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The Church of the Bible

gdemoss

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
792
After studying in Col 1, I came across this verse and wondered greatly about it as it was tied into the final verse stating who was reconciled unto Christ through the blood of his cross.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;

NOTE: This section edited due to my causing confusion.

Please, feel free to join me in the study and all comments that pertain to the specific study are welcome. Please do not derail by going into topics of other doctrine if something said here would suggest that that doctrine is in error. Please note that everything posted is part of a study. A study ends in a conclusion of the matter. Of which I would like to see many people input with a final conclusion of their own.

I intend to try and look at ever instance of the word used for Church in the bible both new and old testaments. Beginning with the Greek word used in the new testament. There is only one Greek word translated church in the new testament.

ἐκκλησία - I intend to define the word using the bible itself.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This church belongs to Christ which is built upon a rock (Peter or Peter's profession of Jesus being Christ is the rock) The word translated 'build' can also be translated 'rebuild'. The word 'hell' seems to be more of the traditional 'grave' or place where one is while he is dead and therefore it is saying that the grave will not keep this church within it after physical death.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Jesus is addressing the disciples and teaching them how to deal with a brother who has transgressed against them. He had just previously in Chapter 16 spoke of the church being 'built' or 'rebuilt' upon the rock.

These two verses taken together suggest that Jesus is speaking of a particular assembly, as they are brothers founded upon a rock who the grave shall not prevail against. There is expected to be problems that arise within this church and they are expected to be taken care of in a specific manner that ends ultimately in the whole church deciding the matter.

Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved .

Here we have the Lord adding to the Church daily such as should be saved. Peter is involved and it is safe to assume it is the same Church spoken of as above. Note: such as should be saved - not such as will be saved. This church is said to be praising God and having favor with all the people. I'm sure that 'all' doesn't mean 'all' as is the case in much of the bible. I'm sure it doesn't mean the scribes and Pharisees.

Act 5:11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

This entry found just after the Annanias and Saphira incident. The fear that came upon all and as many was due to the action taken by God in the matter. God is the ultimate judge in the church.

Act 7:38 This is he , that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Referring to Israel as the church that Moses was a part of. We will note this entry and see if there is any correlation from future revelation in our study.

Moses who lead this church in the wilderness prophesied about Jesus as a prophet who they would hear. This verse is in the context of Stephens defense to the Jews. Stephen is one who was prophesied about as to who would hear Jesus. Stephen is part of the church being 'built' or 'rebuilt' by Jesus on the rock. This would appear to be tying the two churches together.

Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

The church was persecuted by Jews and scattered abroad.

Act 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.

more description of the persecution.

Act 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified ; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied .

More about the state of the church after Paul's conversion.

Act 11:22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.

The church spoken of as a specific entity in Jerusalem. This verse references the effect of the preaching that led out from the dispersed after Stephens stoning. It speaks of the Gospel going out to the Jews only.

Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass , that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Barnabas had sought out Paul and took him to Antioch. They were part of the church there for a year as teachers.

Act 12:1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth [his] hands to vex certain of the church.

More about enemies of the church disclosed at the time Peter understands that Gentile will be added to the church as well.

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

From the surrounding context, some of the church fasted, ministered to the Lord and were spoken to by the Holy Spirit. They sent missionaries.

Act 14:27 And when they were come , and had gathered the church together , they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Confirmation of the Gentiles entering into the church. Dialog between the missionaries sent out and the local body they were sent from.

Act 15:3-4 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

More great communication by the missionaries to whomever they went. This time being used to go up to Jerusalem to discuss a matter concerning the law and Gentile believers. One local body openly accepting those from another local body.

A summary of today's study:

The word 'Church' as found in the bible in Matt - Acts 15.
  • Belongs to Christ
  • Being built or rebuilt upon the rock (Peter or Peters profession of faith)
  • Praises God
  • Has favor with 'all' people
  • Lord adds to it such as 'should' be saved
  • The grave will not be able to hold them
  • Problems expected among them
  • The whole assembly ultimately decides on offenses
  • God ultimate Judge of.
  • Israel is regarded as 'the church' in the wilderness with Moses.
  • Evidence suggests the church in the wilderness is tied to the present church through Moses prophesy calling them all 'brethren'.
  • Persecuted church by Jews.
  • Experienced periods of rest.
  • Walk in fear of the Lord
  • Walk in the comfort of the Holy Ghost
  • Continually multiplied
  • Spoken of in plural sense as there are more than one
  • Disciples who are part of the Church are called Christians.
  • Has teachers within its ranks.
  • Gentile believers added to the church.
  • Sent missionaries out from them by order of the Holy Spirit.
  • fasted and ministered to the Lord
  • Elders are ordained in every local body
  • Communicate to each other the work of God being done.
  • Respect given to Jerusalem body for decision making purposes for the young church.
 
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NOTE: I invite you to come along for the study but I may not be much for chatting back and forth about the topic. I am not going to bother debating over why you think I am wrong in my observations because they do not meet the criteria of your doctrine. To many doctrines of men out there to try and fight off every heresy in every thread repeatedly.

I stopped reading about here. If you are conducting a personally critiqued study, and don't invite comment, maybe it's best to do this in private. Possibly this study also contains some "doctrines of men and heresy."
 
I stopped reading about here. If you are conducting a personally critiqued study, and don't invite comment, maybe it's best to do this in private. Possibly this study also contains some "doctrines of men and heresy."

Although I agree with Gary in several topics, I think Agua hit the nail on the head. If you plan to 'study' on a forum, discussion is inevitable and debate is certain.
 
I stopped reading about here. If you are conducting a personally critiqued study, and don't invite comment, maybe it's best to do this in private. Possibly this study also contains some "doctrines of men and heresy."

Agua, I have always appreciated your input and tact in the past. I think you misunderstand what my intentions were.

If I was planning on not interacting with anyone over the course of the study, there would be no purpose for a public display. My wording may have been lacking in giving complete understanding of my intentions and therein I have room to improve. I do see where my wording can be misunderstood to think that I was saying that there was a zero critique policy. I try to read everything I write 2 or 3 times to make sure it conveys the message I hope to be received. In this case it seems I failed.

The message I intended was to convey the idea that I would continue the study regardless of what was said along the way. The study would not be guided by the input of others as far as direction goes. Other peoples input would simply serve to help clarify things overlooked and/or possibly misunderstood. I simply am not interested in turning another thread into some eternal security debate because something may be revealed within the study that would suggest otherwise.

Thank you for your concern. I plan to continue.

Although I agree with Gary in several topics, I think Agua hit the nail on the head. If you plan to 'study' on a forum, discussion is inevitable and debate is certain.

discussion that is healthy is invited. People who discuss things for the purpose of increasing their own knowledge so that they may be more helpful to others or those who discuss with the intent of edifying the other will be heard. My ears are becoming dull to the rest. God doesn't listen to them, so why should I? I want to be like him.

debate (contention, strife, wrangling) is sin and uninvited.

Peace to you both and blessing upon your studies,

Gary
 
hi Gary

When we read the bible about the church .Why isn't it like that when we come together(go to church)? When I first went to church it wasn't what I thought it was going to be like.The first thing I heard was Malachi how I robbed God and was cursed with a curse.I went there for a year.First thing I heard was Malachi every time.But now I come together(go to church) some were else.No Malachi but still not the same as in the bible why?
 
hi Gary

When we read the bible about the church .Why isn't it like that when we come together(go to church)? When I first went to church it wasn't what I thought it was going to be like.The first thing I heard was Malachi how I robbed God and was cursed with a curse.I went there for a year.First thing I heard was Malachi every time.But now I come together(go to church) some were else.No Malachi but still not the same as in the bible why?

This is a truly excellent question James.

When I first came to Christ and began attending church, the church I attended was informal and plastic. They sang empty songs of praise and passed the plate. They built big buildings and focused on trying to find was to spend every dime that came into the plate. They even built a community center with Gods money that they charge people a monthly service fee to attend. I left. Then the next church was a smaller group who seemed dedicated to getting to know each other and study the bible for truth as they called themselves Bereans. I stayed for 3 years as I read the bible and fellow shipped with them. Slowly I began to understand that what the Pastor was teaching wasn't what the bible actually said. I had a nervous breakdown over it. I left.

Since that time I turned solely to God himself as it had been proven that I cannot trust man. I have earnestly prayed that God would help me find a local body of believers who actually believe AND follow the bible. He has yet to reveal one to me but has directed me to some true Christians who love him and work to submit themselves to his authority.

James, consider the fact that Satan has had 2000 years to corrupt the church before you and I were born. We seem to be in an age equivalent to the church of Laodicea. Jesus' statement to those who find themselves there is to open the door and he will come in and sup with them. Who do you suppose is doing the feeding?

My plan. I trust God to lead me in all truth. If I love, honor and obey that truth then I will automatically have fellowship with every other genuine Christian that God leads me too. We will be of the same mind. We will have the mind of Christ. We will be hated by all false Christians who are not circumcised with the circumcision made without hands. Yet nothing will separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus.

Thank you for the question brother.

Gary

On a side note James. I see that you are in Detroit. I am 4 hours away in Indiana. I would be willing to come meet up with you some time for fellowship where we can hear the inflection in each others voice which always helps to avoid misunderstanding one another. The man who brought me to Christ lives in Battle Creek and I journey up there to fellowship with him once or twice a year.
 
I fully understand the attempt to avoid chasing up the eternal security rabbit hole. : )

I like what you have presented so far except for the definition of the "rock" as being other than Jesus Himself. I have a disliking for the Catholic doctrine of Pope lineage based on this interpretation. This isn't important as per the study though.

Looking forward to the next instalment.
 
Church is actually an errant translation of the Greek word ekklesia
A little etymology study shows that the English word "church" comes from the Greek word kuriakos both have different meanings.

Ekklesia means an assembly of people, where kuriakos means the Lord's, kuriakos is only used twice in the scriptures, 1Cor. 11 for the Lord's supper and Rev.1 for the Lord's day.

This errant translation has allowed and encouraged the fallacy that the "church" building is God's house rather than conveying the truth that we the people are God's house.
 
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Church is actually.....God's house.

Thanks for pointing this out. I seemed apparent from the basic reading of the scriptures that Church never meant building in the sense that we assemble in a building. But I did not know the etymology of the word Church and that it actually came from a different Greek word. Good to know. It shall enhance the study.

Gary
 
Gary

On a side note James. I see that you are in Detroit. I am 4 hours away in Indiana. I would be willing to come meet up with you some time for fellowship where we can hear the inflection in each others voice which always helps to avoid misunderstanding one another. The man who brought me to Christ lives in Battle Creek and I journey up there to fellowship with him once or twice a year.


Hi Gary

fellowship would be good.
 
Interesting look about the first church of the Nt. History tells us the church began on the Day of Pentecost. It was called the church of God in many scriptures. It maintained it's regular 7th day Sabbath as it was mainly Jewish at the beginning and never abandoned God's Holydays.
They continued to worship in the Temple at Jerusalem.
more later-thanks
 
Interesting look about the first church of the Nt. History tells us the church began on the Day of Pentecost. It was called the church of God in many scriptures. It maintained it's regular 7th day Sabbath as it was mainly Jewish at the beginning and never abandoned God's Holydays.
They continued to worship in the Temple at Jerusalem.
more later-thanks

I second this....but some of you probably knew I would.
 
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