The Diety of Jesus

[Butch5]

@Butch5

It is forgivable to not at first grasp or believe in the trinity. But you need to meditate and pray on it a lot more. You are swimming against the tide of many scriptures and pushing a belief that does incriminate God and mock Christianity.

These are facts of a non - trinitarian belief that any person on the planet with a working brain will conclude. If you disagree, type ''KingJ I disagree with point 1 for this reason.

1. God is not evil.... because He sent Jesus as a ''ransom'' for sin He did not commit. Sending your child as a ransom for a debt you owe to a Mexican cartel exonerates you of being evil!!. Obviously.

2. God does not hate us serving Jesus.....He mistyped that He is jealous and accidentally killed all the Hebrews worshipping the golden calf!!

3. Jesus is not God.....Jesus was just extremely silly to make Himself equal with God? He had the intellect of a Japanese kamikaze pilot!!

4. God is not evil.....Jesus sinned as all humans do, He even said that only God is good Mark 10:18, so He deserved His punishment.

5. So what if 2.4 billion Christians worship and serve Jesus as Lord....the Holy Spirit is quite bad at His one job of teaching us the truth.

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Your comebacks are troll like. Namely:

1. Avoiding direct replies to the direct accusations for fifty posts and still counting.
2. Replying with 'Let's talk about your belief, how does God raise God?'.
3. Google and post the definition of a premise.
4. Try to make the case that God dropping fire and brimstone on Sodom is not God punishing Sodom. Thereby implying that God is unjust and his wrath is random.

--------------------------------

I have dropped a nuclear bomb on your belief and you pick up a tennis racket thinking you are in a tennis match returning a tennis ball. You have turned the discussion into a comedy show.

I've shown more than enough of the asinine conclusions your scenario leads to. It's funny that you keep mentioning a working brain and then post arguments that as absolutely laced with logically fallacies. Your lack of knowledge of the Scriptures is only surpassed by your by your ego.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Rxlx]

5. So what if 2.4 billion Christians worship and serve Jesus as Lord....the Holy Spirit is quite bad at His one job of teaching us the truth.

There are nothing like 2.4 billion Christians on Earth - maybe 500 million. The rest are pagans and False Christians who worship idols.

I think you need to go take a long sleep in a dark room until Jesus returns.

 

[Rxlx]

- Biblical Evidence That Jesus Is Not God: (7, 8 and 9 are the key reasons why Jesus cannot be God)​

1. Jesus Prayed to God – If Jesus were God, why would he pray to Himself? In Matthew 26:39, Jesus prays to the Father, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me.” This shows Jesus and the Father are separate beings.
2. Jesus Called the Father His God – In John 20:17, Jesus says, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” If Jesus has a God, then he himself cannot be God.
3. Jesus Said the Father Is Greater – In John 14:28, Jesus says, “The Father is greater than I.” If Jesus were equal to the Father, he would not say this.
4. Jesus Does Not Know Everything – In Mark 13:32, Jesus says that only the Father knows the day and hour of the end, not even the Son knows. If Jesus were God, he would be all-knowing.
5. The Holy Spirit Is Not Described as Equal to God – The Trinity doctrine claims that the Holy Spirit is a person and is equal to God. However, the Bible never calls the Holy Spirit “God.” Instead, it describes the Holy Spirit as God's active force (Acts 2:17, 18).
6. The Bible Clearly States That God Is One – Deuteronomy 6:4 says, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.” The Bible never teaches that God is three persons in one.
7. Jesus was dependant on God's power – Throughout his ministry, Jesus affirmed that the source of his power was God. He stated, “The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing” (John 5:19). Jesus attributed his miraculous works to God working through him, not any inherent divine powers of his own (John 14:10). This showed Jesus was not operating independently. Jesus’ statement that he did not know the timing of his second coming also indicates limited knowledge, and thus limited powers (Matthew 24:36). As God is omniscient, Jesus’ lack of knowledge on this matter demonstrates he is not fully divine as God is.
8. Jesus is called the “firstborn of all creation” (Colossians 1:15). This means He was the first creature God created.
   
   1. Jesus is called the “only begotten Son” of God (John 3:16). This means Jesus was begotten or brought forth by God.
   2. The Bible says that Jesus was “brought forth” by God before anything was created (Proverbs 8:22-25). This shows Jesus had a beginning.
   3. Jesus is called the “beginning of the creation of God” (Revelation 3:14). This means Jesus was the first being God created.
      
      • These verses make it clear that Jesus had a beginning. He was the first and only direct creation of God. Jesus was begotten and brought forth by God before anything else was created. This proves that Jesus is not eternal like God, but rather He had a beginning.
      • He admitted that without the Father he could “do nothing” (John 5:30).
      • When Jesus healed people, he often said it was their faith that allowed God’s power to act, not his own inherent capabilities (Matthew 9:22; Mark 5:34). Jesus’ dependence on God’s power was evident when he prayed before raising Lazarus from the dead, thanking the Father for hearing him (John 11:41-42).
9. Jesus Died

God cannot die

One of the key reasons why Jesus cannot be God is that God cannot die, yet Jesus died on the cross. As the eternal Creator, God has always existed and will always exist (Psalm 90:2). He is self-existent, immortal, and dwells in unapproachable light (1 Timothy 6:16).

God is spirit (John 4:24), not flesh and bones like humans. Jesus, on the other hand, was fully human. He was born, grew up, got tired, slept, ate, and eventually experienced death. If Jesus were God, then how could he die?

God is eternal and immortal by nature, so it is illogical to believe Jesus was God if he truly died.

The Bible teaches that Jesus’ death on the cross was a real, physical death. After being severely tortured, Jesus “breathed his last” (Luke 23:46), and his spirit left his body. His corpse was then wrapped in burial cloths and placed in a tomb (Luke 23:53).

The soldiers did not even need to break Jesus’ legs to hasten his death because he was certainly dead (John 19:33). Jesus later resurrected from the dead in a glorified, immortal body (Luke 24:39), showing that he had conquered death.

But the fact remains that Jesus died a human death as the Son of God, not as God Himself.

 

[Garee]

I agree. I would submit that the sacrifice or payment is not to God.

The sacrifice is of Christ the Father applied to the sons of God.(Christians)

Jesus is not ashamed to call us brother an sister and mother The law you must be born again( new faith) applied to our brother in the lord Jesus just as us

The Father pouring out his Holy Spirit life on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own Spirit life He gives us little of His faith (power) enough to please him

 

[Rxlx]

That is the most ludicrous statement of all the ludicrous statements ever seen on TJ!
GOD's spirit could never be in jeopardy.
Where do you get these ideas?

 

[Butch5]

The sacrifice is of Christ the Father applied to the sons of God.(Christians)

Jesus is not ashamed to call us brother an sister and mother The law you must be born again( new faith) applied to our brother in the lord Jesus just as us

The Father pouring out his Holy Spirit life on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own Spirit life He gives us little of His faith (power) enough to please him

I'm sorry, I'm not following what you b said.

 

[KingJ]

I've shown more than enough of the asinine conclusions your scenario leads to

You have tried to show 'one' and I debunked it. Addressing it directly and providing a rational rebuttal.

As for your belief, I have shown you five asinine facts which you have not come close to addressing for the last fifty posts. 100% evasion and ostrich syndrome.

. It's funny that you keep mentioning a working brain and then post arguments that as absolutely laced with logically fallacies.

Haha, don't even talk about a working brain. It is insanely hilarious that you think stating ''God is not evil, because Jesus chose to be a ransom, the devil is to blame'' = Good God.

You seem to be unable to grasp three ''duh'' facts.

1. God created all, this includes humans, devil and Jesus.
2. God planned Jesus for the cross before the foundations of the earth.
3. Punishing anyone for sins they did not commit is unjust and therefore evil.

Your lack of knowledge of the Scriptures is only surpassed by your by your ego.

Irony. You have been given over a hundred scriptures supporting the trinity in this thread. See many in my post # 36 alone.

I tried to take a different route with you. Tyring to show you that your belief incriminates God, mocks Jesus and all of Christianity. Christianity is only sane, and God is only good if the trinity is real.

But sadly, you keep to your cherry picked verses and make the most of certain words. You evade all debate and discussion. You profess to grasp God, like you must know where He comes from and how He was made.

You are unteachable, cherry pick scriptures and do not care that you incriminate God with your heretical belief. You don't even try to tackle the accusations in a direct and rational manner.

You therefore completely and utterly fail at your ''one'' job of being an ambassador for Jesus. 2 Cor 5:20. You come across as a clear false teacher.

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I used to think more of you than I do now. If I pushed a belief that someone viewed as something that incriminated God, I would keep quiet and go back to prayer and study. As scripture is CRYSTAL CLEAR that God IS good Psalm 136:1, righteous Psalm 145:17 and just Job 34:12.

Imagine thinking sending your child to pay a massive debt that you created, one where they will sweat blood in anticipation of the pain, is righteous and just, and then talk about a 'working brain'. .....

 

[KingJ]

There are nothing like 2.4 billion Christians on Earth - maybe 500 million. The rest are pagans and False Christians who worship idols.

I think you need to go take a long sleep in a dark room until Jesus returns.

You missed the point made. Please re-read.

 

[KingJ]

I would offer.

The dynamic dual the Father, eternal God not seen made know demonstrated by the son of man Jesus seen. The Holy Father and Son team.

The Messiah (not seen) is Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of the Farther. as Lord of lords is called the one good teaching master or Rabbi.

Luke 18:17-19And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?;And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Christ the mediator works in sons of God his virgin bride the church.

In that way Paul suffered in pains of born again preaching the gospel hoping Christ will be formed in Timothy.

Galatians4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Christian sons of God the chaste virgin bride the church.

Revelation 12:1-2And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Remember as sons of God we are not what we will be.

No reincarnation.

One incorruptible body the chaste virgin (not married) bride the two literally becoming one .

Chaste virgin not having to do with human sex..

Satan the father of the lust of the flesh drawing to lust of the eye the two building blocks of false pride .

Not of our Holy Father in heaven but the lust of this world. the cause of the fall. four words of false prophecy "neither shall you touch"

Therefore, in that parable the tree hidden in the center of the garden. . . the lust of the flesh (I want it now!) moved them to the center opening the eyes by its lust. . touching, not dying both ate from the same what I call almond tree the fruit of rebellion

Not sure what you are trying to say here, sorry. Do you agree or disagree with the trinity?

 

[Rxlx]

You missed the point made. Please re-read.

There are nothing like 2.4 billion Christians on Earth - maybe 500 million. The rest are pagans and False Christians who worship idols.

And you write:
1. God created all, this includes humans, devil and Jesus.
Wrong. GOD and Jesus created humans and angels. The devil is your friend Satan who had wrong think as you do.
2. God planned Jesus for the cross before the foundations of the earth.
Wrong Buy a Bible and read Genesis 1:31 'And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good.' You slander GOD to pander to Satan!
3. Punishing anyone for sins they did not commit is unjust and therefore evil.
GOD Himself killed millions of Canaan's descendants, Moses's Israelites and later allowed Hitler to kill millions more Jews. Most of whom would be women and children innocent of everything except worshippping idols.

I think you need to go take a long sleep in a dark room until Jesus returns.

 

[Garee]

Not sure what you are trying to say here, sorry. Do you agree or disagree with the trinity?

I believe in the duality the Holy Father not seen (eternal God) working in Jesus the Son of man. A man must be born again

Three is a crowd two as a dynamic dual a company.

Why three?

Three is used to denote the end of a matter in parables

 

[KingJ]

There are nothing like 2.4 billion Christians on Earth - maybe 500 million. The rest are pagans and False Christians who worship idols.

The point was that the Holy Spirit teaches them all to serve and worship Jesus.

This would not be the case if Jesus was not God as God is a jealous God.

Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

And you write:
1. God created all, this includes humans, devil and Jesus.
Wrong. GOD and Jesus created humans and angels. The devil is your friend Satan who had wrong think as you do.

God created God the Son. He became flesh. God inseminated Mary Luke 1:26-48.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

2. God planned Jesus for the cross before the foundations of the earth.
Wrong Buy a Bible and read Genesis 1:31 'And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good.' You slander GOD to pander to Satan!

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

3. Punishing anyone for sins they did not commit is unjust and therefore evil.

First try grasp the rationality of the statement. Imagine disagreeing with it. Can I come and put you in prison for a crime you did not commit? Are you ok with that?

GOD Himself killed millions of Canaan's descendants,

When God 'kills, destroys' people and civilisations, it is not always a punishment. He removes people from earth. Punishment from God is mostly reserved for hell. Example. At the time of Noah, all children also died in the flood. Was this God punishing children? No. Children would suffer a swift death and go straight to heaven. The wicked adults were punished in that their evil life came to an end and they lost all contact with their children.

Moses's Israelites and later allowed Hitler to kill millions more Jews.

Israelites sinned and that is why they were punished. Hitler was not ordained by God to kill Jews. Are you crazy?

Most of whom would be women and children innocent of everything except worshippping idols.

When God could, He would spare children and animals. This is quite a bible study though. If anyone else asks for it, I will post more. With you personally, I feel I would be wasting my time.

I think you need to go take a long sleep in a dark room until Jesus returns.

Such loving encouragement from a sister in Christ.

I think you need to, like me and every other Christian on this planet, immediately cease incriminating God, mocking Jesus, Christianity and running down our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

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I have accused you, @BUTCH and @Rhema of pushing a belief that incriminates God, mocks Jesus and all of Christianity.

You three are not dealing with any of the points raised. You merely act like Democrat supporters. Attack, dodge and run from interrogation.

 

[Garee]

The point was that the Holy Spirit teaches them all to serve and worship Jesus.

This would not be the case if Jesus was not God as God is a jealous God

Every word has a meaning assigned that cannot be added to or subtracted from

The word Jesus simply means savior Just like Joshua. or Jehovah eternal God not seen.

The word Christ means anointing teaching master that worked in Jesus the Son of man.

Jesus the savior as Christ not seen worked in Jesus the son of mans flesh .When he departed from this world those who did know Christ that worked in mankind Jesus the son of man. Mankind could never know him according to dying flesh again forevermore.

His earthen body of flesh return to the dust. his born again Spirit returned to the father that worked in Jesus the Son of man.

God is not a Jewish man as King of kings

2 Corinthians 5:16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Rxlx]

My Bible says holy spirit fertiliesd Mary's egg. But you Satanists can claim GOD raped her if it pleases you.

 

[Rxlx]

Quote: With Jesus in mind, the writer of the book of Hebrews quotes part of II Samuel 7:14—showing that the passage is indeed also messianic. “For to

which of the angels did He [God] ever say, ‘You are My Son; this day I have begotten You’? And again, ‘I will be a Father to Him, and He will be a Son to

Me’?” (Heb. 1:5). The fact is, only Christ can ultimately fulfill what is described here in II Samuel 7. Notice: 1) Jesus is of the seed of David (Rom. 1:3); 2)

Jesus built (and is building) a spiritual house, made of living stones (I Peter 2:5); 3) God is truly His father, and Jesus is God’s son; 4) Jesus was

chastened with the “rod of men”—not for His sin, but for our sins; 5) in the Messiah, David’s throne and kingdom will literally be established forever.

 

[Garee]

My Bible says holy spirit fertiliesd Mary's egg. But you Satanists can claim GOD raped her if it pleases you.

I would offer it has nothing to do with human sex. The word virgin is used to represent unmarried or engaged. While in gaged to Josef Mary became pregnant.

The born again power of the father was demonstrated at the resurrection not the fleshy birth

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

It is not to be confused with the doctrine of human sexuality.

Satan the king porn the of lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh the two building blocks of false pride would make it about human sexuality denying the use of the chaste virgin bride like used of Timothy a chaste virgin (not married) in that parable

Paul representing the mother of us all the chaste virgin bride spoken of in Galatians 6

Galatians 4:26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Paul speak of his labor in the Lord. preaching the gospel

Galatian 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Parables must be rightly divided if we seek the spiritual understanding (2 Corinthians 4:18)

In that way as sons of God (Christain's) we are not what we will be when we receive our new born again incorruptible bodies

 

[Rxlx]

I would offer it has nothing to do with human sex. The word virgin is used to represent unmarried or engaged. While in gaged to Josef Mary became pregnant.

The born again power of the father was demonstrated at the resurrection not the fleshy birth

GOD has never been born again.

 

[Butch5]

You have tried to show 'one' and I debunked it. Addressing it directly and providing a rational rebuttal.

As for your belief, I have shown you five asinine facts which you have not come close to addressing for the last fifty posts. 100% evasion and ostrich syndrome.



Haha, don't even talk about a working brain. It is insanely hilarious that you think stating ''God is not evil, because Jesus chose to be a ransom, the devil is to blame'' = Good God.

You seem to be unable to grasp three ''duh'' facts.

1. God created all, this includes humans, devil and Jesus.
2. God planned Jesus for the cross before the foundations of the earth.
3. Punishing anyone for sins they did not commit is unjust and therefore evil.



Irony. You have been given over a hundred scriptures supporting the trinity in this thread. See many in my post # 36 alone.

I tried to take a different route with you. Tyring to show you that your belief incriminates God, mocks Jesus and all of Christianity. Christianity is only sane, and God is only good if the trinity is real.

But sadly, you keep to your cherry picked verses and make the most of certain words. You evade all debate and discussion. You profess to grasp God, like you must know where He comes from and how He was made.

You are unteachable, cherry pick scriptures and do not care that you incriminate God with your heretical belief. You don't even try to tackle the accusations in a direct and rational manner.

You therefore completely and utterly fail at your ''one'' job of being an ambassador for Jesus. 2 Cor 5:20. You come across as a clear false teacher.

-------------

I used to think more of you than I do now. If I pushed a belief that someone viewed as something that incriminated God, I would keep quiet and go back to prayer and study. As scripture is CRYSTAL CLEAR that God IS good Psalm 136:1, righteous Psalm 145:17 and just Job 34:12.

Imagine thinking sending your child to pay a massive debt that you created, one where they will sweat blood in anticipation of the pain, is righteous and just, and then talk about a 'working brain'. .....

Come back when you're willing to address your erroneous premise.

 

[KingJ]

Come back when you're willing to address your erroneous premise.

You said false premise = ''God did not punish Jesus, the devil did'' + ''Jesus chose to be a ransom for our sins'' = Good, just and righteous God.

To which I replied = ''You are moving the goal posts'' + ''Imagine thinking sending your child to pay a massive debt that you created, one where they will sweat blood in anticipation of the pain, is evidence of you being righteous, just and loving''

To which you reply = ''Come back when you're willing to address your erroneous premise.''

This is evasion and wilful ignorance.

--------------------

Also, don't stress, I won't pester you any longer to deal with the other accusations I have raised. I know why you can't even take a stab at them.

Imagine saying ''we must not worship Jesus because He is not God and God is very jealous'' in a Christian religion where the Holy Spirit has 2.4 billion people doing such and on a ''Talk Jesus'' forum.

You need to grasp that you are not dealing with others shining a light on your belief. We can all make mistakes, but we must always be open to correction. I believe you can do better and will come around eventually.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Butch5]

You said false premise = ''God did not punish Jesus, the devil did'' + ''Jesus chose to be a ransom for our sins'' = Good, just and righteous God.

To which I replied = ''You are moving the goal posts'' + ''Imagine thinking sending your child to pay a massive debt that you created, one where they will sweat blood in anticipation of the pain, is evidence of you being righteous, just and loving''

To which you reply = ''Come back when you're willing to address your erroneous premise.''

This is evasion and wilful ignorance.

--------------------

Also, don't stress, I won't pester you any longer to deal with the other accusations I have raised. I know why you can't even take a stab at them.

Imagine saying ''we must not worship Jesus because He is not God and God is very jealous'' in a Christian religion where the Holy Spirit has 2.4 billion people doing such and on a ''Talk Jesus'' forum.

You need to grasp that you are not dealing with others shining a light on your belief. We can all make mistakes, but we must always be open to correction. I believe you can do better and will come around eventually.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Cone back when you're ready to address your false premise