any theory without mentioning Deut. 6:8 is a non-sense conspiracy theory.

Worshipping the image of the serpent and the image of man is connected to the mark of sin, as sin is self serving and is self worship.

The mark, the number, the name, and the image to be worshipped is all connected to sin and the sin nature in man.

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 13:15; And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Rev 13:16; And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17; and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18; Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

The Mark will be a physical, visible mark. You wont be able to buy or sell anything without the mark. The mark will specifically be on your right hand or forehead.

Rev 16:2; So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth; and it became a loathsome and malignant sore on the people who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his image.

Taking the mark is an unforgivable sin. If you take the mark, you are doomed. No forgiveness. There is forgiveness for other sins, but not this one.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

For all those who want to know the Truth on the mark of the man/beast read this thread.

The mark of the man/beast

I am going to spend some time explaining by scripture what the mark, name, and number of the man/beast truly is. It is important that one use scripture to confirm all these truths, as I will do in my following threads and posts. First let’s explore what the mark of the man/beast is by first...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Worshipping the image of the serpent and the image of man is connected to the mark of sin, as sin is self serving and is self worship.

The mark, the number, the name, and the image to be worshipped is all connected to sin and the sin nature in man.

That sin nature is replaced with spiritual nature for all God's people. If you're Christ's, then sin has no more dominion over you.

You're trying to smudging all of these together because you don't know the specifics, even though the bible is very clear and specific in this part. Again, before you or B-A-C or anybody else would like to bring up your favorite conspiracy theory about the mark, please, focus on the IMAGE first, because that comes first, like it or not. That image is Satan's counterfeit of God's creation of man in Gen. 2:7, at the end, Satan will be given power to do that, and that's the DIVIDING line. People don't just "worship the image", they have to MAKE one (Rev. 13:14), and then in Rev. 13:15 the image becomes alive. Whatever the mark is, it only certifies the earth dwellers who have ALREADY made the image and allows them to trade. At this point, they are officially beyond redemption, there's zero possibility for them to repent, and they're ready to receive the real wrath of God through the seven bowl judgement.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

For all those who want to know the Truth on the mark of the man/beast read this thread.

If you seriously wanna know the real biblical origin of this mark, go study on Deut. 6:8 and 1 King 10:14, don't waste your time on any conspircy theory.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

If you seriously wanna know the real biblical origin of this mark, go study on Deut. 6:8 and 1 King 10:14, don't waste your time on any conspircy theory.

What I have written is true, as I have received understanding in it from the Lord. I prove all my points by the words of God. But I also understand why people will not be able to receive it.

All I can do is deliver the message, I cannot make people understand it, only the Lord can give understanding in it to whom He will.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

What I have written is true, as I have received understanding in it from the Lord. I prove all my points by the words of God. But I also understand why people will not be able to receive it.

All I can do is deliver the message, I cannot make people understand it, only the Lord can give understanding in it to whom He will.

I've delivered my message as well, on the phylactery and King Solomon's tribute as origin of the mark. Those are just a start. Take it or not, the choice is yours.

 

[Brother Paul]

Problems with 70ad.

Matt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

The temple was destroyed in 70ad. Not 3 1/2 years after 70ad. So there is no way the abomination of desolation happened here for 3 1/2 years.

Daniel says this will be at least 3 1/2 years when this happens. ( 1,290 days )

Dan 11:31; "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The disciples asked Jesus this question...

Matt 24:3; As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

When is the end, and when are you coming back? Another problem is that Jesus didn't come back in 70ad. We are still waiting for Him.

Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Yet another problem is that the gospel had not been preached "to the whole world" at that time, so the end could not come. Indeed there are still parts of the world today who have never heard the gospel.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

The Bible says this will be the greatest tribulation of all time. Since the beginning of the world, and there will never be a worse tribulation.
Well the seige of Jerusalem was bad, but the entire population of Jeruslaem is estimated to be around 70,000 at that time.

In world war II over 7 million Jews were killed. Not only that, the world wars didn't affect only Jerusalem, they affected countries all over the world.
Millions of people were killed. These were much worse times than one single city with a relatively small population being destroyed.

Perhaps the biggest problem with the 70ad tribulation theory is...

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

There is no record of a rapture in 70ad. Surely this would have been a note worthy event that would have been recorded somewhere. Even by secular historians.
There is also no record of temple desecration anywhere is any Jewish history records of the seige of 70ad. Yes, it was destroyed, but there is no record of it
being used for Pagan sacrifices during this time.

Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Again, no rapture in 70ad. No one left standing alone because the angels gathered up the elect.
These verses are sometimes used to support the 70ad theory.

Matt 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him.
Matt 24:2; And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."
Mark 13:2; And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

Jesus said not one stone would be left standing. ... and yet here we are 2,000 years later and an entire wall is left standing. The "western wall" or "Wailing wall".
So Jesus must have been talking about something else.

Also if Jesus did come back...

Rev 20:2; And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

When was Satan imprisoned for a thousand years? Is he still inprisoned, or has he been destroyed?
If this is true, why are there still false/satanic religions in the world today?

When Jesus comes back, it won't be some secret clandestine meeting. The whole world will see it, the whole world will know it.

Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Rev 1:7; BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

So there you have it. No abomination of desolation. Not the worst tribulation of all time. Jesus didn't secretly return. Satan isn't imprisoned yet. The gospel hasn't been preached to the whole world yet.
"Every" stone of temple wasn't thrown down off of one another. There are simply too many things that disagree with the Bible here.

One observation, though we tend to run the two questions together in Matthew 24:3 we must remember the disciples dod not know what they were talking about here (hence the need for clarificaation). These are two separate items and not specific to 70 AD.

 

[B-A-C]

One observation, though we tend to run the two questions together in Matthew 24:3 we must remember the disciples dod not know what they were talking about here (hence the need for clarificaation). These are two separate items and not specific to 70 AD.

I agree they are separate events, (I believe the timing of both are closely tied) but it doesn't matter if they are or not. Out of all the things Jesus said would happen during "the greatest tribulation the world will ever know"...
None of them happened in 70ad. Particularly the abomination of desolation.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I agree they are separate events, (I believe the timing of both are closely tied) but it doesn't matter if they are or not. Out of all the things Jesus said would happen during "the greatest tribulation the world will ever know"...
None of them happened in 70ad. Particularly the abomination of desolation.

Whatever you say, boss. It was 70AD based on Luke 21:20, and 70AD was the only one that resulted in the slaughter and captivity in Luke 21:24. Any other siege after that in history is Jerusalem "being trampled under foot by the Gentiles."

 

[PloughBoy]

So many times, people are so confusing. the Bible is not confusing when one, reads it on its own, and not be persuade by men or women or other books. It is plainly Spoken.
1. Adam
2. Noah
3. Abraham
4. Moses
5. The time of the Kings and Prophets
6. The time of The Pharsee and The Sadducees
7. The Birth of Jesus, "Emmanuel"
8. The coming of and The Anointing of "The Parakletos"
9. The Fall of Jerusalem 70 A.D.
10. The beginning of Sorrows
11. And then The dead in Christ shall rise 1st. and those who are alive will be caught up and MEET JESUS in THE AIR and he will Take us AWAY to a Place He promise to Take us too, and there will be our "CORONATION Celebration " th crowing of the King and The kings

12. Then we all and all of the Armies of HEAVEN will Return to EARTH, for This is His "SECOND COMING to EARTH to set up HIS REIGN and His ANGELs will gather from The 4 corners of The earth, gathering his people who have endured 'Great Tribulation" Jacob's trouble" and They will be the ones who will live in "The New Jerusalem" the saints who died and was Change upon The Armies of Heaven Approach for JESUS Second appearance. These people are not "The SONS of GOD" for they are "The PEOPLE of GOD", who will Live forever and ever in GOD:S Kingdom and They will be protected, by "The Sons of GOD" while living during the 1000 year REIGN, The Shared REIGN of The Sons of GOD.

13. At the end of The 1000 year reign the outside forces who do not lived in The protected City of "The NEW JERUSALEM" that Came out of The SKY from Heaven Shall Surround The City to kill The people of The 1000 reign, The millennium period.

They cannot kill us, The kings and The priest of GOD that REIGNS with CHRIST WE have been Crown in Heaven already AND we cannot die, we all have "GLORIFIED Bodies"! WE ARE RULING!
But those who lives in The City who lives as long as a 1000 years and so do some die before the 1000 year ends even some children die before they get old. And in that City, There are leaves and trees for the healing of The nations, where they come year after year.

But we who lives who where caught up in The sky, We are The Ones Who Rules With a shared "Iron Rod" In The Kingdom To Protect Those Who Are Not "IMMORTALS" They Have Not A "Glorified Body Yet! Not Until The 1000 Year Reign Is Over ! Then God The Father Will Destroy All Creation And Make Something Brand New" and "The New Jerusalem" will be in "ETERNITY too" and There Our Reign has No end, And throughout "ETERNITY" and They will say: "THERE GO"S The Sons OF GOD" We will Light up All ETERNITY and The creature will know who we are!


This is not A "Fantasy' or A Child's Story Book Story! "This is The SALVATION's STORY that many say they know and they know it not!"

"For eye have not seen nor ear heard or entered the heart of men" What GOD the FATHER has In stored for THOSE WHO LOVE HIM!

Heaven is nothing when to be compared What The Father has in stored to us "The ADOPTED sons of The GOD ALMIGHTY"

And Most Of The Christians So They Proclaim Are Only Trilled About Trinkets, And Worldly Stuff And Worldly Satisfactions And A World's View Of Heaven And A Worlds View Why Heaven Even Exists. and they are stuck and refused to get Up, Although many claim They have power but yet instill deny it and cannot see The Eternal Things set right Before their own eyes withinThe Pages of The BOOK.

PloughBoy Carrying The MAIL

Note:

 

[PloughBoy]

The people will rejoice and be relieved to hear Their voices no more, The words, that come forth from their mouths.

"When they complete their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the bottomless pita will declare war against them, and he will conquer them and kill them. And their bodies will lie in the main street of Jerusalem, the city that is figuratively called “Sodom” and “Egypt,” the city where their Lord was crucified. And for three and a half days,[maybe 3 1/2 years] all peoples, tribes, languages, and nations will stare at their bodies. No one will be allowed to bury them. All The People Who Belong To This World Will gloat over them and give presents to each other to celebrate the death of the two prophets who had tormented them."

The world do not love "The GOD" who created them "THE LORD GOD". they hated him without a cause. "For we are not of this WORLD:". we are of "GOD" and our citizenship is in "HEAVEN" for we are "HEAVENLY Born.

PloughBoy

 

[Hekuran]

Hi @B-A-C

I've looked into this over the past couple of days. Im pretty sure that jesus was foretelling the destruction of jerusalem in 70ad.

First, the still standing Western Wall was a retaining wall, not a wall of the temple itself.

Second, if the Abomination that causes Desolation didn't occur then, it couldn't happen afterwards as there is no temple.

Gessius Florus looted the temple in 66ad, so there is time for 3 1/2 years between the abomination and the 70ad destruction.

Last, its not much of a prophecy to foretell the destruction of a building in 2,000+ years time. All buildings fall down sooner or later.

I'm convinced that at the beginning of Matt 24, Jesus is speaking of event that happen within a generation. What is not clear to me is at which point he moves to a longer timeframe.

Hope that's helpful in some way. You got me thinking and reading.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Is this really rocket science to consider that maybe this is talk about the BODY TEMPLE? Which is very clearly, unequivocally defined in John 2:21 and 1 Cor. 6:19? Not a physical temple building? Do you really expect that one day soon the Jews will blow up the mosque on the temple mount and build the third temple on its ruins?

 

[Hekuran]

Is this really rocket science to consider that maybe this is talk about the BODY TEMPLE? Which is very clearly, unequivocally defined in John 2:21 and 1 Cor. 6:19? Not a physical temple building? Do you really expect that one day soon the Jews will blow up the mosque on the temple mount and build the third temple on its ruins?

In Matthew 24 Jesus is very clearly speaking of the Temple in Jerusalem. The conversation starts with his disciples admiring the architecture. Jesus then says that not one stone will be left on top of another. Elsewhere the Bible has the temple as a metaphor for the body. But here, it's the temple building in mind.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

In Matthew 24 Jesus is very clearly speaking of the Temple in Jerusalem. The conversation starts with his disciples admiring the architecture. Jesus then says that not one stone will be left on top of another. Elsewhere the Bible has the temple as a metaphor for the body. But here, it's the temple building in mind.

This is where you must decide which narrative fits in. If it's 70AD, then of course, it's the second temple; but if it's the future "abomination of desolation" that marks of beginning of the Great Tribulation, then perhaps the definition should be reconsidered. I believe Yeshua spoke about both, since the disciples asked about both.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I'm convinced that at the beginning of Matt 24, Jesus is speaking of event that happen within a generation. What is not clear to me is at which point he moves to a longer timeframe.

He moved to a larger timeframe in Luke 21:24, which, unfortunately, is not included in Matthew's or Mark's account of the Olivet Discourse.

 

[B-A-C]

First, the still standing Western Wall was a retaining wall, not a wall of the temple itself.

It depends on who's version you read. But I agree with you, it's hard to get an accurate consensus on this.

Western Wall

The Western Wall, also known as the “Wailing Wall” or the "Kotel", is the most religious site in the world for the Jewish people. Located in the Old City

www.touristisrael.com

King Herod built this wall in 20 BCE during an expansion of the Second Temple. When the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 CE, the support wall survived. For hundreds of years, people prayed in the small area of the wall that could be seen. In 1967, following the Six Day War, Israelis dug below the ground of the wall, exposing two more levels.

What is The Wailing Wall in jerusalem? | Western Wall Heritage Foundation

Learn about the Wailing Wall! Click now and read interesting facts and figures about the ancient Western Wall, its stones and the ancient gates >>

thekotel.org

They teach us about the various changes that occurred to the Western Wall since the destruction of the Second Temple. The subterranean layers (as well as some of those above ground) are made up of the original Western Wall stones from the end of the Second Temple period.

What Is the Western Wall? | My Jewish Learning

The last remaining wall of the ancient Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

www.myjewishlearning.com

The last remaining wall of the ancient Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

What You Need to Know About the Wailing Wall or Western Wall

The location of the Wailing Wall — also known as the Western Wall — is alongside the Temple Mount and is much disputed between Arabs and devout Jews.

www.thoughtco.com

The wall is believed by devout Jews to be the Western Wall of the Second Temple of Jerusalem (destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE), the only surviving structure of the Herodian Temple

 

[Brother Paul]

Is this really rocket science to consider that maybe this is talk about the BODY TEMPLE? Which is very clearly, unequivocally defined in John 2:21 and 1 Cor. 6:19? Not a physical temple building? Do you really expect that one day soon the Jews will blow up the mosque on the temple mount and build the third temple on its ruins?

Not at all but never the less it shall occur. Perhapos one or two of their own misplaced missles.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Not at all but never the less it shall occur. Perhapos one or two of their own misplaced missles.

Don't count on that. When Yeshua predicted that not one stone will be left upon another, that wasn't just the destruction, but also no future restoration, meaning no stone will ever be put upon another stone either. It is mentioned multiple times in the bible that there was "this age" and "the age to come", that was referring to the second temple era and the church era after that, the dividing line is none other than 70AD. The Jews will probably find another site to build their temple, but that would be FAKE.