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The Church That Would Not Suffer!

jiggyfly

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
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The Church That Would Not Suffer! by Greg Gordon

A message showing forth true apostolic power with God

APOSTOLIC POWER

Oh! for a call back to apostolic preaching, apostolic power, apostolic praying. We cry out ‘I want apostolic power’ but do we really? Do we want to suffer as they did? Do we want to crown our offering with a tortured bloody martyrdom as they did? Pentecost has a cost. If we are going to have apostolic success we are going to have to have apostolic suffering. Leonard Ravenhill said: "We talk Apostolic doctrine but lack Apostolic deeds. We claim Apostolic faith but lack Apostolic fruit. Some trumpet Apostolic power but lack Apostolic poverty. Some claim Apostolic enduement but lack Apostolic accomplishment. We may have Apostolic vocabularies. Do we have Apostolic victories? Many claim Apostolic succession. Few, if any, dare claim Apostolic success!" Let us look at the life's of the apostles and see their summation, see how well they ran and also finished the race that was set before them. Will it shock you to know that every apostle died a violent marytrs death. Should we not except to follow the same path our master trod? shall we not tread it still? Let us read their stories: The apostle Andrew according to traditional accounts, was crucified by order of the Roman Governor, Aegeas at Patrae in Achaia, Greece on a X-shaped cross. The apostle Bartholomew according to traditional accounts, was flayed alive and crucified, head downward, at Albanopolis, Armenia as punishment for having converted the King of Armenia to the Christian faith. The apostle James was the first apostle to be martyred when he was put to death in Jerusalem by the sword at the command of Herod. The apostle James son of alphaeus was martyred at Jerusalem by being thrown from a pinnacle of the Temple, then stoned and beaten with clubs and fuller’s mallets, while praying for his attackers. The apostle John was burned with alive with oil and survived and became the only apostle to die of natural causes. The apostle Judas was beaten to death with a club, then beheaded, in Persia. The apostle Matthias according to traditional accounts, he was stoned to death at Colchis. The apostle Paul was a Roman citizen being exempt from crucifixion, so he was beheaded with a sword in Rome. The apostle Peter was crucified upside down because he claimed he was not worthy to die in the same manner as Christ in Rome. The apostle Philip according to traditional accounts, he was martyred at Hierapolis, Phrygia. The apostle Simon was martyred, but the location is uncertain; some claim that he was crucified in Samaria. The apostle Thomas was pierced through with spears by four soldiers in India. The apostle Barnabus preaching the Gospel was martyred at Salamis. Are you willing to add your name to the list of these true apostles for Christ? Perhaps turn your Bible to Hebrews 11 and read where it says: “others tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection. They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain by the sword.” ?

SPINELESS CHRISTIANITY

The apostles were living martyr’s for Christ dying daily. If we could share in their sufferings but for one day I am sure many of us would forfeit apostolic power. Leonard Ravenhill: “There is a 'deeper life.' It is as deep as a personal Gethsemane and as costly as a personal Calvary." In our beggared condition in the modern day church we cannot handle the consequences of apostolic power. We need first to have our weak skinned, self-seeking, spineless Christianity purged from us. May God be gracious enough to do this. Then perhaps we will have power with God and once again become the “church militant” on earth. "Apostolic preaching is not marked by its beautiful diction, or literary polish, or Cleverness of expression, but Operates "in demonstration of the Spirit and of power." stated Arthur Wallis who longed many years for a true move of God. We need men of renown, those who are willing to count the cost and be amongst the few that do great exploits for God. Hear the heart cry from Samuel M. Zwemer to see these sort of men arise in our day: "A man set on fire is an apostle of his age. And the only one who can kindle the spark of light and fire on the hearth where it has died down is He who has revealed Himself as the God of fire, our Lord Jesus Christ. 'Our God is a consuming fire'...Tell me, is your ministry a burning and shining light, or a smoking wick, slowly dying out to ashes? ...It is a strange custom that we should supply a minister with a glass of water; if only we could supply him with a bonfire in the pulpit, a spiritual bonfire. We need the dynamic of a flaming ministry that will set the Church on fire."?

ANCIENT AND MODERN

To any careful observer of the church in our day we realize there is a great disparity between the modern day example and the apostolic original. Here is anonymous article written in the 1700’s depicting some of these disparities very vividly. Oh for a reviving of the true apostolic spirit in the Church is the crying need of our day, or perhaps the only answer for the Church in this day:

“Ancient and modern preachers. The difference between ancient and modern preachers taken from the Scriptures. If any think me to severe to the Clergy, let them study the examples of Christ and his apostles, and compare the picture.

Ancient: CHRIST call'd his preachers to renounce their wealth, And set a glorious pattern in himself, Who, tho' he did possess all things in store, Yet for our sakes, became exceeding poor.

Modern: Some preachers now, large salaries do fix, So that, by preaching, they may now grow rich, So far departing from their blessed Lord, They worship mammon and a golden god.

Ancient: CHRIST told them, to be wise, they must be fools, And that not all the knowledge of the schools, Could ever teach one soul the way to heaven, That this is only by his spirit given.

Modern: But now, some go unto the schools of men, Expecting heavenly wisdom to obtain, And that, by reading books, they may acquire The holy spirit, the baptismal fire.

Ancient: CHRIST charg'd his followers, titles to contemn And, often faithfully, admonish'd them Not to be called RABBI, learned, wise, But all ambitious selfishness despise.

Modern: Now, some are call'd Archbishops and Prelates, Reverend Doctors, learn'd, wise, and great, The reverend parson, and master of arts, Old pharisaick pride, in all its parts.

Ancient: CHRIST told his followers, to be meek and mild, As low and humble as a little child, That they must not aspire to lofty seats, But must come down and wash each others feet.

Modern: Now some, in garments long, do love to stand, With college flourishes, they wave their hands, Read their writings, and then call it preaching, Old orthodox apostolick teaching. Now money, schools and books supply the place, Of humble love, and sanctifiing grace, When money fails, these teachers often flee, The reason is, because, they hirelings be. When any now, are call'd of GOD, to teach, And by his spirit, are sent forth to preach, These learn'd scholars soon, will them degrade, Lest their cheap preaching should spoil their trade.

Ancient: CHRIST told his followers that they must expect, The world would hate them treat them with neglect, That as they hated him without a cause, So they would hate his followers and his laws. Fools in the eastern of the world.

Modern: No, say some modern preachers, 'tis not true, The world will love us and respect too, We are commanded for to live in peace, We will not then disturb their carnal ease.

Ancient: CHRIST told them, a distinction they must make, That they, the sheep and goats, must separate, That, as the sheep were separate from wolves. They must not be by worldly maxims rul'd.

Modern: No, say some teachers, this is a mistake; Therfore, we now will join the church and state. Tho' this is very far from GOD'S design, This jargon union, they attempt to join.

Ancient: CHRIST oft declares, the help of man is vain, And, that except a man be born again, And that except we all converted be, GOD'S kingdom we can never, never see.

Modern: Some hold, that there is yet some power in man, And that by creeds, and modes, and forms he can, Profess, confess, and plead, and, by degrees, The holy, angry, jealous GOD, appease.

Ancient: CHRIST says he is the way, the truth, the life, That, our of him, we have no strength or light. We have no faith, no hope, no might, at all. He is our joy, our hope, our all in all.

Modern: Why then, among the herdsmen, is such strife, When all of them can't bring a flea to life. Striving, both night and day, to proselyte, And yet cannot make one hair black or white!

Ancient: CHRIST'S followers, of old, were of one heart, Did, with their worldly int'rest, freely part; Neither did any say, ought was his own; It all in common stock was freely thrown.

Modern: Some christians now, so selfish they are grown, It is with trouble, we can get our own, And sometimes are obliged to complain, Unto the laws, our rights for to obtain.

Ancient: Christians all took their names from CHRIST, their head, All party names, from them, entirely fled, No Parthians or Medes with them were known, No other names, but christians, they would own.

Modern: Christians are so divided, in our days, The want of true religion it betrays, Presbyterian, Churchmen, Baptist, Quaker, Methodist, Universalist, and Shaker. It makes me almost sick, To see the names Iv'e writ, My pen I now will quit, And will not waste My paper.”
 
What is this...

BR Bear said be nice.....I'll repost latter.........can't ignore that big check in my spirit....
This is great Jiggyfly...... Where did you find such a funny article??
Keep em coming brother!!!!

God Bless.

Jesus Is Lord.
 
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apostolic power

Lets look at some things............

I also thank Jiggyfly for giving us an example of some of the silly and ignorant stuff Certain denominations get themselves into.

It is Sad that Greg Gorden wrote this, as God has used him. It is also sad that he is a Baptist which are finally after years, making their way to speaking in tongues, and understanding how to believe God. Shall we get started?

Leonard Ravenhill said: "We talk Apostolic doctrine but lack Apostolic deeds. We claim Apostolic faith but lack Apostolic fruit. Some trumpet Apostolic power but lack Apostolic poverty. Some claim Apostolic enduement but lack Apostolic accomplishment.
Apostle means sent one. It is a Greek Word. That is all it means. Those with this calling are the ones starting the Work of Christ. Sometimes in the most remote, dangerous places on the earth. The bible never mentions Apostolic faith (Special powers apostles had), and never mentions that being poor has anything to do with Being used by God in the Gifts of the Spirit.
This is all made up stuff with someone who has nothing better to do.

The apostle Andrew according to traditional accounts, was crucified by order of the Roman Governor,
The writer gives a list of those crucified, but it is according to traditional Accounts which vary depending on what denomination your following. It is not the Word of God, but men of doctrine and tradition does not let that stop them. We need Scripture!!!! We are suppose to be ministers of the Word of God, not fairy tails or make believe. If it were even true, God never mentioned it and so it is not important to even consider.


The apostles were living martyr’s for Christ dying daily. If we could share in their sufferings but for one day I am sure many of us would forfeit apostolic power.
Ya, that's what we tell people. Draw back from faith!!! Forfeit the power of the of the Holy Ghost. (Changed term as apostolic power is a make believe term.) I wonder if he is including himself in this statement?

Ancient: CHRIST call'd his preachers to renounce their wealth, And set a glorious pattern in himself, Who, tho' he did possess all things in store, Yet for our sakes, became exceeding poor.
Ummm. What scripture was that again...Where the anointed one of God told the preachers to renounce wealth? More make believe..........

Modern: But now, some go unto the schools of men, Expecting heavenly wisdom to obtain, And that, by reading books, they may acquire The holy spirit, the baptismal fire.
Jesus said ask the father and he will give you the Holy Spirit. He comes as a free gift to all that receive him........

ah.......I agree with a few points, but most is rubbish... this can get long in typing.....Lets look at this........

‘I want apostolic power’ but do we really? Do we want to suffer as they did? Do we want to crown our offering with a tortured bloody martyrdom as they did? Pentecost has a cost. If we are going to have apostolic success we are going to have to have apostolic suffering.
It could be that this writer did not own a bible at the time of writing this. He should have heard the words of Peter.........
After the miracle at Gate beautiful.......

Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Act 3:16
And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

Well, there goes that apostolic power theory..........This scripture was there for a reason, to prevent silly people from saying and writing silly things, to bad not everyone paid attention.
It was faith in the name of Jesus that made the man strong!!!! It had nothing to do with Peter's Holiness or power as the article says.......
The Name of Jesus has not lost any authority today as some believe, There is power in his name to cure anything, even to raise the dead.....

OH there is a problem though. We must have faith in his name. Articles like this are just excuses not to be accountable for not believing anything and being weak in faith. Men bring the bible down to their level of experience!!! We don't pray in tongues, so it is passed away. We do not see the things the apostles did, so it is not for today..
We are to read the Word of God and find out where we come short,Then find out how to get to that place, not make excuses.........or say things seem unobtainable.

Mark 16:17 does not say... And these signs shall follow them that gave up all their money, find people to hate them, and make sure they die a horrible death while living a impoverished life.; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

NO, the signs follow those that Believe!!!!

Act 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who steadfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
Act 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

who had the faith to be healed? That crippled man did. He heard the Word Paul preached. Did that faith come from Paul preaching that Healing had been done away? No, and it never will come listening to that.

Do I need to add all the scriptures where Jesus said it was according to YOUR FAITH? YOUR FAITH made you whole? I have not seen so GREAT FAITH?

Once again we see those that take the things of God, twist them to a point that it would seem horrible to obey God to obtain what he said.

Sadly there are people that actually believe this garbage............

Jesus Is Lord!!!
 
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BR Bear said be nice.....I'll repost latter.........can't ignore that big check in my spirit....
This is great Jiggyfly...... Where did you find such a funny article??
Keep em coming brother!!!!

God Bless.

Jesus Is Lord.

I am not sure what you mean about Br Bear, I don't see a post of his here.
 
Ah, Br Bear.

He has asked me to consider NOT picking at your post in the manner I have done.

My original post was very sarcastic, and God started dealing with me to get ride of it.. Having to leave soon, I just type that quick message and deleted the post.

I realize you did not compose the original message here, and I was kinda hoping we might possibly be able to not be so Critical with each others post, and just ask questions , You do post some good things......I don't mind the controversial going back and forth, as I believe others can read and learn.

anyway........

God bless..........

Jesus Is Lord.
 
To the degree that the original post raises our awareness of how the emphasis of apostolic preaching has changed over time and how that is not in agreement with the biblical teachings of Christ as to what is expected of those of us who choose to be ministers, I see this a a great post. It put a knot in my throat and a weight in my spirit to be a better more Christ like minister.

We may find some points of disagreement, however, considering the importance of this issue, all of us who strive to minister to others need to seriously consider the issues raised here. Are we servants of Christ or are we serving our own needs?

God help us to make humble, Christ submitted, biblically based choices.
 
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I find it a bit incredulous that the disparity was writ about in the 1700`s!

It seems so much truth, that one will not willingly suffer much for something one does not love much, but if we love much, we willingly suffer anything. The church that refuses to suffer, cannot be said to love Christ much.

A thought stood out to me...

"We may have Apostolic vocabularies. Do we have Apostolic victories?"

I hear a lot of people 'talking the talk', but there seems to be a lot of crying for 'deliverance' and a whole lot of cursing and rebuking (confusing the devil with God) when it comes to actually walking the walk. Do I exaggerate? Some of us are soon annoyed, if the alarm clock wakes us too loudly to begin a new day, and if we look out the window and see rain, why listen to us complain.

Do we really think there is any better time to lay down our life for His, than "while it is called today"

How much more of Gods 'fire by night, and cloud by day', (speaking of the power of the Spirit displayed in our lives of course) , if we would give God glory with our mouths, as we gather His daily manna, and endure those daily difficulties, instead of complaining we dont have the onions of the world. I`m not so sure the church that would not suffer, can tell the difference between a blessing and a curse anymore.


Is there really any victory to be had without bearing something, enduring something? What a contrast Christs teaching has with that of the current church age, which seems to promote victory based on the power of positive thinking, and the power of will (not Gods will, but our own mind you) and its purported if you just have enough faith, why you wont have to endure anything, you`ll slide all the way to glory.

I was listening to a sermon earlier, and this wise old black woman was quoted as having said "if a mountain is smooth, you cannot climb it"
Ah...Church, Heaven is UP, not down!




1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
1Co 13:5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
1Co 13:6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
1Co 13:7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1Co 13:8 Love never ends.
 
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