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The deception of the house of God

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Acts 17;24&25
24*God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25*neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.

Acts 7:48-50
48*Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49*Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50*Hath not my hand made all these things?

I think the two scriptures listed above are very clear as to where God does not dwell. Why then do many refer to the building where many christians gather together on sunday as the house of God? So then, if the statement that the church building is the house of God is not true, than it must be false, a deception,a lie.

Proverbs 6:16-19
16* These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17*A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18*An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19*A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Most of the posts concerning homosexualality being an abomination to the Lord maybe of the wrong motivation.
Now don't shout me down yet. Homosexualality is one of several abominations, but it is no better or worse than any of the others.

Luke 6:39-42
39*Then Jesus gave the following illustration: “What good is it for one blind person to lead another? The first one will fall into a ditch and pull the other down also. 40*A student is not greater than the teacher. But the student who works hard will become like the teacher.
41*“And why worry about a speck in your friend’s eye* when you have a log in your own? 42*How can you think of saying, ‘Friend,* let me help you get rid of that speck in your eye,’ when you can’t see past the log in your own eye? Hypocrite! First get rid of the log from your own eye; then perhaps you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend’s eye.

Religious attitude is blinding and very dangerous. OK one last scripture to show my motive is not anti-institution( even though I no longer participate in organized religious meetings). My motive is love.

1Corithians 13;4-7
4*Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5*or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. 6*It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
 
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Jiggyfly . I agree with you 100 % . But I do think that the love and patience point has been made . Gods said after the flood that he will not strive with our rebellions forever ! I will continue to seperate the sin from the person in this subject . God Bless you brother . Mike
 
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I no longer go to a local church either. I can't begin to tell you all the ways the Lord has moved in my life the last past 3 or 4 years, since He brought me to where I am currently. But, I use to think that if I didn't go to church every Sunday I would split Hell wide open. Man taught me real good. The worse things I've ever done were when I went to so called church every Sunday. I no longer care what my fellow man thinks about me and the going to church regularly subject. Ever once on a while I will think that I'm in sin because I don't have go, but it's strange that the Lord always brings me back to the scripture, that He is Lord of the sabbath. I want to have church with Him everyday. I thank Hiim for what he has done for me in this area. My husband was saved when the Lord took me out of it. Sometimes, the Lord will tell me that He wants me to go and He always makes me able to obey Him. I mean that I have a 7 days a week job, so sometimes I just don't feel able to go. I'm not getting any younger. .......jmh137
 
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jmh137 said:
I no longer go to a local church either. I can't begin to tell you all the ways the Lord has moved in my life the last past 3 or 4 years, since He brought me to where I am currently. But, I use to think that if I didn't go to church every Sunday I would split Hell wide open. Man taught me real good. The worse things I've ever done were when I went to so called church every Sunday. I no longer care what my fellow man thinks about me and the going to church regularly subject. Ever once on a while I will think that I'm in sin because I don't have go, but it's strange that the Lord always brings me back to the scripture, that He is Lord of the sabbath. I want to have church with Him everyday. I thank Hiim for what he has done for me in this area. My husband was saved when the Lord took me out of it. Sometimes, the Lord will tell me that He wants me to go and He always makes me able to obey Him. I mean that I have a 7 days a week job, so sometimes I just don't feel able to go. I'm not getting any younger. .......jmh137
Praise God! There are many ways to meet with brothers and sisters in the Body without having to attend a religious cerimony. My wife and I let the meeting be a spontaneous act of the Holy Spirit and it's amazingly powerful when it happens. God bless
 
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"The Gates of Hell shall not Prevail against it."

It is of an immense importants that that we, creatures, made to the image and likeness of God, in that we are rational beings, should use that rationality in investigating truthfully and honestly the way in which history and the Church has unfolded. For there is more to understanding scriptures than just reading scriptures, there is also oral tradition as Saint Paul attests to.

We must also examine the way in wich the successors of the apostles viewed the Church for as one starts to look closely at the word from the writings of the early Church Fathers, we will start to see that what is contained in their held to, body of doctrine is one in the same those doctrines held by the very same Catholic Church.

We as Christians are not free to choose the doctrines which better suit our convenience, for we are bound to adhere to the truth, whatsoever that may entail. We must also investigate the origin of our accepted cannon of scripture. Who decided which books belong in the Bible and which books did not, for as we know from the poisonous, gnostic(gospels)which are fueling the media with outright haresy, whoever was responsible for establishing the cannon of Scripture ,must have had God given authority to do so, and we would be bound to to the teachings of those men, as well as to the Word of God which they decided what was and what was not inspired.

It is a historical fact, and undeniable truth, that in the 400s, AD ,the Catholic Church was responsible for fulfilling this task. This evidence can be found,in in a vast plentitude and so such proof can be easily accessable to the humble soul. Thus the matter comes up, if the Catholic Church has the Authority from Jesus Christ Himself, to have decided what books belong in the Bible,wouldnt it also have the Authority, from Our Lord, to teach what man must believe and do and avoid in order to be saved? For by accepting the Authority of the bible we implicitly, if not explicitly accept that the Catholic Church has Authority, for its mission is the salvation of souls.

There exists in Christianity a great division that was not so in the 2nd,3rd,4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,9th,10,11th,12,13,and 14th,centuries. For up until the 15th century One Church for which all men can be saved was recognised as the One True Church, the very same established by Christ opon the Apostle Peter, the first Pope of the Catholic Church. Unto this very day the Church can trace that same succession from the Pope of this day all the way back in an unbroken succession to St. Peter who is currently buried under the present day Vatican, along with St. Paul, and several other of the Apostles, along with hundreds of other Saints who with their very lives have proclaimed their belief and certainty in the claims of the Catholic Church.

If this be the Truth, that Our Lord actually instituted only The Catholic Church, as history itself supports, we need to know what that Church teaches regarding salvation. Some of what it teaches at first glance may be hard to accept, but if such is true, the what choice do we have, for Our Lord told His Apostles,
"He who accepts you accepts Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who has sent Me." To view writings of the early Church Fathers please visit www.catholic.com.

I am a Christian,
for all Catholics are Christians.

Please do not disregaurd this post because of its position. It is in accordance with the terms of agreement
and if such fails to be posted, it would be seen as decriminitory. For sometimes we must get shaken regarding our beliefs and face tugh situations for the greater Glory of God, in time and eternity. Such words surely proceed from charity,Glory be to the Father, and to The Son,and to The Holy Ghost,as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end.

Immaculate Mary, Mother of God, Concieved without sin,
pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

A.Zapata - 22
 
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Soldier of God said:
I would say deception goes on in this house now. This is not a foundation for young people to build on or the lost for that matter. You can believe in Jesus and not attend Church. And the anology goes...If a man practices to be a doctor, becomes one and starts his own practice. Continues 20 years accepting no help and accepting no new learning tools and instruction from others. I dont want him operating on me or in me if you will. Why would you condone this choice arrogantly? Post well and share, but that practice is dangerous for much more than is it safe. Church is important, some may not attent for various reasons and that may be fine. But to not go and boast is not. God bless all


USE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS - I Corinthians 12 makes it clear that God has given spiritual gifts to every Christian. And verse 7 states unmistakably that these abilities are not provided to make you feel good; they are abilities to minister that should be used for the common good! I Peter 4:10 commands us to use spiritual gifts to help each other.
The same passage makes it clear that we meet with other Christians so they can use their gifts to strengthen us. God's gift of a preacher or teacher is wasted if no one comes to hear them speak.


MUTUAL MINISTRY - The church is pictured as a body in I Corinthians 12, and Paul explains that each part of the body exists to meet the needs of other body parts. In the same way, God intends each of us to meet the needs of other believers, using our strengths to help in their areas of weakness. I Corinthians 12:21 expresses it this way: "The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you." Neither can a Christian claim to be self-sufficient today.
The New Testament is full of "one another" commands. We are to comfort one another (I Thessalonians 4:18), build up one another (I Thessalonians 5:11), confess our sins to one another (James 5:16), pray for one another (James 5:16), and many more. How can we obey these directives if we stay away from the gathering of believers?


ACCOUNTABILITY - God designed the church as a place where spiritual leaders could watch out for our welfare, as a shepherd guards the sheep (I Peter 5:1-4; Hebrews 13:17). A Christian who answers only to himself can easily rationalize sinful attitudes or actions; regular contact with other Christians can keep us sharp.
A single verse should actually be sufficient answer for this question: Hebrews 10:25 warns its readers against "forsaking the assembly of yourselves together, as the manner of some is."
Where in the word of God does it say you must gather together In a religious cerimony for it to be considered a ekklesia, I for one would like to know. I f you would study church history you would find one very important FACT. There was NO specific church buildings until the mid to later part of the fourth century and FACT, there was NO such thing as clregy/laity system, it was addopted from pagan/ false religion.
So i guess that the first several generations of christians were just babies and in error. I don't know why you think that I am in error but you need to bring Truth. No one needs to participate in liturgy to grow and mature in the body of Christ. I don't think you are ready to confront this with me, so for your sake and mine and the sake of others please back off. I love you with the love of Christ but i won't compromise the Truth to appease you or anyone else.
 
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The Catholic Church bases her teaching upon one source: The word of God. This divine revelation is transmitted in two ways: through Scripture and apostolic tradition. Many assume that only the writings of the apostles are the word of God. However, their oral transmission of the faith is also considered the word of God (1 Thess. 2:13). Few Protestant groups today accept the validity, let alone the authority, of tradition. In fact, many believe that Scripture is the only definitive source of divine truth. For this reason, they are critical of certain doctrines of the Catholic Church, which, according to them, have no basis in Scripture. In fact, those who embrace the theory of sola scriptura attempt to use the Bible to contradict, to prove baseless, certain Church teachings, such as the Real Presence and the existence of purgatory. However, these teachings are reflected in Scripture, as the passages we will look at illustrate.

Our purpose here is not to dissect the opposition. Rather, our purpose is to provide a scriptural evidence for these doctrines. Under each Catholic doctrine in the list that follows are passages from Scripture that witness to the doctrine’s divine origin. For the Catholic, what follows will make clear the harmony of Scripture and tradition: truth cannot contradict truth. Whether God speaks to us through the Bible or through the voice of tradition, the word spoken is always a true and steadfast guide.

Please note that all scriptural citations are taken from the Revised Standard Version: Catholic Edition of the Holy Bible.


Scripture and Tradition



"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2).

"Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (2 Tim. 1:13-14).

"So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." (2 Thess. 2:15)

"You, then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:1-2).

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:20-21).

"‘Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete" (2 John 12).


Faith and Works



"‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 7:21).

"‘Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you?’" (Luke 6:46).

"For he will render every man according to his works . . ." (Rom. 2:6-8).

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified" (Rom. 2:13).

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?" (Jas. 2:14).

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (Jas. 2:17).

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24).


The Trinity



"Then God said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . .’" (Gen. 1:26).

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19).

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

"But Peter said, ‘Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.’" (Acts 5:3-4)

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" (2 Cor. 13:14).


Christ’s Divinity



"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called ‘Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace’" (Is. 9:6).

"Simon Peter replied, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven’" (Matt. 16:16-17).

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

"Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58).

"‘I and the Father are one’" (John 10:30).

"For in him [Christ] the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily" (Col. 2:9).

"In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power . . ." (Heb. 1:1-3).

"But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. . . . And, "Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands." (Heb. 1:8, 10)


Real Presence in the Eucharist



"‘Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Truly truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed’" (John 6:47-55).

"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, ‘This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant of my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.’ For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes" (1 Cor. 11:23-26).

"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27).


The Papacy



"And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter . . ." (Matt. 10:1-2).

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven’" (Matt. 16:18-19).

"‘Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren’" (Luke 22:31-32).

"He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, ‘So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas’ (which means Peter)" (John 1:42).

"When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Feed my lambs.’ A second time he said to him, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Tend my sheep.’ He said to him the third time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ And he said to him, ‘Lord, you know that I love you.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Feed my sheep’" (John 21:15-17).


Purgatory



"For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin" (2 Macc. 12:44-45).

"Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny" (Matt. 5:25-26).

"Each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor. 3:13-15).

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey . . ." (1 Peter 3:18-20).

"But nothing unclean shall enter it [heaven] . . ." (Rev. 21:27).


Honor Due to the Virgin Mary



"And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’" (Luke 1:41-43).

"And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name’" (Luke 1:46-49).

"If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together" (1 Cor. 12:26).


Praying to the Saints



"‘And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God said to him, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"? He is not God of the dead, but of the living . . .’" (Mark 12:26-27)

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely . . ." (Heb. 12:1).

"And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).


NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
 
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Apostolic Tradition


Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.

Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).

To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.

The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.


Papias



"Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).


Eusebius of Caesarea



"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).


Irenaeus



"As I said before, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although she is disseminated throughout the whole world, yet guarded it, as if she occupied but one house. She likewise believes these things just as if she had but one soul and one and the same heart; and harmoniously she proclaims them and teaches them and hands them down, as if she possessed but one mouth. For, while the languages of the world are diverse, nevertheless, the authority of the tradition is one and the same" (Against Heresies 1:10:2 [A.D. 189]).

"That is why it is surely necessary to avoid them [heretics], while cherishing with the utmost diligence the things pertaining to the Church, and to lay hold of the tradition of truth. . . . What if the apostles had not in fact left writings to us? Would it not be necessary to follow the order of tradition, which was handed down to those to whom they entrusted the churches?" (ibid., 3:4:1).

...

"It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known throughout the whole world. And we are in a position to enumerate those who were instituted bishops by the apostles and their successors to our own times—men who neither knew nor taught anything like these heretics rave about.

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles.

"With this church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree—that is, all the faithful in the whole world—and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition" (ibid., 3:3:1–2).


Clement of Alexandria



"Well, they preserving the tradition of the blessed doctrine derived directly from the holy apostles, Peter, James, John, and Paul, the sons receiving it from the father (but few were like the fathers), came by God’s will to us also to deposit those ancestral and apostolic seeds. And well I know that they will exult; I do not mean delighted with this tribute, but solely on account of the preservation of the truth, according as they delivered it. For such a sketch as this, will, I think, be agreeable to a soul desirous of preserving from loss the blessed tradition" (Miscellanies 1:1 [A.D. 208]).


Origen



"Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).


Cyprian of Carthage



"[T]he Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop Fabian by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way" (Letters 75:3 [A.D. 253]).


Athanasius



"Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven" (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]).

"But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able" (ibid., 29).


Basil the Great



"Of the dogmas and messages preserved in the Church, some we possess from written teaching and others we receive from the tradition of the apostles, handed on to us in mystery. In respect to piety, both are of the same force. No one will contradict any of these, no one, at any rate, who is even moderately versed in matters ecclesiastical. Indeed, were we to try to reject unwritten customs as having no great authority, we would unwittingly injure the gospel in its vitals; or rather, we would reduce [Christian] message to a mere term" (The Holy Spirit 27:66 [A.D. 375]).


Epiphanius of Salamis



"It is needful also to make use of tradition, for not everything can be gotten from sacred Scripture. The holy apostles handed down some things in the scriptures, other things in tradition" (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 61:6 [A.D. 375]).


Augustine



"[T]he custom [of not rebaptizing converts] . . . may be supposed to have had its origin in apostolic tradition, just as there are many things which are observed by the whole Church, and therefore are fairly held to have been enjoined by the apostles, which yet are not mentioned in their writings" (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 5:23[31] [A.D. 400]).

"But the admonition that he [Cyprian] gives us, ‘that we should go back to the fountain, that is, to apostolic tradition, and thence turn the channel of truth to our times,’ is most excellent, and should be followed without hesitation" (ibid., 5:26[37]).

"But in regard to those observances which we carefully attend and which the whole world keeps, and which derive not from Scripture but from Tradition, we are given to understand that they are recommended and ordained to be kept, either by the apostles themselves or by plenary [ecumenical] councils, the authority of which is quite vital in the Church" (Letter to Januarius [A.D. 400]).


John Chrysostom



"[Paul commands,] ‘Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word or by our letter’ [2 Thess. 2:15]. From this it is clear that they did not hand down everything by letter, but there is much also that was not written. Like that which was written, the unwritten too is worthy of belief. So let us regard the tradition of the Church also as worthy of belief. Is it a tradition? Seek no further" (Homilies on Second Thessalonians [A.D. 402]).


Vincent of Lerins



"With great zeal and closest attention, therefore, I frequently inquired of many men, eminent for their holiness and doctrine, how I might, in a concise and, so to speak, general and ordinary way, distinguish the truth of the Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity.

"I received almost always the same answer from all of them—that if I or anyone else wanted to expose the frauds and escape the snares of the heretics who rise up, and to remain intact and in sound faith, it would be necessary, with the help of the Lord, to fortify that faith in a twofold manner: first, of course, by the authority of divine law [Scripture] and then by the tradition of the Catholic Church.

"Here, perhaps, someone may ask: ‘If the canon of the scriptures be perfect and in itself more than suffices for everything, why is it necessary that the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation be joined to it?’ Because, quite plainly, sacred Scripture, by reason of its own depth, is not accepted by everyone as having one and the same meaning. . . .

"Thus, because of so many distortions of such various errors, it is highly necessary that the line of prophetic and apostolic interpretation be directed in accord with the norm of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning" (The Notebooks [A.D. 434]).


Pope Agatho



"[T]he holy Church of God . . . has been established upon the firm rock of this Church of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, which by his grace and guardianship remains free from all error, [and possesses that faith that] the whole number of rulers and priests, of the clergy and of the people, unanimously should confess and preach with us as the true declaration of the apostolic tradition, in order to please God and to save their own souls" (Letter read at fourth session of III Constantinople [A.D. 680]).
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Alvaro Zapata said:
It is of an immense importants that that we, creatures, made to the image and likeness of God, in that we are rational beings, should use that rationality in investigating truthfully and honestly the way in which history and the Church has unfolded. For there is more to understanding scriptures than just reading scriptures, there is also oral tradition as Saint Paul attests to.

We must also examine the way in wich the successors of the apostles viewed the Church for as one starts to look closely at the word from the writings of the early Church Fathers, we will start to see that what is contained in their held to, body of doctrine is one in the same those doctrines held by the very same Catholic Church.

We as Christians are not free to choose the doctrines which better suit our convenience, for we are bound to adhere to the truth, whatsoever that may entail. We must also investigate the origin of our accepted cannon of scripture. Who decided which books belong in the Bible and which books did not, for as we know from the poisonous, gnostic(gospels)which are fueling the media with outright haresy, whoever was responsible for establishing the cannon of Scripture ,must have had God given authority to do so, and we would be bound to to the teachings of those men, as well as to the Word of God which they decided what was and what was not inspired.

It is a historical fact, and undeniable truth, that in the 400s, AD ,the Catholic Church was responsible for fulfilling this task. This evidence can be found,in in a vast plentitude and so such proof can be easily accessable to the humble soul. Thus the matter comes up, if the Catholic Church has the Authority from Jesus Christ Himself, to have decided what books belong in the Bible,wouldnt it also have the Authority, from Our Lord, to teach what man must believe and do and avoid in order to be saved? For by accepting the Authority of the bible we implicitly, if not explicitly accept that the Catholic Church has Authority, for its mission is the salvation of souls.

There exists in Christianity a great division that was not so in the 2nd,3rd,4th,5th,6th,7th,8th,9th,10,11th,12,13,and 14th,centuries. For up until the 15th century One Church for which all men can be saved was recognised as the One True Church, the very same established by Christ opon the Apostle Peter, the first Pope of the Catholic Church. Unto this very day the Church can trace that same succession from the Pope of this day all the way back in an unbroken succession to St. Peter who is currently buried under the present day Vatican, along with St. Paul, and several other of the Apostles, along with hundreds of other Saints who with their very lives have proclaimed their belief and certainty in the claims of the Catholic Church.

If this be the Truth, that Our Lord actually instituted only The Catholic Church, as history itself supports, we need to know what that Church teaches regarding salvation. Some of what it teaches at first glance may be hard to accept, but if such is true, the what choice do we have, for Our Lord told His Apostles,
"He who accepts you accepts Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who has sent Me." To view writings of the early Church Fathers please visit www.catholic.com.

I am a Christian,
for all Catholics are Christians.

Please do not disregaurd this post because of its position. It is in accordance with the terms of agreement
and if such fails to be posted, it would be seen as decriminitory. For sometimes we must get shaken regarding our beliefs and face tugh situations for the greater Glory of God, in time and eternity. Such words surely proceed from charity,Glory be to the Father, and to The Son,and to The Holy Ghost,as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end.

Immaculate Mary, Mother of God, Concieved without sin,
pray for us now and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

A.Zapata - 22
To each his own
 
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Peter the Rock


One of the points I try to emphasize when giving a seminar is that you can begin to be an effective apologist right away; you don’t have to wait until you become a theological whiz. Just work with what you know, even if it’s only one fact.

I illustrate this from my own experience, and you can use this technique the next time you have verses thrown at you by an anti-Catholic.

Some years ago, before I took a real interest in reading the Bible, I tried to avoid missionaries who came to the door. I had been burned too often. Why open the door, or why prolong the conversation (if they caught me outside the house), when I had nothing to say?

Sure, I had a Bible. I used it perhaps the way you use yours today: to catch dust that otherwise would gather on the top shelf of the bookcase. It was one of those "family" Bibles, crammed with beautiful color plates and so heavy that my son didn’t outweigh it until he turned five.

As I said, I had a Bible, but I didn’t turn to it much; so I had little to say about the Bible when missionaries cornered me. I didn’t know to which verses I should refer when explaining the Catholic position.

For a layman, I suppose I was reasonably well informed about my faith—at least I never doubted it or ceased to practice it—but my own reading had not equipped me for verbal duels.

Then, one day, I came across a nugget of information that sent a shock wave through the next missionary who rang the bell and that proved to me that becoming skilled in apologetics isn’t really all that difficult. Here’s what happened.

When I answered the door, the lone missionary introduced himself as a Seventh-Day Adventist. He asked if he could "share" with me some insights from the Bible. I told him to go ahead.

He flipped from one page to another, quoting this verse and that, trying to demonstrate the errors of the Church of Rome and the manifest truth of his own denomination’s position.


Not much to say



Some of the verses I had encountered before. I wasn’t entirely illiterate with respect to the Bible, but many verses were new to me. Whether familiar or not, the verses elicited no response from me, because I didn’t know enough about the Bible to respond effectively.

Finally the missionary got to Matthew 16:18: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church."

"Hold it right there!" I said. "I know that verse. That’s where Jesus appointed Simon the earthly head of the Church. That’s where he appointed him the first pope." I paused and smiled broadly, knowing what the missionary would say in response.

I knew he usually didn’t get any defense of the Catholic position at all as he went door to door, but sometimes a Catholic would speak up as I had. He had a reply, and I knew what it would be, and I was ready for it.

"I understand your thinking," he said, "but you Catholics misunderstand this verse because you don’t know any Greek. That’s the trouble with your Church and with your scholars. You people don’t know the language in which the New Testament was written. To understand Matthew 16:18, we have to get behind the English to the Greek."

"Is that so?" I said, leading him on. I pretended to be ignorant of the trap being laid for me.

"Yes," he said. "In Greek, the word for rock is petra, which means a large, massive stone. The word used for Simon’s new name is different; it’s Petros, which means a little stone, a pebble."

In reality, what the missionary was telling me at this point was false. As Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant "small stone" and "large rock" in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant "rock." If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used. The missionary’s argument didn’t work and showed a faulty knowledge of Greek. (For an Evangelical Protestant Greek scholar’s admission of this, see D. A. Carson, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984], Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., 8:368).

"You Catholics," the missionary continued, "because you don’t know Greek, imagine that Jesus was equating Simon and the rock. Actually, of course, it was just the opposite. He was contrasting them. On the one side, the rock on which the Church would be built, Jesus himself; on the other, this mere pebble. Jesus was really saying that he himself would be the foundation, and he was emphasizing that Simon wasn’t remotely qualified to be it."

"Case closed," he thought.

It was the missionary’s turn to pause and smile broadly. He had followed the training he had been given. He had been told that a rare Catholic might have heard of Matthew 16:18 and might argue that it proved the establishment of the papacy. He knew what he was supposed to say to prove otherwise, and he had said it.

"Well," I replied, beginning to use that nugget of information I had come across, "I agree with you that we must get behind the English to the Greek." He smiled some more and nodded. "But I’m sure you’ll agree with me that we must get behind the Greek to the Aramaic."

"The what?" he asked.

"The Aramaic," I said. "As you know, Aramaic was the language Jesus and the apostles and all the Jews in Palestine spoke. It was the common language of the place."

"I thought Greek was."

"No," I answered. "Many, if not most of them, knew Greek, of course, because Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean world. It was the language of culture and commerce; and most of the books of the New Testament were written in it, because they were written not just for Christians in Palestine but also for Christians in places such as Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch, places where Aramaic wasn’t the spoken language.

"I say most of the New Testament was written in Greek, but not all. Many hold that Matthew was written in Aramaic—we know this from records kept by Eusebius of Caesarea—but it was translated into Greek early on, perhaps by Matthew himself. In any case the Aramaic original is lost (as are all the originals of the New Testament books), so all we have today is the Greek."

I stopped for a moment and looked at the missionary. He seemed a bit uncomfortable, perhaps doubting that I was a Catholic because I seemed to know what I was talking about. I continued.


Aramaic in the New Testament



"We know that Jesus spoke Aramaic because some of his words are preserved for us in the Gospels. Look at Matthew 27:46, where he says from the cross, ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’ That isn’t Greek; it’s Aramaic, and it means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’

"What’s more," I said, "in Paul’s epistles—four times in Galatians and four times in 1 Corinthians—we have the Aramaic form of Simon’s new name preserved for us. In our English Bibles it comes out as Cephas. That isn’t Greek. That’s a transliteration of the Aramaic word Kepha (rendered as Kephas in its Hellenistic form).

"And what does Kepha mean? It means a rock, the same as petra. (It doesn’t mean a little stone or a pebble. What Jesus said to Simon in Matthew 16:18 was this: ‘You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.’

"When you understand what the Aramaic says, you see that Jesus was equating Simon and the rock; he wasn’t contrasting them. We see this vividly in some modern English translations, which render the verse this way: ‘You are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.’ In French one word, pierre, has always been used both for Simon’s new name and for the rock."

For a few moments the missionary seemed stumped. It was obvious he had never heard such a rejoinder. His brow was knit in thought as he tried to come up with a counter. Then it occurred to him.

"Wait a second," he said. "If kepha means the same as petra, why don’t we read in the Greek, ‘You are Petra, and on this petra I will build my Church’? Why, for Simon’s new name, does Matthew use a Greek word, Petros, which means something quite different from petra?"

"Because he had no choice," I said. "Greek and Aramaic have different grammatical structures. In Aramaic you can use kepha in both places in Matthew 16:18. In Greek you encounter a problem arising from the fact that nouns take differing gender endings.

"You have masculine, feminine, and neuter nouns. The Greek word petra is feminine. You can use it in the second half of Matthew 16:18 without any trouble. But you can’t use it as Simon’s new name, because you can’t give a man a feminine name—at least back then you couldn’t. You have to change the ending of the noun to make it masculine. When you do that, you get Petros, which was an already-existing word meaning rock.

"I admit that’s an imperfect rendering of the Aramaic; you lose part of the play on words. In English, where we have ‘Peter’ and ‘rock,’ you lose all of it. But that’s the best you can do in Greek."

Beyond the grammatical evidence, the structure of the narrative does not allow for a downplaying of Peter’s role in the Church. Look at the way Matthew 16:15-19 is structured. After Peter gives a confession about the identity of Jesus, the Lord does the same in return for Peter. Jesus does not say, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are an insignificant pebble and on this rock I will build my Church. . . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven." Jesus is giving Peter a three-fold blessing, including the gift of the keys to the kingdom, not undermining his authority. To say that Jesus is downplaying Peter flies in the face of the context. Jesus is installing Peter as a form of chief steward or prime minister under the King of Kings by giving him the keys to the kingdom. As can be seen in Isaiah 22:22, kings in the Old Testament appointed a chief steward to serve under them in a position of great authority to rule over the inhabitants of the kingdom. Jesus quotes almost verbatum from this passage in Isaiah, and so it is clear what he has in mind. He is raising Peter up as a father figure to the household of faith (Is. 22:21), to lead them and guide the flock (John 21:15-17). This authority of the prime minister under the king was passed on from one man to another down through the ages by the giving of the keys, which were worn on the shoulder as a sign of authority. Likewise, the authority of Peter has been passed down for 2000 years by means of the papacy.


My turn to pause



I stopped and smiled. The missionary smiled back uncomfortably, but said nothing. We exchanged smiles for about thirty seconds. Then he looked at his watch, noticed how time had flown, and excused himself. I never saw him again.

So what came of this encounter? Two things—one for me, one for him.

I began to develop a sense of confidence. I began to see that I could defend my faith if I engaged in a little homework. The more homework, the better the defense.

I realized that any literate Catholic—including you—could do the same. You don’t have to suspect your faith might be untrue when you can’t come up with an answer to a pointed question.

Once you develop a sense of confidence, you can say to yourself, "I may not know the answer to that, but I know I could find the answer if I hit the books. The answer is there, if only I spend the time to look for it."

And what about the missionary? Did he go away with anything? I think so. I think he went away with a doubt regarding his understanding (or lack of understanding) of Catholics and the Catholic faith. I hope his doubt has since matured into a sense that maybe, just maybe, Catholics have something to say on behalf of their religion and that he should look more carefully into the Faith he once so confidently opposed.
 
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Soldier of God said:
I would say deception goes on in this house now. This is not a foundation for young people to build on or the lost for that matter. You can believe in Jesus and not attend Church. And the anology goes...If a man practices to be a doctor, becomes one and starts his own practice. Continues 20 years accepting no help and accepting no new learning tools and instruction from others. I dont want him operating on me or in me if you will. Why would you condone this choice arrogantly? Post well and share, but that practice is dangerous for much more than is it safe. Church is important, some may not attent for various reasons and that may be fine. But to not go and boast is not. God bless all


USE OF SPIRITUAL GIFTS - I Corinthians 12 makes it clear that God has given spiritual gifts to every Christian. And verse 7 states unmistakably that these abilities are not provided to make you feel good; they are abilities to minister that should be used for the common good! I Peter 4:10 commands us to use spiritual gifts to help each other.
The same passage makes it clear that we meet with other Christians so they can use their gifts to strengthen us. God's gift of a preacher or teacher is wasted if no one comes to hear them speak.


MUTUAL MINISTRY - The church is pictured as a body in I Corinthians 12, and Paul explains that each part of the body exists to meet the needs of other body parts. In the same way, God intends each of us to meet the needs of other believers, using our strengths to help in their areas of weakness. I Corinthians 12:21 expresses it this way: "The eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you." Neither can a Christian claim to be self-sufficient today.
The New Testament is full of "one another" commands. We are to comfort one another (I Thessalonians 4:18), build up one another (I Thessalonians 5:11), confess our sins to one another (James 5:16), pray for one another (James 5:16), and many more. How can we obey these directives if we stay away from the gathering of believers?


ACCOUNTABILITY - God designed the church as a place where spiritual leaders could watch out for our welfare, as a shepherd guards the sheep (I Peter 5:1-4; Hebrews 13:17). A Christian who answers only to himself can easily rationalize sinful attitudes or actions; regular contact with other Christians can keep us sharp.
A single verse should actually be sufficient answer for this question: Hebrews 10:25 warns its readers against "forsaking the assembly of yourselves together, as the manner of some is."
Please define church soldier, maybe alvaro zapata and you share the same theology.
 
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Just to set the record straight, I wasn't bragging about not going to church. On the other hand I will not say I am sorry for what I know happened to me. I am not bound by what man thinks that I should be bound to. I am bound to Christ Jesus. I have heard it said before (some one made the statement) I love the Church of God, but I love the God of the church more. I will not advise any young person or any one of any age not to go to church. But the Church is not the building. That was one reason they hated Christ so much. He said that he could tear down the building and in three days rebuild it. They didn't understand it then and apparently some don't understand it now. The Lord said where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there. I have seen situtations where the only way some knew the Lord was because they went to church on Sunday and for them it is a must to keep going, if they will not read the Word and try to fellowship with God in a daily walk. Going to church will save no one only Christ Jesus will.
 
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pergatory. sinless mary and all the rest of the catholic religious lies will not save the millions who have died in that Great deception.

constantines dirty little harlot will not inherit eternity.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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Adstar said:
pergatory. sinless mary and all the rest of the catholic religious lies will not save the millions who have died in that Great deception.

constantines dirty little harlot will not inherit eternity.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days
I aggree ! I think I'll go rest my eye's now ! That thread was endless . Brother Mike
 
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Can I interject something here....


First to Alvaro - Christians do not pray to Mary, not venerate her in any way.
Our God is a jealous God, and He will not share His glory with another.


Soldier - Brother, you seem to have confused God`s 'church' with a building.
Even further, you seem to be implying that those who do not regard the 'church' as a building, are deceived? :confused:
 
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Soldier of God said:
Not all the church may be perfect
None of us are perfect.

but when I gave myself to Jesus it was in my entirety.
I hope we can all attest to that

I minister when called at work,that is our duty.
Amen.

We invite friends over and fellowship, that is our duty.
Amen.

I cannot except that this is all I may offer.
I must pay my tithes good church or bad for God knows where they go.
False. (according to the Word of God)

Communion, at least at Covenant Christian where I attend proudly, is a beautiful remembrance of Jesus and what he sacrificed.
Communion is ordained of God, Pride is an abomination to God.

Yes a coke and a nab is good but I owe Jesus so much more than that. See laziness or conspiricies are for men who dont lead.
If we may lead by the Word,and the word is truth, we must reach out in everyday scenarios aswell as contributing to the body of Christ. Listen conspiricy makers!!!!!
What is this conspiracy you speak off?


There are about 50 kids who love Jesus counting on us as adults to provide them a wonderful show at our Church. For 4 days of learning and rejoicing in the Lord. Why do we owe them this show, they gave us one and we learned how beautiful kids in Christ are.
I have no idea what you mean by a "show", but yes the children must be taught about Jesus.

I owe them myself, I owe them Jesus, I owe them life. Sitting at home on my false pedestal will not get this job done.Only hard work!!!! Praise God for that!!!!!!!!
Now please tell me why a man or woman, who does`nt belong to a particular organization, or attend some organized meeting cannot do what you are doing, and then some :confused:
 
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Soldier of God said:
We will talk about this with reason if we may. Dont apologize for not going just dont say Praise God about not going. Nothing to glorify. I speak truth, show me scripture stating the negativity of church. Can you? There is only one Word.

Another view,


The one rebuke in the NT for not 'going to church' is on precisely this ground: 'Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another - and all the more as you see the Day approaching' (Hebrews 10.25).

Teaching is crucial because on Sunday morning we are in the construction business, not the religion business. Paul made this the priority for Timothy, his deputy and his successor in the ministry: 'Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching.' (1 Timothy 4.13).

Now I am not talking about the people who are unable to go to church but people who are able to go to church. Some people make lame excuses for not going to church. You may see someone who is healthy all week but always sick Sunday morning. God is not mocked (Gal. 6:7). God can see through our lame excuses and will judge each of us according to our works (Rev. 20:13).

In Hebrews, Paul gives us two closely associated reasons regarding the importance of assembling with the saints. First, it is important to assemble because of Jesus (His blood, the new and living way, His flesh, Jesus as our High Priest, faith, salvation; Heb. 10:19-22). Second, it is important to assemble with the saints to stir up love and good works exhorting one another so that the saints do not sin willfully (Heb. 10:26-27) by backsliding in unbelief (Heb. 10:38-39
You want a scripture , well ok, reread the begining post I listed 2 or 3 there. As far as Hebrews 10:25, I do get together with other believers frequently and we have genuine fellowship, we just don't have any religious ceremony. Now are you going to produce a scripture that says I'm wrong for encouraging people to grow in Christ without using a system that wasn't birthed until the fourth century? I preach and teach CHRIST and if it upsets some people, well I am sorry for them.
Colossians 2:16-23
16*So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17*For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself. 18*Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on self-denial. And don’t let anyone say you must worship angels, even though they say they have had visions about this. These people claim to be so humble, but their sinful minds have made them proud. 19*But they are not connected to Christ, the head of the body. For we are joined together in his body by his strong sinews, and we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God.
20*You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the evil powers of this world. So why do you keep on following rules of the world, such as, 21*“Don’t handle, don’t eat, don’t touch.” 22*Such rules are mere human teaching about things that are gone as soon as we use them. 23*These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, humility, and severe bodily discipline. But they have no effect when it comes to conquering a person’s evil thoughts and desires.

There you wanted some more scripture, if you still want to follow a shadow of Christ it's totally up to you, but as for me and my house, we will follow the Christ, Himself.
 
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