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Temple tax?

After doing quite a bit more praying and digging into sources online and in books, and reviewing this thread again several times, it seems that what is happening here is we're looking at two different taxes. Given the context and Jesus' reply to Peter, it appears the passage in Mtt 17:24-27 is referring to the temple tax that was given under the Law in Exodus 30:11-16. The passage in Mtt 22:15-22, however, is a Roman tax that cross-references to the passage in Lk 20:19-26 and was a census tax levied by the Roman government. Both times, the religious establishment was trying to trap Jesus, and both times, He saw right through their ploy and responded accordingly.

Of course sedition and refusing to pay taxes to Caesar still became part of the trumped-up charges against Him when He went before Pilate:

Luke 23:1-2
1 And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
2 And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
 
Where do you read that king Herod rebuilt the temple?
Wasn't that done after the Jews returned from Babylon?
Cant remember exactly where I read it but its known history you can look it up on wikipedia.
Temple 1 was king solomon..that got destroyed and then temple 2 was talked about in Nehemiah, and was still being expanded when Herod was king. But he kind of took ownership of it. It took ages to rebuild the temple..but King Herod expanded it even more.
 
Cant remember exactly where I read it but its known history you can look it up on wikipedia.
Temple 1 was king solomon..that got destroyed and then temple 2 was talked about in Nehemiah, and was still being expanded when Herod was king. But he kind of took ownership of it. It took ages to rebuild the temple..but King Herod expanded it even more.
In John 2:20, it says it took 46 years to build the temple.
I see no other temple being built after the one built by those returning from Babylonian captivity.
 
From what I gather.. Herod didn't "rebuild" the temple. Rather he "remodeled" or for you HGTV fans... He hired Chip and Joanna Gaines to do a "Fixer Upper" on it.
 
Think it was extreme home renovation. He added lots of bells and whistles like a shop where you could buy your sacrifice and colonnades so you didnt even have to get wet when you parked your horse/donkey.. Basically King Herod turned it into a mall.
 
Greetings,

Tribute_penny

Emperor_Tiberius_Denarius_-_Tribute_Penny.jpg


Thanks to Wikipedia for this image. It's the Roman Denarius, probably the subject of the "render unto Caesar" debate. The inscription reads “Ti[berivs] Caesar Divi Avg[vsti] F[ilivs] Avgvstvs” (“Caesar Augustus Tiberius, son of the Divine Augustus”), claiming that Augustus was a god, and Tiberius the 'son of God'.

That's part of the reason why Jesus' answer confounded the Herodians and Pharisees in their hypocrisy. He's asking, who are you serving, the One True God, or this Roman pretender to the throne?

The incident in Matthew 17, I think, is the temple tax. Here, Jesus is saying "my disciples owe their allegiance to one greater than the temple."

One thing we always find in Jesus is that He had perfect answers. Sometimes we see only one angle but on examination, His answers and teaching were addressing more than one type of audience and even today, the many different peoples throughout the world can and do see truth in His words. (I am reminded here that He is the Truth as well as the Word)

As Hekuran pointed out with the picture he provided for us, the Herodians would have been somewhat baffled and left speechless, particularly against Jesus and His disciples. Render unto God what is God's would appear to be an agreement or acknowledgement regarding the way the Herodians viewed their gods and the use of inscriptions on coins to express their thoughts. Therefore they are totally disarmed should anyone try to suggest that Jesus was being dissident in His teaching regarding money and the taxes. Likewise, to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's would imply that the words and teaching He gave were in no way opposing the rule of Caesar. On the contrary and additionally, the answer Jesus gave would have appealed to their way of thinking and reasoning - relativism.

But for His disciples and for us, too, the words He spoke concerning the children being exempt from taxes implied that as heirs to the Kingdom, which is not of this world, render to give unto God what is God's as to mean that we give our allegiance to God, our Father and are fully exempt from doing as the citizens of this world do, nonetheless, in order to not have accusations against the Gospel, we ought pay taxes as requested. If you live in a country and use its money then it is only fitting to abide by the rules of its use.
Some may suggest that Jesus was avoiding any action against Himself, but that needs to be in context of the will of His father, namely that for Jesus to be totally free of any accusation brought against Him, that no man nor satan could accuse Him of any valid wrong. Jesus backed up His teaching to the Disciples and to those who would follow with the miracle of the coin in the fishes mouth.
Surely Jesus could have said He wasn't paying and given reason and been prosecuted for it and like Daniel and his friends come out of the fire alive so the thought of fear of dying or attempted execution or the like would not be an issue to Him. Instead we see an entirely pure reason for His answer, not only preventing His death from happening before the appointed time, and as said, that He would remain blameless (which is the only way He could effect being the propitiation for our sins, the exchange for us, a spotless lamb) while also keeping His Disciples safe from premature persecution and being dragged before the authorities.
He was also teaching His Disciples the reality and truth of who they were and who those would follow Him would also become. Throughout the Gospels we witness the ongoing instruction He gave His Disciples, teaching them about the new relationship of the new testament and covenant of God.
To the Jews, the Pharisee and Sadducee and High Priests and Scribes and Lawyers (instructors in the Law of Moses) and even the Levite, He offered no reason for blasphemy nor insult against the Law leaving no room for any accusation from them or the decreasing Law which Jesus was obliged to keep and follow as a Jew. (again we see also a protection of His Disciples here)

Christ was not teaching revolt and anti authority mindsets. His message was and is the Gospel of the Kingdom, which brings Life to those who hear it, regardless of who they are or where they are. It has nothing to do with anarchy nor dissension. It is an invitation to enter in... to be in the world but not of it; to become citizens (fellow citizens) with the saints in the kingdom of God and heirs of the promise of Salvation. The Apostles taught likewise.

As children (except ye become as children ye can not enter the Kingdom of God) we certainly don't have to pay our Father any taxes!

Let the world do as it will. We who believe belong to the Lord and seek to do His will, only.


Bless you ....><>
 
Greetings again,

The Temple that Herod built/rebuilt (however you want to put it) and all of Jerusalem was as magnificent as the world will ever see. The Romans had no interest in the Temple for their own use and were content that the Jews use it for their purpose. Other citizens of the Roman Empire were compelled to pay homage to the Roman gods and Caesar(s). Not so the Jews.

A tax for upkeep was a reasonable thing, given that while it was for the use of the Jews, it was still very much part of the Roman Empire at that time and they had the last word on who pays what. Fair enough, too.

Another dynamic was in place which we still see today. One way to put it is, "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."
The Romans didn't want resurgence from the Jewish people scattered throughout its empire and the Jews didn't want oppression and genocide against them. Happy meet in the middle agreements were in place. However, Rome (and Caesar) was still the boss. Keeping the Jews safe cost and that cost was not an indulgence or gift from Caesar but was extracted in part from the Jews in the form of taxes as well as other benefits/offsets.

There was nothing untoward about any taxes and yet avoiding or refusing to pay them was an offence.
Same as today in many countries.
However, The LORD was in the process of changing all that relationship.
After AD 70 taxes from Jews ceased to be a consideration. Those who were not slain, fled. The Temple and the whole of Jerusalem was completely destroyed.

Let us learn from the history we have and listen to the Lord while there is yet time. If that was the fate of His People then, do you really think the generation today will be spared?


Bless you ....><>
 
Where the temple used to be now muslims have built the dome of the rock and claim it for islam, nobody can actually go there and worship God anymore..unless they believe He is Allah, which He isnt.

There are still remnants of Herods big construction and the base of the (expanded) temple wall, where jewish people wail and post prayers. But the temple itself was completely destroyed no stone was left.

If they want to rebuild it again they could be charging their own citizens tax but even back in OT times this was crippling for the nation and it ended up splitting the kingdom into two.

When the Romans took it over the second time the israelites compromised and basically let idols into the temple which God was not pleased with as you may have guessed. Even king solomon, who built the original one added things that were not necessary for his own glory, it was meant to be for Gods glory alone and according to His specifications- where He could dwell and meet with the people not a showcase or monument for man. That was where the holy of holies and the mercy seat where- Gods throne. But now through Jesus all that is in heaven and open to us through the holy spirit who dwells IN us - christ's body, the church.

Most people dont like paying tax..especially the wealthy! They will do anything to avoid paying tax even cheat on their returns..big businesses like Apple I think who make billions of dollars dont pay one cent, when small businesses get squeezed.

There are some countries that dont have taxes, like Greece, but their social welfare is a shambles. There are some that make all their money from gambling and so they use that like Monaco I think.

But what is certain in life is death and taxes. Gods way is that we pay whatever voluntarily rather than Him charging us. He doesnt charge us for salvation, it is given freely, cos Jesus paid the price.

We then offer ourselves as a living sacrifice..and thank Him for everything He has done. So what does the Lord really require from us...not money but a thankful heart.

In nz we have GST so whenever you buy something you pay tax. It was 12.5 percent and its now included on the price of everything, GST stands for goods and services. It used to be people calculated this tax everytime you paid for something, you pay the cost of it and then add the tax on top, but what retailers do is mark it up on any goods they sell, and service industries (this is why we dont tip, as americans do)

You cant really get out of paying it. On invoices it says how much the GST is, all this goes to the govt to help run the country..meant to be for schools, hospitals, pensions etc. Local govts have a rating system which is tax on land, and its used for roads, collecting rubbish, public libraries, parks etc.

Employers have PAYE which means pay as you earn, so that money is taken out of our pay before we even hace a chance to spend it.

Sometimes these taxes can be unfair if the govt is misusing the money...or we paying for aomething we dont actually benefit from, for example the govt spends it all in one area but other people miss out. Like some towns may not have a rubbish removal service or footpaths and yet they still paying the same rates as everyone else. Or, is in case of my own life...govt cuts back spending on public libraries that helps everyone read esp those that cant afford books and pours money into tourism, which only foreigners really benefit from. Or they go into debt for huge white elephant building projects.

This is when people get contentious and rebellious..it can be a real sore point. Some people who can claim the benefit actually do lie and cheat the system, receiving money when they not actually entitled. Or using it for overseas trips etc, lining their own pocket.

This is what zAccheus confessed to doing.

Just one thing to Add, (sorry I have much to say on this topic, its quite interesting!) is ...the temple was in Jerusalem which was in Judea's tribal land, so the reason why the jewish people were richer than the other tribes was because the centre was there and everyone had to go to celebrate the feasts and passover etc, so the rest of Israel was going to Judea and they could charge for using the temple. Well they could be tempted to. And they did...letting the Romans take over.

The jewish people then started to act like they were entitled which the rest of Israel resented. Of course God had said rulers would come out of Judahs' line but he meant the Messiah - Jesus.
 
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