Sin of Adam not unto Death Theory

[Ivar]

Adam was unrighteous; However not tempted, neither did he lust which bringeth forth idolatry and sin unto death.
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1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
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Ending with:

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

 

[Ivar]

However Adam did eat of the The fruit and eventually die.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
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Maybe I'm looking too deep into it. Even though Adam is not counted with the transgression he still sinned and was still punished and eventually died along with Eve. Maybe Paul phrased it like that in 1 Timothy 2:14 because the women in that current church or area were not in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety, and were gossiping and upsurping authority of the Men based on these scriptures.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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[Ivar]

Saved thru Child bearing and eventual birth of Passover Lamb.

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
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So Adam and Eve died however it does not seem to be a sin under death since since she is mentioned as being save thru child bearing and certain requirements.
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Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
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[regibassman57]

@Ivar,
I like what you said about temptation:

“Adam was unrighteous; However not tempted, neither did he lust which brings forth idolatry and sin unto death.”

I don’t believe that Adam died. I believe that God shed blood on their behalf and made intercession for them at the time He clothed them (Gen. 3:21).

Here some information I think about concerning “temptation” and Adam.

Jesus could be tempted (emotionally), but He could not be deceived (Mat. 4:1; Luk. 4:2, 13). Adam and Eve could not be tempted, but they could be deceived; Eve (1Ti 2:14). Nowhere in scripture have I read it saying that Adam and Eve were tempted.

The reason Adam and Eve could not be tempted is because they were holy vessels. Temptation is an emotional trial and whose god is an emotional being. Adam and Eve were not initially emotional beings; they were intellectual beings created in the image and likeness of the Word of God (Gen. 1:26, 27; Joh. 1:-3; Col.1:16, 17).

Jesus on the other hand came in the likeness of fallen man; whose body was emotionally capable of being tempted to the point that He was in agony; and was as if He was sweating blood (Luk. 22:44).

Before Eve was deceived and Adam sinned, God resided in them; this is what made them holy vessels. Satan could not enter a holy vessel for fear of God (Jam. 2:19). Similar to priests who were warned not to enter into the Holy Temple defiled; or they could die. Those that didn’t heed would died, because they were unclean or they didn’t carry out a ritual as commanded. After Adam sinned, God departed from man and Satan entered; occupying their vessel 2Cor. 4:4).

 

[Sue D.]

On what grounds were Adam and Eve holy vessels.

God created Adam first and then Eve -- they had children together -- lots of them. They were people just like we are. They had emotions and intellect just as we do today.

God created them but did not reside in them.

Unless you are referring to when a person accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior, the Holy Spirit immediately comes and indwells them. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity.

 

[Ivar]

@Ivar,
I like what you said about temptation:

“Adam was unrighteous; However not tempted, neither did he lust which brings forth idolatry and sin unto death.”

I don’t believe that Adam died. I believe that God shed blood on their behalf and made intercession for them at the time He clothed them (Gen. 3:21).

Here some information I think about concerning “temptation” and Adam.

Jesus could be tempted (emotionally), but He could not be deceived (Mat. 4:1; Luk. 4:2, 13). Adam and Eve could not be tempted, but they could be deceived; Eve (1Ti 2:14). Nowhere in scripture have I read it saying that Adam and Eve were tempted.

The reason Adam and Eve could not be tempted is because they were holy vessels. Temptation is an emotional trial and whose god is an emotional being. Adam and Eve were not initially emotional beings; they were intellectual beings created in the image and likeness of the Word of God (Gen. 1:26, 27; Joh. 1:-3; Col.1:16, 17).

Jesus on the other hand came in the likeness of fallen man; whose body was emotionally capable of being tempted to the point that He was in agony; and was as if He was sweating blood (Luk. 22:44).

Before Eve was deceived and Adam sinned, God resided in them; this is what made them holy vessels. Satan could not enter a holy vessel for fear of God (Jam. 2:19). Similar to priests who were warned not to enter into the Holy Temple defiled; or they could die. Those that didn’t heed would died, because they were unclean or they didn’t carry out a ritual as commanded. After Adam sinned, God departed from man and Satan entered; occupying their vessel 2Cor. 4:4).

@regibassman57
1. As of right now; the only men to my knowledge who have not been recorded to taste death is Enoch and Elijah.
2. Adam became unrighteous because of disobedience but to my knowledge repented and is in Abraham's Bosom
3. Eve thru deception was tempted and that temptation begat lust which conceived sin.
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On what grounds were Adam and Eve holy vessels.

God created Adam first and then Eve -- they had children together -- lots of them. They were people just like we are. They had emotions and intellect just as we do today.

God created them but did not reside in them.

Unless you are referring to when a person accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior, the Holy Spirit immediately comes and indwells them. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity.

@Sue D.
1. On the grounds that Adam was originally incorruptible and on the grounds that the one who formed them was Holy.
2. The Holy Spirit is of the three that bears witness in heaven however only The Father is the Only True God
3. Abraham served one God. The Levitical Priesthood was set up to serve one God, The Order of Melchelzidek serves one God, and The Son serves one God; not one God in three persons.

 

[regibassman57]

@Ivar,
Enoch and Elijah are the only ones that I know of also.

A man either has the spirit of Jehovah God residing in them (Life) or the spirit of Satan (Death). No man can be without a spirit. A man serves either Jehovah God or Satan (Mat. 6:24). There are only two spiritual gods in this world according to scripture that has resided in man. This is how we know that either God was in Adam from the beginning or the devil. We know when Adam sinned, Satan entered Adam. This is when Satan became the god of this world in man (2Cor. 4:3, 4; Eph. 2:2).

I believe Adam repented. Scripture does not say that Eve was tempted, but it says she was deceived (1Ti. 2:14). Nowhere in scripture does it say that Eve was tempted. A person can only be tempted by the father of lust living inside of them (Joh. 8:44) or having rights to tempt the flesh as in the mentality of man (2Cor. 10:4, 5). This is how Jesus was tempted (Mat. 4:3).

 

[Ivar]

@Ivar,
Enoch and Elijah are the only ones that I know of also.

A man either has the spirit of Jehovah God residing in them (Life) or the spirit of Satan (Death). No man can be without a spirit. A man serves either Jehovah God or Satan (Mat. 6:24). There are only two spiritual gods in this world according to scripture that has resided in man. This is how we know that either God was in Adam from the beginning or the devil. We know when Adam sinned, Satan entered Adam. This is when Satan became the god of this world in man (2Cor. 4:3, 4; Eph. 2:2).

I believe Adam repented. Scripture does not say that Eve was tempted, but it says she was deceived (1Ti. 2:14). Nowhere in scripture does it say that Eve was tempted. A person can only be tempted by the father of lust living inside of them (Joh. 8:44) or having rights to tempt the flesh as in the mentality of man (2Cor. 10:4, 5). This is how Jesus was tempted (Mat. 4:3).

@regibassman57
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[regibassman57]

@Ivar,
Here we are dealing with two different natures. Either the father of lust is in you, or the Father of life. After Adam sinned is when James 1:14, 15 happens. Before Adam sinned lust was not inside of Adam. Lust can only be where the father of the nature of lust is.

The tree was pleasant unto Eve as the tree was pleasant unto God (Gen. 2:9). Eve intellectually desired a tree to make her wise because she was deceived. Satan told her she would be as gods "knowin" something. This is where she became decived. Her desire was not emotional but an intellectual. Eve was not capable of lust before sin.

Meditate on the two natures of this world and you will understand what they are capable of. Satan's nature is not able to do certain things.

Did Jesus lust?
Was Jesus tempted?

 

[regibassman57]

@Ivar,
Good and Evil is a nature. Satan is the god of the fallen nature of good and evil. Remember, at this time the devil had already fallen from Heaven. Satan understood the nature of good and evil because he had knowledge of it. That is why he said to Eve, eat of the tree, you'll be as gods knowing good and evil, Satan knew good and evil.

Satan is the author of confusion. Why do you think he's confused? Because he did not created himself to know good and evil. Satan is in limbo without balance existing in a nature he did not create nor understands. When man experience confusion, they are experimcing Satan's character, not God's. Angel do God's works or bidding of either good in blessings or evil in destroying in times of judgment. That is a good study.

 

[Sue D.]

Adam and Eve -- upon eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil -- had their eyes opened -- they lost their innocence -- received a propensity For evil. Before eating the fruit, they Would have lived forever in their state of innocence -- they would have continued to have children and everyone would have lived in state of innocence and continued to live forever. But -- Because Of eating of that fruit -- they Would eventually die - at some point in the future. Back Then -- life spans were hundreds of years. since the flood -- life spans have dropped substantially.

I'd have to disagree that satan is confused. He knows exactly what his future will be. He's out to get as much company as possible in his future hell. He wants to confuse everyone into thinking that without God around to 'spoil all their fun' that hell will be Fun. But God's Word tells us Much differently. Hell is one place that No one will ever want to be in or stay in. And satan won't be in charge of hell -- it's God's punishment -- satan will be Suffering as will the beast and the false prophet.

 

[Ivar]

@regibassman57
I suspect evil is an awareness to do things contrary to good. Which is why I suspect their is no forgiveness for fallen Angels because they have the knowledge of good and evil giving them the capacity to deliberately and knowingly do things contrary to good.

I suspect Satan told Eve a half truth because by eating the fruit they became self aware of evil and consequently knew they were naked because the glory or light from God was removed from them.
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@Sue D.
It seems that he is saying that Satan causes confusion and based off your further elaboration it seems you both are on the same page.

 

[regibassman57]

@Sue,
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

If God is not the author of confusion, who is? Man does not struggle with himself, but he struggles casting down imagination and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God (Eph. 6:12, 2Co. 10:5). Anything oppose to God's knowledge is confusion and it can only come from Satan. The natural man cannot understand God's knowledge because he lives as the devil's slave; therefore, he has the devil's information. There are only two forms of spiritual knowledge in this world, and that is God's knowledge through Jesus Christ and the devils. The devil presents worldly natural, carnal knowledge oppose to God.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If a man's mind is blinded from God, he doesn't have the truth and he lives his life in the knowledge of the devil.

 

[Sue D.]

What I was Trying to say is that satan isn't confused at all -- he knows exactly what he's doing -- he's Trying to confuse Us. He's the Great Deceiver / Liar. He knows each person's weakness and capitalizes on them. He makes Evil seem pretty good.

 

[regibassman57]

@Sue,
Satan abides in darkness in his mind; his mind cannot understand light fully in truth. Satan is deceived in and of himself. The reason a man becomes confused is because they walk in darkness without God or Satan confuses them. Any man without God is in the state of confusion because they do not know God. Satan is wise and knows how to deceive people, but if God's truth (word) is in a person, Satan cannot confuse them. If your mind is not in light, then it is in darkness; which is confusion. Because you do not have the truth. Anything less than the truth of God is confusion.

 

[Sue D.]

There's a continue 'fight' going on in the spirit realm. Take a look at Ephesians 6: 12 - following verses. "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." and then talks about putting on the armor of God.

There's a small, paper-back book I've had for quite some time -- "Satan is alive and well on planet earth".

And, yes, we Can have victory, but satan Is very capable of side-tracking us -- he's after believers especially -- to discredit our testimony as much as possible. We were talking about that in Sunday School yesterday. People are looking at the lives of Christians -- our lives Should show a difference. Such as love, joy, peace, long-suffering, etc. part of the fruits of the Spirit. If a person calls themselves a 'Christian' but their lives do Not exhibit those characteristics -- people have a reason to question us. And 'we' should be questioning us -- do "I" simply have a head-knowledge of Scripture and simply know About salvation? Or have we actually made a Heart decision to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

God's Word IS the truth and Context is extremely important. And it's very easy to take verses -- on their own-- out of their intended context -- and have Scripture 'say' most anything we want it to.

 

[regibassman57]

@Sue,
As soon as a person comes to Jesus from the darkness into the light, their knowledge is still in darkness because they have no knowledge and understanding of Christ. As they continue in the light of Christ and learn, they will be in the light of knowledge. The more knowledge and understanding they have, the more freedom in righteousness they have. The Devil comes to steal our knowledge; this is why we must protect it. If we do not have Christ's knowledge we walk in darkness in our minds; though we are still in the light of Christ. The only way we can walk in love and the complete fruit of the Spirit is if we have knowledge of love. This is how we love God and our neighbor.