The 7 most sobering passages in the Bible

[B-A-C]

1.

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Why are these people calling Jesus "Lord"?
How did they have the power to prophecy, cast out demons and do miracles?
Did Jesus tell them to depart from Him because they didn't believe in Him, or because they kept on "practicing" sin?
What is the difference between these people and yourself?

 

[B-A-C]

This isn't the second passage yet, this is further contemplation on the passage above.

1Cor 12:3; Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Jesus said Satan doesn't "cast out" his own demons.

Luke 11:17; But He knew their thoughts and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.
Luke 11:18; "If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.

Was it the Holy Spirit that caused them to say Jesus is Lord?
Did they cast out demons and prophesy by the Holy Spirit?

 

[Sue D.]

@ B-A-C -- yes, lots of good questions.

 

[Reba1]

Matthew Henry....
Matthew 7:13-23
SEEKING LIFE; TESTING LEADERS
The world is full of shams. Counterfeit coins circulate; paste jewels are worn. Let us take heed against a counterfeit religion. It betrays itself thus:
(1) It does not involve the denial of self. Our Lord compares this to entrance by a strait gate and walking on a narrow path. It is the way of the Cross. We must say “No” to the “I” life which is seated in our soul and which must be ruthlessly denied. We must say of it as Peter did of Jesus, “I do not know the man.” The way of self-indulgence begins on a primrose path and ends in a wilderness. The path of self-denial is steep and difficult at the start, but leads to a paradise of joy.
(2) It does not produce good fruit. The worth of the gospel has been attested all down the ages by the characters which it has produced and which have been the world’s salt and light. No other teaching has produced such results. Here is the supreme test. There are many new systems of theology, many nostrums are being loudly advertised, but the one test of them all is in the fruit they bear.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dearest Brother,
What I see in these verses is a duplicity of thought and action. In other words, what motivates those that call themselves believers.
I find this in Acts 8, in Simon who was a Sorcerer of some renown in the area of question, before becoming a believer. The two verses of
this story that I see that are pertinent to what our Lord said of those that He never knew them, are as follows:

Act 8:20 NKJV - But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:23 NKJV - "For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."

The opportunity for change is available to those, who due to pride, or some unrepentant sin continue on a path of self-righteousness. However,
who with perceived authority ever sees themselves as being in the wrong in what they do or say? Who comes to mind is an Apologist who recently
passed away Ravi Zacharias. No one who has listened to him, could say that he did not have a clarity of mind/intellect, that allowed him to converse with
the most ardent of non-believers, in terms that many understood communicated the Truth of Scripture, and Christ as few others could since CS Lewis.

However, what has come to the public, is a morality issue, that was never brought to light, until his passing. Will he be one of those identified in the verses
you bring to light in this thread? I do not know, and you have rightly said/asked " What is the difference between these people and yourself?"

Whose righteousness saves us?
Whose Glory, Honor, and Praise are we seeking?
Why do we do what we do?

Phil 2:12 NKJV - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Phil 2:13 NKJV - for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure.
Phil 3:12 NKJV - Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
Phil 3:13 NKJV - Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,

Thank-you for bringing up this part of Scripture, that weighted heavy upon my Spirit for many a year. Not verses, that are easy to contemplate in light of ones own imperfection. Who would
or I should say, could not but help question oneself in light of such a revelation as whose works surely outweigh anything I have done, and I'm sure many others?

If these questions lay upon the heart and mind of a believer, then I would suggest the following verses be your supplication to the Lord!

Psa 139:23 NKJV - Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me, and know my anxieties;
Psa 139:24 NKJV - And see if [there is any] wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting.

Again thank-you brother, and with the Love of Christ Jesus.
God bless.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

Seems that there was an individual on Forum who believed that any born again believer is able to cast out demons. He was using the Mark 16 passage. Said he'd been in a situation where he actually has cast out demons from both himself and others. That if a person is Not doing those things then maybe they aren't really saved. The speaking in tongues was another 'sign'.

I was looking that up -- Mark 16:9 - 20 is a passage that is marked "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have vs 9 - 20."

 

[B-A-C]

I was looking that up -- Mark 16:9 - 20 is a passage that is marked "The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have vs 9 - 20."

OK. I will concede that. But even if this is true... by what power did they do these things?

 

[Sue D.]

I've just been looking at the ending of the other Gospels -- the thing added was vs 17-18 in Mark.

Jesus Christ was giving them the power. Seems that there's another incident with the snakes, etc. -- will look that up.

 

[Sue D.]

@B-A-C -- there is another passage in Luke 10 -- Jesus Christ is sending out 72 others to go out 2 x 2 to towns / villages. When they returned -- vs 17 They were filled with joy because even the demons submit to us in Your name. vs 18 " He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, I have given your authority to trample on snakes and scorpions, and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. vs 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

Vs 21 "At that time Jesus, full of job through the Holy Spirit , said, "I praise you, Father, lord of heaven and earth , because you have hidden those things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."

There are those who say that since Jesus Christ gave those 72 that power -- that everyone can do that If they are close enough to God or if they Ask to be able to do those things. Basing it on the passage "Ask , seek, knock......"

But it was a one-time situation with those 72 chosen by Jesus Christ. Another thought -- were they in a geographical area with lots of snakes and scorpions and a place with lots of demon- possession existing?

 

[B-A-C]

I think we are losing focus here. The point here isn't the demons, or serpents or tongues or any of that.

This first post is about Matt 7:21-23; lets not get too distracted with verses about demons and snakes.

Who are these people, what makes them different from you. (Not you, as in Sue, but you as in everyone reading this thread).

 

[Reba1]

Exo 7:8 And the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
Exo 7:9 When Pharaoh shall speak unto you, saying, Shew a miracle for you: then thou shalt say unto Aaron, Take thy rod, and cast it before Pharaoh, and it shall become a serpent.
Exo 7:10 And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Exo 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
Exo 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.
Exo 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

There’s a scientist and God. And the scientist challenges God to a contest of who can make the better human being. God tells him that he’s on, at which time the scientist, in great delight, bends over to pick up some dust to make his human being. Then God says, ‘No, no … you go and find your own dust.’

 

[B-A-C]

2.

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Heb 6:7; For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
Heb 6:8; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

Are these people saved? It says in verse 4 they were partakers of the Holy Spirit.
Verse 6 has the word "again" twice. You can't do something "again" unless you've already done it once.
They already repented once, they've already accepted the crucifixion of Jesus.
... but then, they fall away. Only believers can fall away. Unbeliever don't have anything to fall away from.

Jesus is the water of life. He is the vine and we are the branches. We can't do anything without Him. We can't grow anything without Him.
But even the plants that receive rain.... some bring forth fruit, and others bring forth thorns and thistles.
The Bible says some trees bear bad fruit, some trees bear good fruit, some trees start to bear fruit but never finish, and some trees never bear fruit even with Jesus tending to them.
The trees that bear thorns and refuse to bear fruit... end up being burned up.

I don't believe this passage is saying "if you've ever sinned, it's too late for you".
Rather it is saying if you ever reach that place of apostasy, and totally turn your back on God after receiving Him.... it is impossible to come back to repentance.

Luke 9:62; But Jesus said to him, "No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

 

[Sue D.]

If a person Has accepted and then totally turn their backs -- were they truly saved in the 1st place?! What would cause a person to Do that, though.

Maybe that person has been around church -- around people being born-again and seeing the change in them -- professing to do the same thing and then turn their backs on it.

Something similar to that happened when I was in high school. Some of the guys had been witnessing to a friend in local high school. He agreed to come to church with them. Went forward to accept Christ as personal Savior. Everyone was thrilled for him. He never came back. He'd done what they'd asked and then he was finished with it.

 

[B-A-C]

If a person Has accepted and then totally turn their backs -- were they truly saved in the 1st place?!

I frequently hear this argument from some Christians.

But how can they fall away from some place they've never been? I can't fall off a cliff, unless I was on the cliff to begin with.
If I never climbed to the top of the cliff. I can't fall off. If I was never a Christian, I can't fall away, I'm already at the bottom.

Also it says they had the Holy Spirit, can an unbeliever have the Holy Spirit?

Finally it says they are repenting "again" and crucifying Jesus "again".
I can't do something again, unless I've done it at least once.
This isn't saying they were never saved. It's saying they were saved, fall away, and now they want to come back.
I can't "come back" to a place I've never been.
I can't be renewed again, unless I was already renewed at least once.

 

[Sue D.]

@ B-A-C That passage in Hebrews 6:4 -- "and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit". what exactly does That mean. "partakers" of.

 

[B-A-C]

Definition of PARTAKE

to take part in or experience something along with others; to have a portion (as of food or drink); to possess or share a certain nature or attribute… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of partake

intransitive verb
1: to take part in or experience something along with others partake in the revelry partake of the good life
2: to have a portion (as of food or drink)were invited to partake of a dinner
3: to possess or share a certain nature or attribute the experience partakes of a mystical quality partake in each other's sorrows and joys

Take part in or experience.... I didn't watch someone play a football, I myself played in the game. I took part in it. I'm doing this with others, yes. (I can't play football by myself) but I'm a part of it.
To have a portion of. I didn't watch you drink the water, I drank some of the water myself. I consumed it, I partook of it.
To possess or share an attribute. I didn't see someone else possess it, I myself possessed it inside me.

In my church we have communion from time to time.
If you are saved, you can "partake" of communion. If you aren't, you shouldn't take communion.
You might be a person in the service with people all around you "partaking" of the bread and the'wine'". But you yourself are not partaking. (at least you shouldn't be).

 

[Sue D.]

No easy answers.

That's been #1 -- when to proceed to #2?

 

[B-A-C]

That's been #1 -- when to proceed to #2?

Post #12 was passage #2.

 

[Sue D.]

I just looked back at it -- sure enough a #2.

 

[B-A-C]

#3.

Matt 5:13; "You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. ( see Mark 9:50; and Luke 14:34-25; )
Matt 5:14; "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;
Matt 5:15; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.
Matt 5:16; "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Matt 5:17; "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Matt 5:18; "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

We Christians are supposed to be the salt and light of the world. We are supposed to be living like Jesus, loving people and helping people.
But it says here we can lose our "saltiness" if we aren't careful. Once that happens we aren't good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled, Luke 14 says it's good for the manure pile.

Jesus says here, whoever teaches us not to do the commandments, will be called the least in heaven.
You may be thinking, well at least I'll be in the kingdom of heaven, so that's not so bad. But Jesus said He will take the troublemakers out of the kingdom and throw them out. ( Matt 13:41; )