The Calling to preach the Gospel

[ThatGuy]

ThatGuy,

If you use a study Bible, which I presume you do, I think you will find confirmation in its study notes that your view on 1 Tim 2:11-12 is in no way universally accepted in the church. Therefore, in my opinion, you should always note when posting your opinion on this issue that what you are posting is, in fact, your opinion only and not universally accepted church teaching.

SLE

Of course it's not universally accepted, because the truth never sounds good to us. There are churches out there who believe it's ok to drink alcohol, there are churches who say homosexuality is not sin, there are churches who pretty much justify every single sin in the word of God. Honestly, I don't care what other people think about that scripture, I care what the scripture actually says, forget people.

What makes you think I didn't pray?

Your attitude, your tone, your choice of words all lack kindness, patience & self control. Not very Christ-like if you ask me.

You seem very firm in what you believe, but you need to consider the fact that you could be wrong. You must remain teachable at all times. I do. If I am wrong, I pray God will convict me and make me humble enough to admit it. Women can preach, in and out of the church. Afterall, the church is just a building. I think you have misinterpreted scripture.

btw, God has called me to preach, not just to the lost, not just to Christians, but to leaders in the church - men more specifically. This is how I know you are wrong. It has been revealed to me through prophets, dreams & the Holy Spirit on more than one occassion with scriptures to back it up. I know what I've been told. May God correct me if I'm wrong! And I pray that He will do the same for you - correct you where you are wrong.

P.S. I stood up for you in the previous post because other Christians were harsh with you, but you are just the same by being harsh with me.

What scriptures will back this up? Please I am still interested in hearing a scripture that allows women to be leaders over men, and I am still waiting. Also on God "calling" you to preach, honesly I think it's bologna, if you have a vision that is not in tune with the word of God, then it's from the devil, I don't care if you saw Jesus, my bible says women are not to become leaders over men, and I have yet to see anything in the word of God that reverses this fact. Also on being harsh, I apologize, but this issue is really starting to vex me, I mean really.

 

[pebosworth]

What more scripture do you require? I already pointed out that many women in those times preached and taught. Priscilla taught Apollos, who was a great preacher. Once again, Paul was not referring to ALL women otherwise he would have stated so, and the Bible would have mentioned it more than once. That was in the letter to the Ephesians, so it was addressed to the Ephesian women.

The church is just a building, it isn't even necessary to further God's Kingdom. The real Church is the body of Christ, ALL believers - not just men, and we are all commanded to preach, teach, rebuke, encourage etc. So whether it is done inside or outside the church building is irrelevent. Men are no greater than women and women no greater than men. We all have different roles yes, but preaching is for everyone who is called to do so. Men and women alike. If it weren't so, don't you think the Bible would have elaborated that more? Don't you think Jesus would have said so? If preaching behind the pulpit was so important, don't you think Jesus would have spent time behind the pulpit preaching? God does not show favouritism, therefore your view is not in line with God's word. You choose to see it the way you want to and not the way it is. That verse was meant for the Ephesians and us Christians to know that anyone who is inexperienced in the faith should not preach not just women alone.

I cannot fathom that my God would be a shovinist, that he intended to only use men to preach. The God that I know, would use the weak, would use the humble, and being the "weaker" sex, I can see God would use us women too! No where else does it say that preaching is only for men. If you read that verse out of context then it might seem so, but it isn't. Once again, that verse was not speaking to ALL women of ALL nations, otherwise Paul would have said so.

I don't think you can go around telling people that their visions are from Satan. You do not know that for 100%, therefore you cannot make comments like that. Comments like that could cause believers to stumble, and I'm sure you know what the Bible says about those that cause believers to stumble! Thankfully, I don't listen to man, I believe God so I know that my vision is from God. I have a relationship with him, and even though I don't owe you an explanation, I can assure you that I have taken this vision to God and asked for confirmation and he gave me confirmation on more than one occassion. I know it's from God and I know it doesn't go against his Word, because I understand what that verse means and I have been given wisdom to discern what is from Satan and what is from God. So thank you for your concern, but I know what God has told me, and if i didn't believe it, I would be calling God a liar, and I choose not to, I choose to believe God not you or any other man.

I still remain firm that if I am wrong that God will convict me. I pray that with all of you as my witnesses. I don't mind humbling myself and apologizing if I am wrong because God is the one that must be glorified not me. And I will do so gladly. Will you?

 

[Coconut]

"should not take the words of the scripture 'for what they are worth''

Wow, you can't be serious. So what you are saying is, let's believe wholly in the word of God, but when it comes to subject we personally disagree with, then all of a sudden it becomes a bible study? This is a joke. How much more clear can you get than what Paul said, let me post that scripture for you again since you probably tore it out of your bible.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

How much more clear can you get? Seriously, you need to check yourself on this one Coconut. And the scriptures you posted are irrelivent because they say nothing about a woman teaching or preaching or being in leadership over men. The scriptures you posted speak about the gifts of the spirit, such as prophesying, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. But whatever, the best advice I can give is to pray about it, I can't change your mind.

Um...

I am serious. I also speak sarcasm as a second language...which apparently you would`nt mind at all...:wink:

but I will refrain for the moment so as to get this point across...

What I was trying to say is, Scripture must be interpreted in light of the historical context in which it was written. The reader cannot hope to understand difficult verses such as the one above, if the literary rules - 'who, what, when, where, and why' are not applied.

Honestly, I don't care what other people think about that scripture, I care what the scripture actually says, forget people.

I could`nt agree more...but don`t you think there might be a reason why
this is not a universally accepted church teaching as SLE pointed out?
Don`t forget , if it were`nt for some of those " other people" ...(amoung whom are scholars, and commentators and translators and wise men of God) we would`nt be able to understand the little bit we do of this two thousand year old text. :helppc:


It might surprise you (as it did me) that it is thought by some Bible Scholars that the verse you quoted, and the verse in 1Co 14:34-35 was inserted by the scribes who translated the NT letters around 100 AD (Paul already being dead ~ and that culture [traditions of Judaism] being firmly intrenched in believing women should`nt even be taught the Word, let alone teach it)

Of course they can`t prove it, so neither can I...(which is why I`m not convinced) but that Corinithian command does`nt appear to even fit in with the context of the passage, (which is prophecy) nor does either command hold up in light of other scripture. Might then it be a cultural command? I just threw that in there as 'food for thought' ...my point is, where there is an apparent contradiction in scripture, we must study the text ...do you see?

I see you are a fairly new convert...I admire your passion...I really do...but it will save you a whole heap of trouble if you learn to read the scripture in context, and be willing to study it, instead of saying 'this verse says this, and so thats how it is!' If after having studied the subject, you are persuaded, and still conclude the 'calling to preach the gospel' is only for men, so be it...i`m not so persuaded...

I was taught very erroneously when I was a young christian that "every chapter, verse, and line applied to me!" This is where that "I dont care about what other people think about scripture" can be applied to your own teachers...wether that teacher be your pastor or not. It would have saved me a lot of "vex`n" if someone had only told me how to read the Bible, (context of audience) and how it is revelant to me :bot:

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living, so that the person who serves God may be fully qualified and equipped to do every kind of good deed.

 

[pebosworth]

Also on being harsh, I apologize, but this issue is really starting to vex me, I mean really.

James 1:10 "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry."

James 1:26 "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless."

Matthew 5:22 "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment."

 

[Fellowservant]

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,

Even Peter says that Paul had some teachings that were hard to understand. Does James contradict Paul, when he says Abraham was justified by his works? When Paul says we are not justified by works?

So because of these apparent contradictions, some things are hard to be understood. Its best to let things like this slide, or we will end up being very contentious because of them.

If a man wants to be ignorant let him be ignorant. Agree to disagree in cases like this, because of apparent contraditions with woman not being allowed to speak in the Church in one letter.

And in another letter Paul tells woman in the Church to prophecy with their heads covered. You can't force people to agree on things that seem to contradict. We can't even agree on what the covering was. Some believe its a vail, while others believe it was her hair.


God bless

 

[Fellowservant]

Also i believe that the ordinances here are that a woman should have long hair, and a man should have short hair. Why? because of the below scripture.

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering.

1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

The words here in 1Co 11:16 can mean other things in other translations of the bible. Some translations say we have no such custom, while others say this is the only custom for worship in the Church.

Just giving you an example of people not agreeing on some scriptures that are hard to be understood, sorry for derailing the tread.

God bless

 

[ThatGuy]

What more scripture do you require? I already pointed out that many women in those times preached and taught. Priscilla taught Apollos, who was a great preacher. Once again, Paul was not referring to ALL women otherwise he would have stated so, and the Bible would have mentioned it more than once. That was in the letter to the Ephesians, so it was addressed to the Ephesian women.

The church is just a building, it isn't even necessary to further God's Kingdom. The real Church is the body of Christ, ALL believers - not just men, and we are all commanded to preach, teach, rebuke, encourage etc. So whether it is done inside or outside the church building is irrelevent. Men are no greater than women and women no greater than men. We all have different roles yes, but preaching is for everyone who is called to do so. Men and women alike. If it weren't so, don't you think the Bible would have elaborated that more? Don't you think Jesus would have said so? If preaching behind the pulpit was so important, don't you think Jesus would have spent time behind the pulpit preaching? God does not show favouritism, therefore your view is not in line with God's word. You choose to see it the way you want to and not the way it is. That verse was meant for the Ephesians and us Christians to know that anyone who is inexperienced in the faith should not preach not just women alone.

I cannot fathom that my God would be a shovinist, that he intended to only use men to preach. The God that I know, would use the weak, would use the humble, and being the "weaker" sex, I can see God would use us women too! No where else does it say that preaching is only for men. If you read that verse out of context then it might seem so, but it isn't. Once again, that verse was not speaking to ALL women of ALL nations, otherwise Paul would have said so.

I don't think you can go around telling people that their visions are from Satan. You do not know that for 100%, therefore you cannot make comments like that. Comments like that could cause believers to stumble, and I'm sure you know what the Bible says about those that cause believers to stumble! Thankfully, I don't listen to man, I believe God so I know that my vision is from God. I have a relationship with him, and even though I don't owe you an explanation, I can assure you that I have taken this vision to God and asked for confirmation and he gave me confirmation on more than one occassion. I know it's from God and I know it doesn't go against his Word, because I understand what that verse means and I have been given wisdom to discern what is from Satan and what is from God. So thank you for your concern, but I know what God has told me, and if i didn't believe it, I would be calling God a liar, and I choose not to, I choose to believe God not you or any other man.

I still remain firm that if I am wrong that God will convict me. I pray that with all of you as my witnesses. I don't mind humbling myself and apologizing if I am wrong because God is the one that must be glorified not me. And I will do so gladly. Will you?

Is Pricilla the only example you can come up with in scripture? I mean really, Pricilla is never even mentioned by herself in the scriptures, she is always mentioned with her husband, and do you know what occupation she had? She was a tent-maker. Name me one prominent female preacher in the bible and I will GLADLY shutup. You can't. The bible says Satan is an angel of light, remember that the next time you have a "vision" from "God". You know what my prayer is? My prayer is that whoever your leaders are have enough discernment to not allow a female into leadership roles, this will lead to the destruction of your congregation, we don't need a feminist regime in the church, we need preachers of the gospel. Let me ask you a question, why do you think the 12 apostles were all men? These 12 men are literally the foundation of the kingdom of God as we know it. Moses, Joshua, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Saul, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Nehemiah, Joseph, Amos, the apostle Paul, Timothy, Titus. The list goes on and on, and the only name you can come up with is Pricilla the tent-maker. I'm sorry if I sound harsh Pebos but the fact is that what you are saying does not line up with the word of God, end of story, there's no need for a deep theological survey of the scriptures when they are staring you in the face, the word of God is clear.

I see you are a fairly new convert...I admire your passion...I really do...but it will save you a whole heap of trouble if you learn to read the scripture in context, and be willing to study it, instead of saying 'this verse says this, and so thats how it is!' If after having studied the subject, you are persuaded, and still conclude the 'calling to preach the gospel' is only for men, so be it...i`m not so persuaded

1 Timothy 4:12 says

"Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."

I may be a fairly new Christian, but I intend to keep my integrity and my heart right with God, Coconut.

 

[Coconut]

there's no need for a deep theological survey of the scriptures when they are staring you in the face, the word of God is clear.

Is it so clear? Well call me a donkey...or just call me a woman...

Please read the following article on this link!
(not endorsing the entire website which I have`nt read)

Present Testimony Ministry


QUOTE: "The truth of the matter is that the limiting passages are highly obscure. Anyone who asserts that they are clear and direct is living in a fog of presumption and academic naivety. For one thing, such an assertion reflects a benighted dismissal of texts like Acts 2:17, Galatians 3:28, and 1 Corinthians 11:5, 14:26, 31.

Pick up any decent commentary. Look up the limiting passages, and youll discover the various ways these texts can be interpreted due to the ambiguity of the language. The fact that competent evangelical scholars disagree on the meaning of Pauls word usage in these passages attests to their obscurity.

Its my opinion that we should always interpret the obscure by the clear, not the other way around. When we interpret the clear and consistent thrust of Scripture in light of one or two obscure passages, we end up rupturing the core message of the Bible. And we are forced to do all sorts of exegetical gymnastics to make the many clear passages fit our interpretation of the few obscure texts.

Therefore, when an obscure passage seems to be at odds with the clear thrust of Scripture, we must look carefully at context."

1 Timothy 4:12 says

"Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."

I may be a fairly new Christian, but I intend to keep my integrity and my heart right with God, Coconut.

That is commendable, and I mean no disrespect, however may I suggest you are nonetheless still a novice, and therefore might not know "the word of God" as well as you might like to think you do.
I would not be so arrogant as to say I could`nt learn from a babe in Christ...I have learned much from babes...but you must not be so arrogant as to suppose you have nothing to learn from those who have spent years in the study of the same scriptures you porport to need no further look at than a cursory read to clearly understand. We [women] are not as ignorant as you might suppose...I suspect pebosworth knows much more than I do...along with other esteemed posters in this thread...maybe you could take time to listen to what they are attemping to convey, instead of riding roughshod over their words in your hurry to climb on your soapbox.

You know what my prayer is? My prayer is that whoever your leaders are have enough discernment to not allow a female into leadership roles, this will lead to the destruction of your congregation, we don't need a feminist regime in the church, we need preachers of the gospel.

You force me to comment on this...its very revealing about just how prepared you are for leadership role...and since I`ve been hangin around the 'church' for awhile now, I can tell you its more destructive to ignore 1Ti 3:6 than it is to not understand 1 Tim 2:11.

Add Note: Timothy was young, but not a novice, as Paul says concerning him, (2Ti 3:15) "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings"

 

[SpiritLedEd]

My prayer is that whoever your leaders are have enough discernment to not allow a female into leadership roles, this will lead to the destruction of your congregation, we don't need a feminist regime in the church, we need preachers of the gospel.

ThatGuy,

At my church, we have two women on pastoral staff who preach at our weekend services occasionally. Both of these women are friends of mine, both of them love the Lord with all their hearts. Having known both of them for a number of years, I can testify that neither of them are feminists!

You admit to being a fairly new believer, yet you have the audacity to suggest that all women preachers are feminists. How can you possibly make such a statement? By that statement, you have revealed yourself to be a diehard male chauvinist, not a loving disciple of Christ.

SpiritLedEd

 

[pebosworth]

Is Pricilla the only example you can come up with in scripture? .... Name me one prominent female preacher in the bible and I will GLADLY shutup.

You can only quote one scripture that seems to suggest that women shouldn't preach and here you go contradicting yourself by saying that I can only name one so therefore you say it doesn't count? That's not right.

I am quite tired of your rudeness now, it is not Christ-like and it is quite insulting. You should not treat your sister this way or speak to her with such disrespect. I have been very nice to you in all my posts, as kind as I possibly can because there is no need to fight with a brother or be rude to a brother and afterall we should be nice to everyone as Christians. What do you think this must look like to non-believers? If they come here and see this thread, it could turn them away from Christ.

Like I said, you cannot go around telling people their visions are from Satan. If you wrong, and I know you are, then your "advice" could cause a believer to stumble, then God's wrath will be on you. You are not in a position to tell people that their visions are from Satan, that is not up to you to do. You are just a human being, you couldn't possibly know the whole truth, so why bother saying something like that?

You call me a feminist, but you sound like a real chauvenist the way you speak down on women and your reason - one simple misinterpreted verse of the Bible. Not a good enough reason as far as I'm concerned.

I mentioned in my previous posts many women who were high up in the church. I'm not sure what your definition of preaching is, but it seems very specific. If it means only standing in the church building behind a pulpit, then you are really confused my brother. By naming all the descendants of Jesus doesn't prove that women didn't preach. It just proves that Jesus exists because the Bible highlights his geneology.

I don't think you are reading posts or even trying to see the truth in my posts. GOD DOES NOT SHOW FAVOURITISM! FULL STOP. Why would you think he would be a chauvenist? Only thinking men is important enough to do his work? I don't know who you are serving, but that is not my God!

If you could please try and word your posts a bit nicer and try to leave out the deliberate exclamations and "Oh Lord's" and "I mean really's" etc. Like I said, it's not Christ-like, and therefore it doesn't help in proving your point when you are so rude, it just makes people think you are still ignorant and perhaps not even Christian. I am not saying you are not, I am just pointing out that is what it looks like when you carry on the way you are.

This is about the harshest post I've made so far on Talk Jesus, I have tried to be as nice as possible but there comes a time after much patience where one must rebuke a brother when he continues to be so rude to a sister. There are many ways in which to prove your point so please refrain from being so nasty.

 

[Chad]

Well here I go again with the Holy Spirit leading me to speak.

Go to Matthew Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Mt 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

We are told to go out and tell the good news of Jesus Christ. It is the great commission...
I go into the jails and minister I am just being obedient to My Lord and King Jesus Christ....
We need to understand who Paul was addressing their was trouble in the church.

What part of the GREAT COMISSION does some of you not understand.... It is for all.

Blessings,
debbi rennier

Awesome sister. GOD does not restrict us based on sex when it comes to preaching the gospels. That's ridiculous for anyone to think such a thing, such as ThatGuy is preaching.

"should not take the words of the scripture 'for what they are worth''

Wow, you can't be serious. So what you are saying is, let's believe wholly in the word of God, but when it comes to subject we personally disagree with, then all of a sudden it becomes a bible study? This is a joke. How much more clear can you get than what Paul said, let me post that scripture for you again since you probably tore it out of your bible.

1 Timothy 2:11-12 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

How much more clear can you get? Seriously, you need to check yourself on this one Coconut. And the scriptures you posted are irrelivent because they say nothing about a woman teaching or preaching or being in leadership over men. The scriptures you posted speak about the gifts of the spirit, such as prophesying, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. But whatever, the best advice I can give is to pray about it, I can't change your mind.

You need to humble yourself, otherwise your anxiety will force a blood vessel to pop in your head. You have quite a nasty attitude, and to be honest you show no humility whatsoever. You show no respect and therefore, no Christ-likeness at all. So I would never wish to hear your kind of people preaching anything to me at all.

To understand that verse in scripture you need to understand who Paul was talking to and why. He was not referring to ALL women.

In first-century Jewish culture, women were not allowed to study. When Paul said that women should learn in quietness and full submission, he was offering them an amazing new opportunity. Paul did not want the Epehsian women to teach because they didn't yet have enough knowledge or experience. The Ephesian church had a particular problem with false teachers. Evidently the women were especially susceptible to false teachings (2 Tim 3:1-9), because they did not yet have enough Biblical knowledge to discern the truth. In addition, some of the women were apparently flaunting their new found Christian freedom by wearing inappropriate clothing (2:9). Paul was telling Timothy not to put anyone (in this case, women) into a position of leadership who was not yet mature in the faith (see 5:22). The same prinicple applies to churches today.

God speaks of men not in gender but in general as in human being (man) in most cases. Do you honestly think that women are excluded from God's word altogether? Because if your statement was true, and God intended for only men to do His work, then other Bible verses (like below) won't make any sense and God would surely have said so more clearly.

If your statement were true then explain the scripture:

Romans 2:11 "For God does not show favouritism."

Paul's commended co-worker, Priscilla, taught Apollos, the great preacher (Acts 18:24-26). In addition, Paul frequently mentioned other women who held positions of responsibility in the church. Phoebe worked in the church (Romans 16:1). Mary, Tryphena and Tryphosa were the Lord's workers (Romans 16:6,12) as were Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2).

Paul himself acknowledges that women publicly prayed and prophesied (1 Corinthians 11:5).

And last but not least, if your statement were true, then how can you explain that I know that God has called me to preach?

In fact, God calls everyone, man and women to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth.

Matthew 28:19,20 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

To make disciples of all nations means both men and women of any culture all over the world. We are all disciples, we are all meant to preach the gospel - not just men.

I like the way you clarified this. A lot of people do not realize that Paul was referring to the Ephesian church specifically. That misunderstanding on their part causes a load of confusion.

God bless you, and taking from my other thread that you posted in, why don't you pray about it to get clarity from God? Pray for wisdom in the matter, your exact words. Humble yourself to the slight possibility you might be wrong.

I am literally laughing at your comments here. Humble yourself? And prior you told sister Coconut to "check yourself.."? Pray on it? Good grief. You just cost my knees some pain tonight. I'll be praying for you. Your nothing short of a shipwreck of arrogance and obnoxiousness. You told someone (Coconut) to check herself. She's been saved and been studying the word probably longer than you've been alive. Perhaps the one who needs checking of themselves is you. I think most responses here made that very clear. Your a rude little rascal.

James 1:10 "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry."

James 1:26 "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless."

Matthew 5:22 "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment."

And amen. I bow to the Word of GOD, Jesus. Who can give greater advice than the source of all wisdom? No one.

 

[GetSaved!!]

Judges 4

1And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, when Ehud was dead.

2And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles.

3And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel.

4And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

5And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

If judging isnt a position of authority then what is?

 

[Cody]

Why did God make DEBORAH a judge in Israel (Judges 4:4-5)? The answer is not difficult. God’s perfect will is for men to lead. That is too clear to misinterpret, but when men will not assume their responsibilities, God uses women. The men in Deborah’s day were very weak and cowardly. This is seen in the fact that Barak, the captain of the armies of Israel, refused to go into battle unless Deborah went with him. What a brave man! What a hero! The woman had to remind him that God had said it is time to fight; the woman had to encourage and challenge him to go; the woman had to go with him!

“And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go” (Judges 4:8).

Deborah clearly realized that this was not right nor natural, and she told Barak it would result in shame upon his name. “And she said, I will surely go with thee; notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; FOR THE LORD SHALL SELL SISERA INTO THE HAND OF A WOMAN...” (Judges 4:9).

Obviously it was a period in Israel’s history during which God could find no man to do His will, so He used a brave, willing woman. We can praise God for women like Deborah who are willing to be strong when the men are weak. This has often happened, both in secular and church history.

The root problem in Deborah’s day was spiritual apostasy. When God’s people turn away from Him, He renders the men powerless against their enemies and removes wisdom from their hearts. It is a judgment upon apostate people. We can see this very thing today in apostate North America and Europe. The leaders are weak and seem entirely lacking even in common sense. We cannot control our little children, and women rule over us (compare Isaiah 3:12). It is God’s judgment because of the apostate condition of professing Christendom. Israel in Deborah’s day was in bondage to their enemies only because of their apostasy from the true God and His revealed will recorded in the Scriptures (Judges 4:1-2). This was why the men were so weak. God had removed their power as He did from sinful Samson.

“Therefore the flight shall perish from the swift, and the strong shall not strengthen his force, neither shall the mighty deliver himself. ... And he that is courageous among the mighty shall flee away naked in that day, saith the Lord” (Amos 2:14-15).

WOMEN PREACHERS

 

[Coconut]

Obviously...

The one problem with that message Cody, is it is full of surmising.
[definition" To imagine without certain knowledge; to infer on slight grounds; to suppose, conjecture, or suspect; to guess.]

It looks to me like the author opened his Bible and determined to find some scripture to fit his belief.

Obviously it was a period in Israel’s history during which God could find no man to do His will, so He used a brave, willing woman.

I laughed when I read this...obviously? God could`nt find one man to do His will? Well thats a sad state of affairs, when one is God. I mean, God, being God, is unable to raise up a man? Do I even need to post scripture to deflate this arguement? I surely can...

The men in Deborah’s day were very weak and cowardly.

Wow. Refer to definition.

When men will not assume their responsibilities, God uses women.

Wow. Refer to definition again. He has`nt got one single scripture, let alone two, to wrap up this conclusion...but since I already beat the dead donkey, i`ll digress.

These words also apply to those who are trying to throw off the apostolic teaching referring to woman’s subjection to man in the church and home. "Such are proud, ungodly, and destitute of the truth, and are to be separated from"!

Ahem. Strong words indeed. Am I ungodly? Am I destitute of truth?

Guess the author just pulled those words and that conclusion 'out of thin air' too...so no double honor for a woman huh? Since the verse below precedes the one above... I`ll conclude its alright (must even, or be labeled as above) to give double honor to any woman who serves as an elder in the church, tho I dont know what her office can actually entail, since shes not allowed to speak. The author needs to be careful he does`nt confuse himself, more than what hes already confused the scripture.

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.


"Fundamental truths" wether heralded as Baptist or othewise, should have more foundation than what this author is building on.

Enough said.

 

[Cody]

Sister, there is no where in the Bible where a woman is called to preach. The Bible clearly teaches women not to take authority over man and if a woman can't take authority over man, she can't pastor a church. By the way, are you a feminist?

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

It says the husband, not the wife.

1 Timothy 3:2-4
2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;" KJV

Ephesians 5:21-25
21 "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" KJV

The problem with the world today is most of the men are a bunch of sissies. They don't act like men use to in the Bible. Men are told to be the head of the house and church. Men are to work hard for their money. Men are to love their wives, not cheat on them or beat on them. Men are suppose to keep their family in church. Women are to submit to their husbands, God said it! Women are suppose to love their husbands. Women are to teach children and other women, especially young women. If I read my Bible correctly women are suppose to be keepers of the home. And that "ain't" my country or Baptist teaching, that is what I learn from the precious word of God and I'll believe God over anyone.

Titus 2:3-5
3 "The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." KJV

Enough said.

 

[ladylovesJesus]

God chooses and uses those He chooses to work as preachers and Pastors.Vicars.He choose to weak to confound the wise. Those He chooses He equips. I know there are women Vicars and Preachers in the is country and good ones too. There are a couple and one will lead the morning meeting and preach the Word and the other will do the evening meeting.

God bless

LLJ :rainbow: :rose:

 

[Cody]

God chooses according to His Word and God don't go against His word despite anyones opinion. God's Word is final and He will not change. God is the same God that He has always been. God is not going to rewrite the Bible to fit everyone's feelings.

Romans 3:4
"God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar.." KJV

 

[faithworks]

Well let me ask this Cody, you said God does not lie and that is so true. Well He gave the Great Commission to all people, men and women. He did not lie there either. We are all supposed to be about our Father's business not just men... All humans men and women were put on this earth by God , because He is worthy of all we do, reaching the lost wherever that is... Some on here put to much stock in preachers we are all called to preach the good news........... We do not need a puplit to do in, did Jesus have a puplit, no He went into the highways and byways so should we.

Again I will say that all are called to preach the good news everywhere!!!


Blessings,
debbi

 

[Coconut]

Sister, there is no where in the Bible where a woman is called to preach. The Bible clearly teaches women not to take authority over man and if a woman can't take authority over man, she can't pastor a church. By the way, are you a feminist?

LOL...come here and let me wash your feet...that should allay any fears you have about where I stand (kneel) on feminism.

Cody you seem to be confusing the headship of a man, of his family, with the headship of Christ and His family. The man is the 'head' of his home, Christ is the 'head' of His home [church], and there are no other "heads" in his home. [church]

Let me repeat that. There are no other "heads" but Christ in his church.

I think we all understand this 'home' of Christ is us. You and Me. His home is not a building, and there are no places of 'elevation' for any of His children in His home. That does`nt leave any room for the coveted platform, and the titles we use to elevate ourselves above our brothers and sisters. The man cannot say to the woman, I am above you, nor can the woman say to the man, I am above you, we are equals in His eyes. God is no respecter of persons, or stature, or gender, in regards to which of His children He will give His gifts to. Christ may give any one of us a gift, (to serve) or the ability to speak (with authority), but the ruling authority is Christ.



Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

1Co 12:25 ...that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.

Christ Himself, levels the playing ground here, not me.


I think i`ve asked you this before, what exactly does "preach" mean to you? Any gift a man (or woman) is given to minister (under Christs headship) makes them a servant, it does not elevate them above anyone else. If you dont believe that look up the definition of "minister" in the Strongs Greek.

To minister (under Christs headship - in any capacity) means to serve.

If I be ordained to speak to the people of God as a prophetess, am I to be accused of "taking authority over a man?" Nay, not according to God, who leaves clear instructions for those would be an example to HIS flock, wether they be man or woman:

1Pe 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: feed the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, (watch out for them) not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave.

I grew up in a huge family, and when my parents went away, they often left the elder siblings in charge of us younger ones...(and not on basis of gender) ...think of a preacher or an elder or any gifted man or woman as a glorified babysitter...(servant) and you`ll get the picture pretty quickly of what God expects of those He leaves "in charge" of His home. (Feed the younger ones, keep them safe, try not to wreck the house Dad built and furnished, and try not to kill one another pretty much sums it up)

I also heard plenty of "thats a girls job!" ..and am guilty of saying "thats a boys job" when I was a child...

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, (woman) I gave up childish ways.


All the Queens, Prophetess`, Judges, Elders, Co-workers, ordained by God, and named thruout the annals of scripture as being mightly used by God, (as HIS SERVANTS) should cause you to pause and reflect about your interpretation of those verses you seem stuck on.

Read these words again:

Ephesians 5:21-25
21 "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God (the Parent)

 

[dawngordon]

1 Timothy 2:11-12 proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.”

this is being misinterpreted, you see God calls women prophets and it is all over the bible, now notice the word LEARN, when this was written and still today, it is about a woman who does not abide the whole book and has not listened to holy spirit but spoke from the mouth before LEARNING,but some men do that too heheheh

Take Anna the prophetess for example amongst MANY OTHER female prophets