The Ascension

[EphremHagos]

Is not the so-called "Ascension", as a post-resurrection happening, an add-on to and/or takeaway from the prophetic words of Jesus Christ that causes eternal punishment?

 

[B-A-C]

Is not the so-called "Ascension", as a post-resurrection happening, an add-on to and/or takeaway from the prophetic words of Jesus Christ that causes eternal punishment?

I assume you are talking about the rapture here?

Jesus is coming back... but when?

John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to
prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there
you may be also.

1Thess 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Thess 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Acts 1:9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him
out of their sight.
Acts 1:10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood
beside them.
Acts 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up
from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

=======================================================================
A secret event. No signs, no warnings. (The Rapture)

Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mark 13:33 "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
Mark 13:34 "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge,
assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
Mark 13:35 "Therefore, be on the alert--for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the
evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
Mark 13:36 in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.
Mark 13:37 "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"

1Thess 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Thess 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains
upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Thess 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1Thess 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1Thess 5:6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
1Thess 5:7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.

Matt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Matt 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Matt 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of
Man be.
Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was
coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He
will.

Matt 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them
their food at the proper time?
Matt 24:46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Matt 24:47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Matt 24:48 ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Matt 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Matt 24:50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not
know,
Matt 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping
and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet
the bridegroom.
Matt 25:2 "Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.
Matt 25:3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,
Matt 25:4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.
Matt 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.
Matt 25:6 "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'
Matt 25:7 "Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
Matt 25:8 "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
Matt 25:9 "But the prudent answered, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and
buy some for yourselves.'
Matt 25:10 "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went
in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.
Matt 25:11 "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
Matt 25:12 "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'
Matt 25:13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

Luke 17:20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and
said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your
midst."
Luke 17:22 And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of
Man, and you will not see it.

===========================================================================================
Most believe the tribulation of Revelation happen between the rapture and the second coming.
Most believe this to be a period of close to seven years.
============================================================================================
Jesus coming back in Power and Glory (The 2nd Coming)

After the tribulation, and the apostacy happens, and the beast is revealed, Jesus will come back again.

2Thess2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together
to Him,
2Thess2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a
letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thess2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of
lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

This is the opposite of what is said about the rapture. Now we have some signs. It will not be "as a thief in the night", but with trumpets and lightning and an army.

1Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen
asleep in Jesus.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the
Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the
trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thess 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Those who saved during the tribulation will be caught up with him.

Rev 1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the
tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white
horses.
Rev 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them
with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which
fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the
flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat
on the horse and against His army.

Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour
which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Rev 3:11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
1Cor 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
1Cor 15:24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule
and all authority and power.

Jesus has all power and authority now, but eventually he will give it back to the father.

1Cor 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in
subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected
all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead
will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2Thess1:7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from
heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
2Thess1:8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord
Jesus.
2Thess1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of
His power,
2Thess1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have
believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

Matt 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple
buildings to Him.
Matt 24:2 And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left
upon another, which will not be torn down."
Matt 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will
these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Matt 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Matt 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must
take place, but that is not yet the end.
Matt 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be
famines and earthquakes.
Matt 24:8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Matt 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because
of My name.
Matt 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Matt 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Matt 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Matt 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Matt 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and
then the end will come.
Matt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet,
standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matt 24:16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

When the rapture happens, don't turn back...

Matt 24:17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Matt 24:18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
Matt 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Matt 24:20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

After the rapture, then the tribulation.

Matt 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world
until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those
days will be cut short.
Matt 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead,
if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner
rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will
mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Notice it says AFTER the tribulation here.
Those who make it through the tribulation (also those Christians who are killed during the tribulation) will be taken up with the rest.

Matt 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its
leaves, you know that summer is near;
Matt 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
Matt 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matt 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

Jude 1:14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold,
the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
Jude 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have
done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

NOTE: Enoch is not a canonized book of the Bible.
Enoch 1:9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Rev 6:12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as
sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;

We see that after the sixth seal of the tribulation is opened, the sun turns black and the moon turns red like blood.
This is also mentioned in Acts.

Acts 2:19 'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF
SMOKE.
Acts 2:20 'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE
LORD SHALL COME.

It says after this happens, then the GLORIOUS DAY of the LORD will happen. (Not before the tribulation)
When Jesus comes back this time, it won't be a secret thing like a thief in the night. It will be in Glory and Power.

Luke 17:23 "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.
Luke 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the
sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
Luke 17:25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Luke 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luke 17:27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day
that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying,
they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luke 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them
all.
Luke 17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take
them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.
Luke 17:33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:36 ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
Luke 17:37 And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the
vultures will be gathered."

Matt 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY
MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

Dan 7:7 "After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and
extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet;
and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:19 "Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others,
exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down
the remainder with its feet,
Dan 7:20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which
three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in
appearance than its associates.
Dan 7:21 "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
Dan 7:22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the
time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
Dan 7:23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the
other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.

If Jesus comes and destroys all of the armies of the beast (evil people left on the earth) at the same time as the
rapture, and the rapture is before the tribulation, then the beast never has time to conquer the earth. But this
isn't what the Bible says. So there is no way the rapture and second coming could be a single event.

Dan 7:24 'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he
will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to
make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Dan 7:26 'But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed
forever.
Dan 7:27 'Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be
given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the
dominions will serve and obey Him.'

Like you said, taking away from the scriptures is also an offense.

 

[EphremHagos]

I assume you are talking about the rapture here?

Jesus is coming back... but when?

John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to
prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there
you may be also.

1Thess 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Thess 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

Acts 1:9 And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him
out of their sight.
Acts 1:10 And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood
beside them.
Acts 1:11 They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up
from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

=======================================================================
A secret event. No signs, no warnings. (The Rapture)

Mark 13:32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mark 13:33 "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
Mark 13:34 "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge,
assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
Mark 13:35 "Therefore, be on the alert--for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the
evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
Mark 13:36 in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.
Mark 13:37 "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"

1Thess 5:2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1Thess 5:3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains
upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1Thess 5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1Thess 5:5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1Thess 5:6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
1Thess 5:7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.

Matt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Matt 24:37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Matt 24:38 "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage,
until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of
Man be.
Matt 24:40 "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41 "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was
coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He
will.

Matt 24:45 "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them
their food at the proper time?
Matt 24:46 "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Matt 24:47 "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Matt 24:48 ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Matt 24:49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Matt 24:50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not
know,
Matt 24:51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping
and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet
the bridegroom.
Matt 25:2 "Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.
Matt 25:3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,
Matt 25:4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.
Matt 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.
Matt 25:6 "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'
Matt 25:7 "Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
Matt 25:8 "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
Matt 25:9 "But the prudent answered, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and
buy some for yourselves.'
Matt 25:10 "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went
in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.
Matt 25:11 "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
Matt 25:12 "But he answered, 'Truly I say to you, I do not know you.'
Matt 25:13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.

Luke 17:20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and
said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your
midst."
Luke 17:22 And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of
Man, and you will not see it.

===========================================================================================
Most believe the tribulation of Revelation happen between the rapture and the second coming.
Most believe this to be a period of close to seven years.
============================================================================================
Jesus coming back in Power and Glory (The 2nd Coming)

After the tribulation, and the apostacy happens, and the beast is revealed, Jesus will come back again.

2Thess2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together
to Him,
2Thess2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a
letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thess2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of
lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

This is the opposite of what is said about the rapture. Now we have some signs. It will not be "as a thief in the night", but with trumpets and lightning and an army.

1Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen
asleep in Jesus.
1Thess 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the
Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the
trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thess 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in
the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Those who saved during the tribulation will be caught up with him.

Rev 1:7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the
tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white
horses.
Rev 19:15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them
with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
Rev 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which
fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the
flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat
on the horse and against His army.

Rev 3:10 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour
which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Rev 3:11 'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
1Cor 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
1Cor 15:24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule
and all authority and power.

Jesus has all power and authority now, but eventually he will give it back to the father.

1Cor 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
1Cor 15:26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
1Cor 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in
subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
1Cor 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected
all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

1Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead
will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

2Thess1:7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from
heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
2Thess1:8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord
Jesus.
2Thess1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of
His power,
2Thess1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have
believed--for our testimony to you was believed.

Matt 24:1 Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple
buildings to Him.
Matt 24:2 And He said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left
upon another, which will not be torn down."
Matt 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will
these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.
Matt 24:5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.
Matt 24:6 "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must
take place, but that is not yet the end.
Matt 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be
famines and earthquakes.
Matt 24:8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.
Matt 24:9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because
of My name.
Matt 24:10 "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
Matt 24:11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Matt 24:12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.
Matt 24:13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Matt 24:14 "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and
then the end will come.
Matt 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet,
standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matt 24:16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

When the rapture happens, don't turn back...

Matt 24:17 "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Matt 24:18 "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
Matt 24:19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Matt 24:20 "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

After the rapture, then the tribulation.

Matt 24:21 "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world
until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those
days will be cut short.
Matt 24:23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead,
if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner
rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Matt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will
mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Notice it says AFTER the tribulation here.
Those who make it through the tribulation (also those Christians who are killed during the tribulation) will be taken up with the rest.

Matt 24:32 "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its
leaves, you know that summer is near;
Matt 24:33 so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
Matt 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matt 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

Jude 1:14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold,
the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
Jude 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have
done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

NOTE: Enoch is not a canonized book of the Bible.
Enoch 1:9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly: And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

Rev 6:12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as
sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;

We see that after the sixth seal of the tribulation is opened, the sun turns black and the moon turns red like blood.
This is also mentioned in Acts.

Acts 2:19 'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF
SMOKE.
Acts 2:20 'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE
LORD SHALL COME.

It says after this happens, then the GLORIOUS DAY of the LORD will happen. (Not before the tribulation)
When Jesus comes back this time, it won't be a secret thing like a thief in the night. It will be in Glory and Power.

Luke 17:23 "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.
Luke 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the
sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.
Luke 17:25 "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Luke 17:26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luke 17:27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day
that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying,
they were selling, they were planting, they were building;
Luke 17:29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them
all.
Luke 17:30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 17:31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take
them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife.
Luke 17:33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:36 ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
Luke 17:37 And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the
vultures will be gathered."

Matt 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY
MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

Dan 7:7 "After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and
extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet;
and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:19 "Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others,
exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down
the remainder with its feet,
Dan 7:20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which
three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in
appearance than its associates.
Dan 7:21 "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
Dan 7:22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the
time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
Dan 7:23 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the
other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.

If Jesus comes and destroys all of the armies of the beast (evil people left on the earth) at the same time as the
rapture, and the rapture is before the tribulation, then the beast never has time to conquer the earth. But this
isn't what the Bible says. So there is no way the rapture and second coming could be a single event.

Dan 7:24 'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he
will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25 'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to
make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Dan 7:26 'But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed
forever.
Dan 7:27 'Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be
given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the
dominions will serve and obey Him.'

Like you said, taking away from the scriptures is also an offense.

I am opposing the use of concepts, like the Ascension and the Rapture. Even if they are completely foreign to the Biblical lingua franca and divert attention away from the really important things, many Christians continue to use them freely.

In particular, the so-called "second coming of Christ" clearly contradicts his absolute authority and promise of sustainable presence with believers to the end of the age. (Matt. 28: 18-20)

Wish that I am wrong! What do you think?

 

[B-A-C]

I am opposing the use of concepts, like the Ascension and the Rapture. Even if they are completely foreign to the Biblical lingua franca and divert attention away from the really important things, many Christians continue to use them freely.

In particular, the so-called "second coming of Christ" clearly contradicts his absolute authority and promise of sustainable presence with believers to the end of the age. (Matt. 28: 18-20)

Wish that I am wrong! What do you think?

The word "rapture" is not in the Bible, rapture merely means "a gathering up". The Bible clearly teaches believers will be gathered up with Christ.

As for ascension, it is in the Bible many times.
John 3:13; John 20:17; Acts 2:34; Eph 4:8-10; John 6:62; Luke 9:51; Acts 1:9-11

I'm not sure what you consider "the end of the age".
But 1Cor 15:24-28 says Jesus will give the authority back to the father.

 

[EphremHagos]

The word "rapture" is not in the Bible, rapture merely means "a gathering up". The Bible clearly teaches believers will be gathered up with Christ.

As for ascension, it is in the Bible many times.
John 3:13; John 20:17; Acts 2:34; Eph 4:8-10; John 6:62; Luke 9:51; Acts 1:9-11

I'm not sure what you consider "the end of the age".
But 1Cor 15:24-28 says Jesus will give the authority back to the father.

All unoriginal words, without any exception, e.g., rapture and ascension, used by casual Christians who neither have firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ nor are his disciples, have a tendecy to undergo significant modifications in meanings.

Thus, "going up to heaven" (John 3:13), "going back up to where he was before" (Ibid, 6:62), "going back up to the Father" (Ibid, 20: 17), etc. have far more radical meanings intrinsic to Christ's death on the cross than is commonly assumed and propagated by the churches today.

I am convinced that "the end of the age" (Matt. 28:20) is a timeless concept referring to "the last days" as prophesied (Joel 2), fulfilled in Jesus' last words, "It is finished" (John 19: 30), repeatedly rehearsed over 40 days (Acts 1: 1-5) and fully and powerfully acknowledged (Acts 2) but abandoned in our time.

 

[B-A-C]

All unoriginal words, without any exception, e.g., rapture and ascension, used by casual Christians who neither have firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ nor are his disciples, have a tendecy to undergo significant modifications in meanings.

Thus, "going up to heaven" (John 3:13), "going back up to where he was before" (Ibid, 6:62), "going back up to the Father" (Ibid, 20: 17), etc. have far more radical meanings intrinsic to Christ's death on the cross than is commonly assumed and propagated by the churches today.

I am convinced that "the end of the age" (Matt. 28:20) is a timeless concept referring to "the last days" as prophesied (Joel 2), fulfilled in Jesus' last words, "It is finished" (John 19: 30), repeatedly rehearsed over 40 days (Acts 1: 1-5) and fully and powerfully acknowledged (Acts 2) but abandoned in our time.

Thanks for your opinion.
I would add that the book of Ibid is not canonized in the Bible.