So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!

[KingJ]

As I said.. someone here is confused.

You accuse everyone who disagrees with you as being wrong. You accuse people of avoiding questions when they don't answer like you want them to. Your questions have been answered as directly as possible.. but you refuse to see it.

The only time you need to take my disagreements with your belief seriously are when I accuse your belief of misrepresenting God by incriminating Him as partial and unjust. Surely we can all agree that according to scripture God is not unjust and partial. Scripture is crystal clear that He is just Job 34:12, impartial Rom 2:11 and righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

I wonder to myself how it is that you just 'don't' understand how off track your take of what it is to be a Christian is. I mean for 'crying out aloud', how in 'the universe' do you not grasp the seriousness of the two factual observations I consistently raise on your belief?

Me - God properly vet's our hearts when we repent and grafts us into His family for all eternity.

You - God looks at how you finish the race to see whether or not you belong in eternal heaven or eternal hell.

As such, with your 'take':

David to eternal torment in fire. 'He started well, but ended terribly'. Criminal off to eternal bliss. 'He started wrong but ended rightl'.

God is unjust and partial. 1. Unjust - Different set of requirements for salvation. 2 Partial - Why not end David's life 6 hours after He decided to truly serve God as with the criminal?

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You need to understand that God and only God can properly vet a person. For all eternity our salvation is secure because of this. With your take, it is not. I am surprised you don't also believe that many will come and go between heaven and hell.

Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? “I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”

 

[Bill]

Because we do not believe them to be the church fathers.

It was one church for at least a thousand years, and then it has become a divided church for another Thousand Years. When Jesus returns it will be a reunited one Church in Jesus.

Don't sit there and tell me that the Protestants are also United because they're not. There are so many divisions within the churches it is crazy. I know for a fact that the Church of God has at least 100 splinters to it. Don't believe me, go try driving down some Road in Kentucky and you'll run across the first one, and then you go to the next one and you ask them if they're the same group and they'll say no and you go to the next one down the same road 3 miles down the road you'll come across another one and you'll ask him if they're affiliated with the other two and they'll say no and it will continue that way for 50 churches in a row down the same road.

That's just the Church of God. Then you have the United Church of God same thing, you have the Baptist Methodist I don't care which church you go to it's the same way.

This all goes back to the vision that the Lord gave me years ago, that there was a multitude of churches from the oldest to the youngest. And what the Lord said to me was that there were many many people in all of these churches that loved him. And that he, God loved all of them.

The Lord seem less concerned about the fact that they were all different in their concepts of God, or how people felt they needed to believe such as Saturday worship or Sunday worship he was more concerned about the fact that they loved him.

I think it is more important to follow the laws of God. Love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus doesn't say anything about being so concerned about what day a person worships on, what was more important is that they did worship God

 

[KingJ]

You accuse everyone who disagrees with you as being wrong. You accuse people of avoiding questions when they don't answer like you want them to. Your questions have been answered as directly as possible.. but you refuse to see it.

How does this answer:

1, Why? God giving people a chance.. isn't wasting time.

2. It absolutely is a lie. No question about it.

3. God doesn't care you started. he cares how you finish.

4. This is probably the most rediculous argument I have ever heard. You should be getting stronger and more mature the longer you are saved. Not weaker. The longer I have been a Christian... the less prone I am to sin. The Bible says it is new Christians who are most at risk.

Deal with these accusations?

A non-OSAS belief implies:

1. God is dumb.

He cannot vet a persons heart. He can gift salvation to a Judas. Or dependant on timing (pre betrayal), He can graft someone like Judas into heaven.

2. Eternal security in heaven is a lie.

As God cannot properly vet a person, nobody is eternally secure.

3. God is unjust.

He can gift a thief next to Jesus who repents of his sin with eternal bliss. But yet, someone who does this and more, and falls into sin in their, let's say 50'th year of service, will receive eternal fire.

4. God is partial.

He gives some a short life with few opportunities to lose their salvation, whilst others He gives a long life, and hence many more opportunities and time to lose salvation. Some are called to witness to professional, respectful people in an office environment. Others, to prostitutes where the risk of them falling into sin is much higher.

Most times your responses are well thought out and good. But on this topic, in this thread and the OSAS one, you are dancing and avoiding dealing with the accusations of your belief.

 

[Bill]

Well... where else did your Christianity come from?

But it's a specious argument. Luther considered them to be church fathers, and their testimony of history and the testimony of what they believed is still valid, whether you are in doctrinal agreement or not.

Rhema

Exactly. Even the Protestant church is still used quite a bit of the old material from back during the first thousand years of the church. If you go to the seminaries are still using material from St Francis of Assisi and others that were back from the first Thousand Years.

And there are other things that are also followed, the tradition of the way the service is set up in the first place. The vestments that the minister wears, and some cases the choirs and other people involved with the service itself. All these things all stem back from those early days. The way the readings are done and the homily or the speech afterwards that's all still follows all that tradition.

And all those traditions stem from the Jewish synagogues. As Jesus said he didn't come to do away with the law but to fulfill it. It's the same thing with the church, or churches in this regard that they're not here to do away with the ways of the Lord from the old days but to fulfill them.
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Rhema, nice to see you again. It's been a long time. I've missed you

 

[Dave M]

So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!​

I ask does this title bearing the fruit of the spirit?

Galatians 5:22-23​

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

 

[KingJ]

So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!​

I ask does this title bearing the fruit of the spirit?

Galatians 5:22-23​

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Sure, of course. Knowing what and who you are as a Christian is an essential part of your armour.

 

[B-A-C]

It was one church for at least a thousand years,

We don't believe that either.. I'm sure the Orthodox wouldn't agree with that Statement.

 

[KingJ]

The problem isn't whether a belief incriminates God or not.. It's whether it's scriptural or not.
There are things the Bible absolutely says God does do and doesn't do... some people think these things are unjust, unfair, ungodly, etc...

But it doesn't matter what they think... if the Bible says that is what God does (or doesn't do).
If the Bible says it.. then your opinion of what is fair or just doesn't matter.

I cannot tell you how much I disagree with this!!!!

A Christian has one job and that is to properly represent God to the lost. Be a good ambassador 2 Cor 5:20.

2 Cor 5:20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

We can do this as He makes Himself known to us John 10:27-28. Leads us into all truth John 16:13. As He did to the prophets who defined Him as:

1. Good Psalm 136:1,
2. Just Job 34:12,
3. Righteous Psalm 145:17,
4. Light with no darkness 1 John 1:5,
5. Pure love 1 John 4:8,
6. Impartial Rom 2:11.

If we come along and say well, these 20 scriptures are in the bible and 'so what' if they represent God as unjust, partial and evil.....we cannot fail harder at our 'one' job.

It would make you no better than the devil in Matt 4:1-11. Please try understand that.

 

[Twistie]

A sign of a unhealthy
"Church "
is one that only collects people...Souls. ..

The job of the sheperd is to raise and build people up so they can go out n show others the way .

These days the temples that many call a church only collects souls they don't release them..

Ever noticed how angry a person will get if you dare speak against their temple or they pastor??
Them pastors got a strong curse on them..

Their followers feed them well .

The Truth is always hated

Then saith Yshua unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”

So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.


To many wanna be a leader and teacher.. they claim they believe just don't believe the Lord can teach His children.. think they got a spoon feed which makes people lazy in seeking the Lord Himself.. many wanna boast what they are like they had something to do with it instead of giving God the Glory.

Lord is about Family Who is my mother brother and sister those who do the will of my Father yet sadly people don't even know how to treat a stranger..

Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Tyrus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they delivered up the whole captivity to Edom, and remembered not the brotherly covenant:
(⁠⊃⁠ ⁠•⁠ ⁠ʖ̫⁠ ⁠•⁠ ⁠)⁠⊃

 

[B-A-C]

A Christian has one job and that is to properly represent God to the lost.

I agree with this in principle, but the biblical scripture of who God is absolutely MUST come before our opinion and feelings.

The problem with putting opinion and feelings before scripture is...

Well actually this happens frequently.... LGBT+ churches.... say a loving God, a good God, a just God woudn't reject anyone
because of who they love..... sounds good on the surface... but is totally unbiblical, unscriptural and doesn't accurately reflect
who God is, nor His character.

You named this thread..... "...tired of not knowing who a Christian is". But perhaps it should have been named "... not knowing who God is".

People all over the think they are representing what is good and fair... what they THINK God would do... they are sadly mistaken.
We can talk about God being good all day long, we can even agree that He is good. But that isn't the disagreement, the disagreement
is the character of what makes someone "good".

 

[th1bill]

Paoplle are sometimes concerned because I tell them I cannot be killed but it is true. I began my first leg of eternal life the day the Christ redeemed me, Good response Kingj.

 

[Bill]

Paoplle are sometimes concerned because I tell them I cannot be killed but it is true. I began my first leg of eternal life the day the Christ redeemed me, Good response Kingj.

I understand what you're saying, but you cannot be killed. Because you are a child of God so even though the body dies, the body which is the Temple of the Holy Spirit, that isn't you. Because your soul, which IS you, is eternal.

And this is the very same reason that I have been telling everyone here that it's okay for me to talk to my parents who have moved on because, guess what, they are with God. The body which is only the Temple of the Holy Spirit is not them. Or us for that matter. This body that I inhabit is not me, it's only the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The real you and the real me is on the inside the mind, the soul, and your spirit. Everything that makes us who we are.

The body in a sense is just like a hammer, the hammer does what the person who welds it instructs. If I want to put nails into the wood I swing my hammer and it puts the nails into the wood. If I want to smash something with the hammer I swing the hammer and it smashes something. The same thing is true with the Temple of the Holy Spirit, we use the arms and the legs to do what is necessary and it does it but it's not Who We Are

 

[KingJ]

I agree with this in principle, but the biblical scripture of who God is absolutely MUST come before our opinion and feelings.

''Biblical scripture of who God is'' has already been defined by prophets who knew God better than you or I.

What we need to do as ambassadors for Jesus is take all scripture that appears contentious and explain to the weak, young and lost how it is that God remains good Psalm 136:1, just Job 34:12. impartial Rom 2:11 and righteous Psalm 145:17, despite X and Y appearing as though it is not the case.

The problem with putting opinion and feelings before scripture is...

Where is there opinion? It is your false opinion that David, Paul and Job's character definitions of God should not be taken seriously.

Dictionary definitions of scriptural words like just, righteous, impartial, good and loving are not opinions or feelings. They are scriptural facts. Anyone dancing around them is a false teacher. Fact, not opinion.

Well actually this happens frequently.... LGBT+ churches.... say a loving God, a good God, a just God woudn't reject anyone
because of who they love..... sounds good on the surface... but is totally unbiblical, unscriptural and doesn't accurately reflect
who God is, nor His character.

Correct. I agree. But we as ambassadors of Jesus need to be able to explain this IE Why does a good, righteous, just, loving and impartial God ordain a graphic and violent death by stoning for homosexual activity among His people Lev 20:13?

Sexual sin between consenting adults is one of those sins that need to be explained. Most sin is easy to discern. Someone is clearly hurt. Nobody will say that punishing sinners for their sin is unrighteous. But in this case it certainly would appear unrighteous and unjust by God.

So, who is hurt? God is hurt. God is also a Being that can be hurt.

When we go against the natural purpose for which we were created, we become guilty of the following sin:

1. Rebellion to the purpose for which God made us.

He created us with purpose, precision and effort. Adam was made male and for a purpose. Eve was made female and for a purpose.

The wording in Rom 1:26 is important. It says 'they went against their God given nature'

2. Rebellion to His plan for procreation.

God instructed Adam and Eve to multiply. Children and family units are very important to Him.

I could list a number of more items, but the underlying point is simply that the LGBTQ community are pulling the middle finger to God. Hurting God. God does feel pain and can be 'hurt' according to scripture.

Thread 'God's Suffering'

Aug 12, 2025

Throughout Scripture, God is not emotionally distant. He feels deep grief, longing, and heartbreak when people leave Him. His love is not passive; it suffers when rejected. This emotional pain is most clearly revealed in the life of Jesus, who weeps, pleads, and ultimately dies to bring the lost back.

It is important for us to know that whilst God is not a man Num 23:19, He does experience suffering by His own choice Psalm 135:6. He wants to open Himself up to true love and the pain that comes with it.

God is terribly hurt when any leave Him. Many...

• KingJ
• Replies: 4
• Forum: Bible Study

 

[KingJ]

You named this thread..... "...tired of not knowing who a Christian is". But perhaps it should have been named "... not knowing who God is".

People all over the think they are representing what is good and fair... what they THINK God would do... they are sadly mistaken.
We can talk about God being good all day long, we can even agree that He is good. But that isn't the disagreement, the disagreement
is the character of what makes someone "good".

I don't agree. At all.

A. God is not a mix of good and evil.

1. Good = good. 2. Righteous = righteous. 3. Love = love. 4. Impartial = impartial. 5 Just = just.

Anyone should be able to name a contentious passage of scripture and a Christian should be able to explain how God remains all five of these terms.

God has not got a separate code of ethics. He can have, but according to scripture He operates on a human level in all His dealings with us. There is no punishment of sin for example that any of us will not grasp or agree with.

B. There is no such thing as a sinner not knowing they are sinning.

That many say that does not make it true. The only truth is that they can seer their conscience. Remove the guilty feeling.

All mankind has a conscience and a knowledge of good and evil. Exactly the same as God and the angels. Nobody will be judged on sin they could not grasp.

Gen 3:22 Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil.

C. All are given a working brain

Mankind is accountable for their sin because they have been blessed with high intelligence. We are creations just beneath the angels Heb 2:7. All are without excuse Rom 1:20.

We all have a working brain that can discern what is good and right.

Something controversial like the Sabbath for example. We can grasp the fact that God wants the Jews to honour it as it is the day He helped them out of slavery. Punishment for not respecting it should not come as a surprise to any Jew.

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The only exceptions are mentally handicapped and children. But they are an entirely separate discussion.