The doctrine that paul taught was it against the law, p

[David777]

Hello ozell.

I have been reading your posts and I have difficulty with
most of them.

Here is an example, you stated:

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:3)

The spirit in this case is the word of God

Do you know whom the Holy Spirit is ozell?

The Spirit is not the "word of God".

The Spirit is the indwelling Holy Spirit ozell.

Do you understand what Paul refers to when he uses
the term "flesh"?

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery fornication,
uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies,
outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions,dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,
drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just
as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will
not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-26)

 

[David777]

Waiting.

Just trying to keep this thread active.

 

[JonahofAkron]

The Spirit is not the "word of God".

The Spirit is the indwelling Holy Spirit ozell.

Do you understand what Paul refers to when he uses
the term "flesh"?

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery fornication,
uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies,
outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions,dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,
drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just
as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will
not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-26)

Agreed. And what are the works of the Spirit?

 

[David777]

Hello JonahofAkron.

The Holy Spirit intercedes for us. Romans 8:26

Searches our hearts. Romans 8:27

Communicates with us. Acts 13:2

Teaches us all things. John 14:26

Reminds us of scripture. John 14:26

Etc.

 

[JonahofAkron]

The Holy Spirit intercedes for us. Romans 8:26

Searches our hearts. Romans 8:27

Communicates with us. Acts 13:2

Teaches us all things. John 14:26

Reminds us of scripture. John 14:26

Etc.

Not an answer to the question....

 

[David777]

Sorry.

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

(1 Corinthians 12:5-11)

 

[ozell]

is the commandments against us?

so what really was nailed to the cross?[/QUOTE]

Our sins were nailed to the cross, nothing more.

The cross forgives, the resurrected spirit of Jesus Christ saves!

if your sins were nailed to the cross then why do we still sin?

why did John tell us that if we sin we have Jesus as our advocate?

why do we need Jesus as our advocate for sin if sin has been nailed to the cross?


1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


why is this statement made long after Jesus died and rose?

maybe sin is still around and this teaching that sin is nailed to the cross need to be nailed to the cross.


there is a sin that is nailed to the cross, its not what the churches teach today.

 

[ozell]

I have been reading your posts and I have difficulty with
most of them.

Here is an example, you stated:

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3:3)

The spirit in this case is the word of God

Do you know whom the Holy Spirit is ozell?

The Spirit is not the "word of God".

The Spirit is the indwelling Holy Spirit ozell.

Do you understand what Paul refers to when he uses
the term "flesh"?

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery fornication,
uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies,
outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions,dissensions, heresies, envy, murders,
drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just
as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will
not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-26)

the reason you have problems with my post is because of the teaching and doctrine that you have

the spirit that dwells in you is God's word

God's word is spirit

lets reasd this so you won't make the mistake again of saying what is not when it is
<NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>

1. John 6:63
   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

what did the Lord say here concerning his words?

Jesus words are spirit.

what dwells in us

God's words which is also spirit according to Jesus.

let me ask you this

in Luke what spirit was in the Lord Jesus?
<NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>

1. Luke 4:1
   And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

 

[ozell]

The Holy Spirit intercedes for us. Romans 8:26

Searches our hearts. Romans 8:27

Communicates with us. Acts 13:2

Teaches us all things. John 14:26

Reminds us of scripture. John 14:26

Etc.

david

are you aware that their are many forms of the spirit

lets read

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God words are spirit

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------God's angels are spirit

Psalm 104
<SUP id=en-KJV-15576 class=versenum>4</SUP>Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God's breath is spirit

Job 27
<SUP id=en-KJV-13483 class=versenum>]</SUP>Moreover Job continued his parable, and said,
2 As God liveth, who hath taken away my judgment; and the Almighty, who hath vexed my soul;
3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus is a Spirit

Romans 8
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

I Chronicles 28
8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the LORD, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the LORD your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever.

9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.


Romans 8
<SUP id=en-KJV-28149 class=versenum>32</SUP>He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

<SUP id=en-KJV-28150 class=versenum>33</SUP>Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

<SUP id=en-KJV-28151 class=versenum>34</SUP>Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the Father is a spirit

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Kit Carson]

I just like to keep it simple. You see I made it difficult for myself, I became so wise......yet so dumb.

Does not matter to me God is God, Jesus is Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit left that guides us, the inner spirit that tells us right and wrong and helps us.

So I learned to be just like a child running to A parent and trust. To set aside my own intelligence that is so dumb sometimes.

When you accept Jesus and ask for salvation, it is granted, the Holy spirit helps us maintain this, talks to us, guides us and if we so do bow before Jesus and he acknowledges us to God, and this brings him Glory......so be it.

I will gladly bow before him, and if he wants me to run around in a circle ten times I will do that too.

To me it is now so simple, ask me and I will grant it, listen to me and I will maintain you, and on the day you do meet me, I will speak your name.

I think that is worth a little appreciation and honor to the one who gave his life for us.

Never try to be wiser than God.....not when it is actually so very simple.

My opinion, but what the bible tells me . In the words of Paul, guided by the spirit, we are saved by grace. That to dwell on the old law, or the old testament although fun to read and consider, will cause us to actually become confused and fall from grace. All these discussions about what was, what could have been and what might have been, only serves to create confusion.

Many curious things seem to happen when people cling to the old laws. For example look at the Amish and the situation with the Beard. Just on my mind so use as an example. When you read the Bible and they specific laws about how the Beard is to be worn , even they do not wear it as the Law says, the do trim it in a way that in the time would have been considered wrong, just like people in the modern world make designs in their hair, and wear all manner of things that when we see them cause us to cringe. Like Jesus said, trying to live by the law is impossible.

So we are under grace. All these discussions that mix one with the other, churches and ministers that hold to a mix of the new and the old, simply create enough confusion that it does cause many to simply say..........what a mess, I am not listening to this stuff.......and so it goes.

So for me Jesus gave his life for us, we are accepted by grace. The holy spirit guides us.......that is enough for me. No need to make it anymore complicated than that.


Kit

 

[JonahofAkron]

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

(1 Corinthians 12:5-11)

Still not an answer. Works of the Spirit? I understand that verse 11 discusses how the Spirit works, but these are not the same thing. One is how He operates within us and one is what He has us doing through Him. One precedes the other.

 

[JonahofAkron]

I just like to keep it simple. You see I made it difficult for myself, I became so wise......yet so dumb.

Does not matter to me God is God, Jesus is Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is the spirit left that guides us, the inner spirit that tells us right and wrong and helps us.

So I learned to be just like a child running to A parent and trust. To set aside my own intelligence that is so dumb sometimes.

When you accept Jesus and ask for salvation, it is granted, the Holy spirit helps us maintain this, talks to us, guides us and if we so do bow before Jesus and he acknowledges us to God, and this brings him Glory......so be it.

I will gladly bow before him, and if he wants me to run around in a circle ten times I will do that too.

To me it is now so simple, ask me and I will grant it, listen to me and I will maintain you, and on the day you do meet me, I will speak your name.

I think that is worth a little appreciation and honor to the one who gave his life for us.

Never try to be wiser than God.....not when it is actually so very simple.

My opinion, but what the bible tells me . In the words of Paul, guided by the spirit, we are saved by grace. That to dwell on the old law, or the old testament although fun to read and consider, will cause us to actually become confused and fall from grace. All these discussions about what was, what could have been and what might have been, only serves to create confusion.

Many curious things seem to happen when people cling to the old laws. For example look at the Amish and the situation with the Beard. Just on my mind so use as an example. When you read the Bible and they specific laws about how the Beard is to be worn , even they do not wear it as the Law says, the do trim it in a way that in the time would have been considered wrong, just like people in the modern world make designs in their hair, and wear all manner of things that when we see them cause us to cringe. Like Jesus said, trying to live by the law is impossible.

So we are under grace. All these discussions that mix one with the other, churches and ministers that hold to a mix of the new and the old, simply create enough confusion that it does cause many to simply say..........what a mess, I am not listening to this stuff.......and so it goes.

So for me Jesus gave his life for us, we are accepted by grace. The holy spirit guides us.......that is enough for me. No need to make it anymore complicated than that.


Kit

I disagree that the Law is just 'fun to read'. If Paul says it is necessary for reproof and teaching, I'd have to say that it shouldn't be viewed as detrimental to faith, but instrumental. Just because some truly espouse strange teaching, we should not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[David777]

Hello all.

Law and Grace, an apparent puzzling paradox.

The issue of Law and Grace is a common problem amongst many Christians and Churches.

Some background to the problem, one Old Testament Covenant.

This is one of the Covenants that God established with Israel.

Deuteronomy 4:13
So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform,
the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

There should be no argument that it was the ten commandments that were written on stone.
This was part of a more enhanced covenant between God and Israel, but this will do for now.

Now do the ten commandments apply to Christians?

Read what the apostles had to say on this matter, I paraphrased a little to enhance the clarity
of what is contained in of the book of Acts.

Acts 15

5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed (Pharisees that believed in Jesus) rose up,
saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them (Gentile beleivers), and to command them to
keep the law of Moses.”

This caused much debate, does the Law of Moses apply to the Gentiles that believe in Jesus.
When you consider the problem it is evident that there was tremendous confusion and debate.
What Laws apply to the non circumcised believers? Do Gentiles need to be circumcised?
Which of the Mosaic Laws would be applicable? Which Covenant would apply?

The Jerusalem Council, considered this problem and worked out the solution.

6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.

7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them:
“Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by
my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,

9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither
our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

After the solution had been found the Gentile Churches had to be notified.
This is how the letter to these churches was worded. Please read carefully!

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words,
unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment—

25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.
If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

"no greater burden than the necessary things" what a beautiful statement.
It should be noted that in line 29, three of the four rules (these are not laws) given to the Gentile churches to follow.
Concerned matters that Jews could not tolerate, in essence for the Gentiles there was basically one rule,
that is abstain from sexual immorality. I repeat these were rules not Laws, not Old Covenants.

How easy was it for the Gentiles to believe in Jesus, no burden, no law, no legalism, just avoid sexual immorality.
That did not have to be circumcised, no Ten Commandments, the New Covenant had arrived.
It was confirmed not only by the Apostles but by the Holy Spirit which they testified to.

All the apostles including Paul and Barnabas were in agreement.

What I am perplexed by is that so many Churches including the Catholic Church have included
the Ten Commandments. This is a complete rejection of the advice of the chosen Apostles.
You can read it yourself in Acts chapter 15.

 

[jiggyfly]

Excellent post David, many argue that the ten commandments were not part of the law or the covenant with Israel but Paul clearly spells it out in His one of his letters to the believers @ Corinth.

7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life?9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God!10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way.11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!
2 Cor 3:7-11 (NLT)

Many use the argument that Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law, but they fail to understand that a covenant is a contract between two or more parties. In this case it was between Yahveh and Israel. Even though Israel violated the contract and was no longer binding God Kept His part and He sent His Son to fulfill Israel's part. Thus the contract (covenant) was not abolished but rather fulfilled by Jesus and everyone will see the fruition of the promises to Israel.

 

[Brother Mike]

The Law.

jiggyfly

Many use the argument that Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law, but they fail to understand that a covenant is a contract between two or more parties. In this case it was between Yahveh and Israel. Even though Israel violated the contract and was no longer binding God Kept His part and He sent His Son to fulfill Israel's part. Thus the contract (covenant) was not abolished but rather fulfilled by Jesus and everyone will see the fruition of the promises to Israel.

I never looked at it that way. You interchanged the words Law, and covenant.

The Law of sin and death, A covenant is you do this, I'll do that. They did not do that, but God still did his part. Interesting concept.

God moved us to Branson, we have Bass Pro HQ up the road near Springfield MO. Water falls and a huge encompassing glass aquarium with trout, catfish, and all kinds of things. The Bass Pro in Branson sits on Lake Taney Como. It is also very impressing with large aquarium, boat docks out front.

I often think God made Branson to keep several Sabbath days Holy, with pole in hand.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

I agree Mike.

Like you I saw the Old Covenant as superseded by the New Covenant.

Jiggyfly is right, God kept His side of the Old Covenant and fulfilled it completely.
He is a clever boy that jiggyfly.

 

[David777]

Hello all.

Any legal beagles want to explain Acts 15.

How is it possible to hold on to the old covenant and combine it with the New Covenant.
I do not see how that is possible, I am curious how this one is explained away.