Sin is tied to free will

[KingJ]

Greetings KingJ,

I am convinced that you desire to serve and love the Lord with all you have and I appreciate your posts even though i do not always fancy all the ingredients upon the plate. You always put a lot of effort into attempting to share what you do. I don't do that very often as i tend to ramble on a bit and it is quite possible that i lose people along the way. I have been known to send folks to sleep while talking about Biblical/Scriptural things!

Please understand i am not having a go at you personally; not your heart, nor faith, with the following.

You wrote:



Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it; Ephesians 5:25 KJV

Most husbands don't have a problem with this, in theory at least. Most wives would definitely agree with it.

But what does the verse(s) before tell us?

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Ephesians 5:22-24 KJV

Now, most husbands would definitely agree and most wives would, in theory at least.

But do we read on? And this is the 'crunch line' to what i am writing to you....

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:32 KJV

So, in your presented argument (argument is OK, as is criticism; it is how they are used and presented), let us turn it around a little. Any 'true' Christian knows that if the Lord says, "Jump", we are to jump. In fact we all know that those who love Him obey Him and that obedience, rather than rebellion against, is vital in believing and living the Life He died for, for us, and has given us to live. So, if a husband such as He, who is willing to be as Christ towards his wife, says

then the wife need not get flustered and she can and should obey, especially if she sincerely desires to please the Lord. The same with the other examples you presented.
We don't hesitate to be obliging in obedience (in theory at least) to the Lord and we are repentantly sorry if we do resist and hear His gentle chiding and correction, if our Lord AND King gives an order to us, which He has as seen in the Bible. In fact, one big problem is that we can so easily forget that as the King, we must obey. Jesus is Lord and King, not Lord only. (and much, much more, for example, He is the Lover of our souls and the Good Shepherd of our souls and the Captain of our Salvation)

No, God is NOT a tyrant. That is the sort of thing man might attain to if left unchecked but God is NOT a tyrant... BUT, it is His way or the highway, so to speak and rightly so. How can I say that? you may ask. it is because He is Holy. Therefore, His way, and we well know, is the only way, and we know also that His Way is in and through His Son, alone. And I am So glad that this is true. I know exactly where i stand and which way to go and it is not left up to me to exercise my feeble, shortsighted and carnal 'free will' to attempt to get it right. I am also glad because it puts us all in the same boat with the same set of rules and the same destination, planned and set out for us, complete with a precious Comforter to help us and teach us along the Way.
People do need to hear that it is God's 'way or the highway' ... before it is too late.
Noah was told to do something quite odd. Build an ark. From what i understand Noah told people of God's way and they all have plenty of opportunity to both hear of it and to listen (which is sort of what obey means) and most assuredly, those who did not want it His 'way or the highway' perished. We know our Holy God is NOT willing that any should perish.

Let me know if this does or does not make sense and if you have any differing thoughts on what i have written, KingJ.

You have been engaging with your fellow Member Quantrill @Quantrill for some time on this thread and I want you to feel more at peace and assured that he means no harm to you nor is after a battle of words and like you, seeks the truth and that truth is Gods Way. (correct me if i am wrong @Quantrill . )
None of us want to be told....the highway with you!


Bless you ....><>

My OP started off with a proposal. I have not got a belief in stone on this. I just know that when people make statements about God ruling with a rod of iron like a tyrant that they out of line and miss-representing God.

If there is no sin in heaven. Then it can only be so if God is not 'over-bearing'.

As you quoted wives must submit to their husbands. Husbands must also love their wives. Part of love is not being over bearing. Pedantic. Tyrannical.

I feel that is the truth to this discussion. As you said in an earlier post the discussion of ''sin'' in God's presence makes you feel uneasy. There is truth to that as sin always results in someone being hurt. God does not want that in heaven. It is the opposite of love and laying your life down for others.

So, there is no sin in heaven and God is a good God who is not over-bearing. Final answer :grin:

 

[Quantrill]

Sin had it's origin in Heaven. satan wanted his will. Thus Heaven at this time has been stained with the presence of sin also, as the world has. That satan has access to Heaven still is seen in (Job 1:6) and (2:1). And where he goes, his opposing will goes with him...sin. This is why God must create a new Heaven and new Earth. (Rev. 21:1) So, one day, there will be no sin in Heaven or the Earth. At present the war is playing out.

The ruling of God with a rod of iron pertains to the Son ruling over the nations during the millennial period. (Ps. 2:8-9) And during that time, Christ shall give His saints the authority to rule with a rod of iron over the nations also. (Rev. 2:26-27)

Once sin has been purged from Heaven and Earth, there will always be only one will in place, which is the will of God. Our wills will be aligned with God's will, or be submissive to God's will. Because God is good, that is good. As I have said, it is difficult to comprehend at this time due to our present state and in this present world.

Quantrill