Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

[B-A-C]

Protestantism. What does this mean? I've seen websites that talk about evangelism, calvinism, arminianism,
the five sola's, dispensationalism, predestination, free-will, pentecostalism. Amazingly hardly any two of
the websites agree with each other. Protestant comes from the word "protest". Protestants are simply those
who protest against the teachings of the Roman Catholic church.

For whatever reason we have hundreds of Protestant denominations. The Roman Catholics find this amusing until you
point out how many denominations of Roman Catholicism there are. One of the primary things we "protest" is salvation
by works. This is one of the five sola's. (Sola Gratia) which means by grace alone, and through no work of our own
we are saved. Eph 2:8
Yet even Luther and the Bible both call faith itself a work. Jas 2:22-23; Gal 3:6
Then there is the once saved always saved debate vs some call fall away the faith. I hope not get into this here.
Let's concentrate on what it takes to become saved first, before we start worrying about losing it.
Also there is the predestination (non free-will) crowd. Rom 8:29-30; Eph 1:5

What it takes to be saved is also debated.
Is it merely believing in Jesus? John 3:16
It is believing in him and verbally confessing him? Rom 10:9;
Can this be a private confession, or does this have to be a public confession? Matt 10:33
Do we also have to be baptized in water? Mark 16:16
Do we have to "endure to the end"? Matt 10:22; Matt 24:13
If a single member of a household believes in Jesus, is his whole household automatically saved also? Acts 16:30-31
Do we also have the Holy Spirit to be saved? John 3:5
Is there are a difference between being "saved" and being "born again"? John 3:3
Is being saved, having eternal life, and going to heaven all the same thing, or three distinctly individual things?
Do we have to believe Jesus died and rose again? 1 Thes 4:14; Rom 10:9

If believing in Jesus is enough, then "what" exactly do we have to believe about him? That he existed? Satan and the demons believe he exists. Are they saved?

There are "major doctrines".
Jesus is God, Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus was sinless, Jesus died and rose again, The virgin birth, conceived by the Holy Spirit, Jesus rose again in the flesh, etc...

Then there are the "minor doctrines".
Baptists believe everyone "should" be baptized (Mark 16:16; ) but not all Baptists believe it's required for salvation.
Pentecostals believe everyone "should" use the Spiritual gifts ( 1 Cor 12:8-10; ) but most don't believe it's required for salvation.
Most mainstream evangelical churches preach we "should" obey the commandments, ( John 14:15; ) but it's not required for salvation.
I also hope to stay away from these debates for now also, especially if our salvation doesn't depend on them.

There is also the doctrine of sanctification. The two sides of this debate believe either you're already santified.
Heb 10:10; Heb 10:14
Or else sanctification is an on-going process. Rom 6:12-13; 1 Cor 9:27; 2 Cor 7:1; Rom 12:2; Tit 3:5; Rom 6:19; Php 3:12
But for this discussion, I consider sanctification separate from salvation.

What exactly is the "simplicity of devotion to Christ"? 2 Cor 11:3;

 

[james1523]

2 Cor 11:3.. the simplicity is single-mindedness towards Christ. Not being drawn astray in mind to other things. Corinth had problem with Judaizers, preaching other Jesus, spirit and gospel, bringing in Jewish practices into the church. But in our church today, perhaps it is prosperity gospel, perhaps it is universalism.. whatever is drawing us away from single-mindedness towards Christ. But now, you have Calvinists say that others preach 'other gospel', and Armenian may say the same about Calvinist. But these are not other gospels. Other gospel is anything that draws you away from Christ. Both agree Christ is only way to salvation. Other gospel is whatever is replacing Christ with something or someone else. Perhaps it is being concerned with entertaining crowds, whatever takes away from the simplicity toward Christ. Whatever takes away from your enjoyment and experience of Christ.

Kings and those in power politically seized on the opportunity Luther gave to break free from the Pope's power over their kingdoms. Many denomination are not existing for theological or doctrinal reasons, but for historical and political reasons. Denominations can agree on much more than we think. So in this modern age with much of the political-religious turmoil in Europe finished, we have to question why they are necessary. What is a church of England, doing in USA? what is a church of Germany (eg Lutheran), doing in Asia? Why they meet close by to each other and cannot meet together?

I think Christians should all agree on the nature of God (the Trinity) and belief in Jesus for salvation, and believe Jesus is the Son of God who came in the flesh. All other doctrine is really in the realm of 'non-essential doctrine', so we should be able to fellowship. If we cannot fellowship, then perhaps our heart is too narrow. If the Lord has received them, we cannot deny fellowship with them. Rom 14:1 says Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion. So when the Lord comes back, I believe He will say to all the denominations "you are all wrong, I prayed for you to be one in John 17:21, because I and the Father are One, yet you chose to divide yourselves". There is great significance that the Lord Jesus was born and lived outside of and apart from the religious institutions of his time.

 

[DHC]

Hello B-A-C.

Actually you have asked a very worthy question.

The answer is simple of course.

Romans 10:9 (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.

There is no other name given to mankind that enables salvation.

Paul only really preached the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It is the basic belief in Jesus Christ that is the prerequisite for salvation.

By definition, a Christian is a person that believes in Jesus Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

By definition, a Christian is a person that believes in Jesus Christ.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

It sounds like these people were doing things in the name of Jesus, so they must believe in him wouldn't you think?
Again I ask, is being a Christian just believing in Jesus, or is it following his teachings (as best we can) as well?

Mat 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Mat 19:17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Paul only really preached the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Really? Paul didn't teach any morality of rules at all?

Col 3:5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
Col 3:6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,
Col 3:7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
Col 3:12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
Col 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
Col 3:18 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.
Col 3:20 Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Col 3:21 Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
Col 3:22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Col 3:25 For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

That's just Colossians and Romans, I think if I tried, I could come up with several more verses. What do you think?

 

[papajim]

First you have to ask the question, what is it I am being saved from?

 

[Barny]

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Mat 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

And what is the will of the Father?
John 6:40
this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;

1Thess 4:3
this is the will of God, even your sanctification (believe in Jesus, Heb 10:10) , that ye should abstain from fornication (with Hagar/the law, Gal 4:24, 1Cor 5):

Mat 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Mat 19:17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Let's also consider Matt 19:20,21, for context.
The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what LACK I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be PERFECT, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

This is what the thief on the cross did. He followed Jesus.

Really? Paul didn't teach any morality of rules at all?

Col 3:5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
Col 3:6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,
Col 3:7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,
Col 3:12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
Col 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
Col 3:18 Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be embittered against them.
Col 3:20 Children, be obedient to your parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Col 3:21 Fathers, do not exasperate your children, so that they will not lose heart.
Col 3:22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
Col 3:25 For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
That's just Colossians and Romans, I think if I tried, I could come up with several more verses. What do you think?

Here you are quoting a lot of scriptures without spiritual understanding.
Remember God's word is spiritually discerned, 1cor 2:13-16

Why do you insist on adding works of law to grace? Your cannot mix these two, Rom 11:6.
God's example through that thief on the cross clearly shows that it's by grace alone.

 

[B-A-C]

Here you are quoting a lot of scriptures without spiritual understanding.
Remember God's word is spiritually discerned, 1cor 2:13-16

Why do you insist on adding works of law to grace? Your cannot mix these two, Rom 11:6.
God's example through that thief on the cross clearly shows that it's by grace alone.

If I obey the law 5 million times, and fail one time, will I get into heaven?
I need Jesus grace to get into heaven. I can't get there without him.
Failing one time isn't very realistic, I would say most of us fail thousands of times.
We can't be saved without the grace of Jesus. Without Jesus we can't get the heaven.
Without sin, we don't need grace. Therefore we wouldn't need Jesus.

What is grace? A license to sin? The ability to say we have no sin?
Or forgiveness when we do sin?

I won't get there by my works, none of us will. But our works are proof of our faith.
Our works demonstrate where our heart is. Our faith will be tested, when it is tested will it be tested by we say, or by what we do?
Romans 11:6 says if you depending on your works for salvation you're in trouble.
This isn't the end of thought Paul is presenting here. He goes on to say.

Rom 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Rom 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;
Rom 12:11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,
Rom 12:13 contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.
Rom 12:17 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Rom 12:19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
Rom 12:20 "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

He ends this discourse with this statement.
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

God expects us to do our part. We won't get there on our own, but we shouldn't sit back and expect him to do it all.

 

[DHC]

God expects us to do our part. We won't get there on our own, but we shouldn't sit back and expect him to do it all.

Hello B-A-C.

Do you notice the issue that this statement poses?

Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight
9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

No room in the above for our works at all B-A-C.

I would just be thankful above all for the reconciliation.

 

[B-A-C]

I would just be thankful above all for the reconciliation.

And I am. I am bowing out for now gentlemen. I wish you the best in your quest for truth. This is my last post in this thread.
May God bless you and reveal his will to you.

 

[Barny]

Without sin, we don't need grace.

True.
And that was a Christian's position before receiving Christ. We were sinners in need of God's grace.

But once we've been cleansed of sin by the blood of Christ, why continue to say we're dirty again with sin?
We should not call unclean what God has cleansed.
Christ's sacrifice was perfect. His sacrifice was not like those yearly sacrifices that could not take away sin, Heb 10:4.
With Christ's sacrifice we're totally "purged "of sin, Heb 10:2
We've "ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1
Our "past" sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25 and now there is no more subsequent sin, as we abide in Christ, righteous and justified in him.
By believing in Jesus we abide in him and therefore Satan the accuser cannot charge us with sin, Rom 8:33
If Satan can no longer accuse us of sin due to our life being hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3, then why would we then charge Christian's with sin?
If God sees Christ in us (and in him is no sin, 1John 3:5) then why would we not also see Christ in ourselves and other Christians?

But our works are proof of our faith.
Our works demonstrate where our heart is. Our faith will be tested, when it is tested will it be tested by we say, or by what we do?
Romans 11:6 says if you depending on your works for salvation you're in trouble.
This isn't the end of thought Paul is presenting here. He goes on to say.

Rom 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Rom 12:9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good.
Rom 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor;
Rom 12:11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
Rom 12:12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer,
Rom 12:13 contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.
Rom 12:17 Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Rom 12:19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.
Rom 12:20 "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

He ends this discourse with this statement.
Rom 13:10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

God expects us to do our part. We won't get there on our own, but we shouldn't sit back and expect him to do it all.

Our works that shows our faith is to believe in Jesus, John 6:29.
And this is what Rom 12 is referring to. Believing in Jesus.
Rom 12:1 "present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice" is what we did when we believed in Jesus and our old man was crucified with him, Rom 6:6
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world (rebellion against God in refusing to submit to His righteousness and instead seeking to establish our own righteousness, which is unbelief), but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, (being transformed is believing in Jesus thus our old man is crucified with Christ and we're now transformed/a new creation) being so that you may prove what the will of God is, (God's will being to believe in Jesus, John 6:40)

Much of the rest of Rom 12 speaking of love is referring to showing our faith by believing in Jesus/gospel of grace. We were saved by grace. We should likewise show this same grace/love to one another. Hence we do not judge/condemn one another, saying that if your behavior is not good enough then your lost. Instead we love, forgiving 7x70 just as God forgave us.

Rom 12:20 "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK;

This verse in Rom was also spoken about in Matt 25:36-38
I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You ?

Again this speaks of believing in Jesus. It's speaks of preaching the gospel of grace to the lost.
The lost are:
"naked", without God's covering

"sick", spiritually sick. Isa 53:5 "by His stripes we are healed."

"in prison", to the flesh. 1Pet 3:19 "he went and preached unto the spirits in prison".
Isa 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

"a stranger" from God/not in communion with Him. Eph 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

"hungry", without Christ, the spiritual food. 1Cor 10:4
"thirsty" without Christ, the spiritual drink. 1Cor 10:4
1Cor 10:3,4
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.