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these days i would have say that a degree is a disqualification, most definitely yes. there are way to many false teaching coming out of seminary schools these days.
Seminary where is the Bible?
these days i would have say that a degree is a disqualification, most definitely yes. there are way to many false teaching coming out of seminary schools these days.
Member
why dont you show an answer to the op. where is it a rule that you have to have a degree in order to preach the word of god or minister. is there biblical proof of it? no therefore anyone that teaches that you have to have a degree in order to minister is the same as a pharisee or saducee. how about just trying to stick to the point of the op. where is it a rule you cant show it because it is not there. or show me where going to a seminary school means that you are saved?? you can defend what ever you want to and i am not going to cry to chad about your silly little insults. but if you cant find biblical proof to shut down the op leave it alone. you are trying to prove you are right about what? you are not even writing about anything of the op.
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I cannot convince someone who blindly discriminates. A degree is not needed, I have never said that; but a degree is not an impediment to fulfilling God's will either.
You find yourself not only at odds with scripture on this:
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
but also once again resorting to blanket accusations on multitudes of people without any more evidence than your prejudice.
Member
i was not saying anything like that in the op. you took it off course and now you say what with that scripture that once again has nothing to do with the op or the subject at hand anywhere in this thread. look i admit that i love a good argument, but this isnt even a good argument, now you are claiming that seminary is a gift. though it is not written as a gift anywhere in scripture. look all i am asking and have been from the beginning of this thread is where is it a law written in the word of god that you have to. now we agree that it is not therefor anyone that teaches it as such is a liar and not speaking the truth. once again i think that we need to discuss what is taught in seminary schools.
Member
Dude, you are completely confused. You state that going to seminary disqualifies one from ministering- I give you a scripture that says the gifts and callings God gives are without repentance, and now you are trying to twist that to say I implied "seminary if a gift". There is no end to both this confusion and bigotry.
I hate to admit it, but I give up on trying to shine the light on this blind, ignorant spirit of hatred and prejudice- perhaps it is best if I just let God deal with your heart.
Have an awesome life brother.
Member
are you sure it is a spirit of those things? let us take a real look at some teaching that are coming out of some of the seminary schools today.
prosperity gospel
name it claim it gospel
once saved always saved gospel
business of church
the list goes on. it is not a hatred or bigotry. it is let us keep people safe from the false gospels that are being preached. that is why i disqualify. i can listen to a pastor for 5 to 10 minutes and know they are preaching a seminary sermon not being moved by the holy spirit at all. seminary just seems to be like psychology, just fool of lies and ways to justify falseness. i will agree to disagree with you on this.
Member
ushalk: Hey, again: I have been to seminary and have a M. Div, and a MARS degree's. I have taken classes at four different seminaries, so I can tell you that in all the classes I took NOT ONCE were prosperity teaching's taught, or anything even remotely close to mane it and claim it taught. As for once saved always, YES ! That is Baptist doctrine. I knon that for whatever you say against OSAS I can give you even more to give the reason OSAS is Biblical. Let's not get into that as it too ia a horse that was beaten so bal the poor horse, only the tail was left. Several times Jesus taught that we are to be very responsible for our finances, and that would include the CHURCH. Good that those who are responsible for paying the bill's be solid and respectable. I don't think anyone wants a thief involved with anything to do with money unless he comes to church in handcuffs.
Why are you so down on higher education for people in ministry? Would you want a doctor wo had not gome to medical school? What about a pastor that had no social graces, wore clothes that had not been washed in 2 weeks? Don't you think that a pastor should have some idea as to what the Bible anguages are about, and can at least find out with Biblical tools how to understand words. A person in ministry needs some skills that just reading the Bible does not equip him or her to do.
When I take my vehicle to the shop I expect that those who work on my vehicle to know what they are doing, and surely just as important as knowledge, they have the tools to do the work. Just a screwdriver, hammer, and a pipe wrench will never do quality work. Does anything I say sound reasonable ? Blessings
farout
Member
The Roman Catholic-style system is one learned man preaching from the front and the congregation listening in silence.
It has been like this since the early centuries of the Roman Empire and it did not change with Luther or Calvin or others, except in the brethren and similar styled churches.
The problem with this system is that the "one to many" relationship means the "one" has to be very sound and correct in order to benefit the many.
Far too often people come from bible colleges or seminaries and preach head knowledge without the power of the Spirit.
I know of atheists and agnostics with theological degrees who have already met the main requirement for leading a church in some denominations.
They are preaching the Bible in letters without the Spirit and so spiritual growth in the hearers is stunted.
A degree or qualification is fine but should not be the requirement to be a leader in a church.
If a person has a degree or qualification it should not result in them teaching mere head knowledge from what they learned in bible school.
Far too often the denominational seminaries mold a person into the theology that this denomination wishes to promote and further.
In Bible times the apostles appointed elders, leaders in the church who were the most mature in Christ. Some of these leaders were only saved 1-3 years, but they were the most mature ones in Christ compared to their peers.
In churches today are young believers in Lord teaching head knowledge to more mature elders in the congregation, and they lead the church because they have the right bible degree or personality to do so. But if the apostle Paul were here, he would appoint the mature elders in the congregation to lead, not the ones with bible degrees.
It has been like this since the early centuries of the Roman Empire and it did not change with Luther or Calvin or others, except in the brethren and similar styled churches.
The problem with this system is that the "one to many" relationship means the "one" has to be very sound and correct in order to benefit the many.
Far too often people come from bible colleges or seminaries and preach head knowledge without the power of the Spirit.
I know of atheists and agnostics with theological degrees who have already met the main requirement for leading a church in some denominations.
They are preaching the Bible in letters without the Spirit and so spiritual growth in the hearers is stunted.
A degree or qualification is fine but should not be the requirement to be a leader in a church.
If a person has a degree or qualification it should not result in them teaching mere head knowledge from what they learned in bible school.
Far too often the denominational seminaries mold a person into the theology that this denomination wishes to promote and further.
In Bible times the apostles appointed elders, leaders in the church who were the most mature in Christ. Some of these leaders were only saved 1-3 years, but they were the most mature ones in Christ compared to their peers.
In churches today are young believers in Lord teaching head knowledge to more mature elders in the congregation, and they lead the church because they have the right bible degree or personality to do so. But if the apostle Paul were here, he would appoint the mature elders in the congregation to lead, not the ones with bible degrees.
Member
So TRUE.
A seminary degree does not imply understanding of scriptures.
Note what Paul found after he was converted.
Gal 2:6
But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.
Likewise seminaries might seem to have something to offer, but you'll find in the end they will add nothing to you or possibly even lead you astray.
It's the Spirit within us that gives us understanding.
1John 2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Loyal
Who is it that is to keep people safe? You or me? Is God helpless? Is His plan flawed? If a person loves the Truth, he will not be led into delusion. Without the love of Truth, God Himself will send them a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie. Isn't that what the scripture says? (Perhaps, we also should try to keep people off the Internet because it is certainly full of filth, but here we are on the Talk Jesus forum.)
You speak of being moved by the Holy Spirit and that is a good thing. So then allow the Holy Spirit in people to sift through the good and evil in the world. You cannot stop people from quenching the Holy Spirit by telling them to avoid seminaries. The quenching, if it exists, is in their hearts rather than the schools. As for people without the Holy Spirit, shouldn't you help them with that before worrying about seminaries?
Your purpose, I am certain, is a good one, but don't sell God short. Do you remember when Philip was caught up by the Holy Spirit to help the eunuch (Acts 8:26-39)? The man was hungry and thirsty for the things of God:
Even so the Ethiopian eunuch was filled. God's plan always works for those who walk in His Way... or who are really seeking His Way..
Member
The Lord called me ,the Holy Spirit fills me ,man give me License as to recognize the things of God in me ..the first two are what makes me good if anything does and the third I can do with out but need to appease the denominations ..it really doesn't matter what's in my wallet .lol ,If I took pride in my title other than saying I'm a saved man I miss the point ,I can't be in bondage to denomination and be a love salve giving all to my master and Lord at the same time ....! Rev
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I agree with this. Mr. Dwight L. Moody, anyone?
Just like any higher learning institution, a seminary can only evaluate minds through the measures established by man.
The cannot evaluate someone's heart, only God can.
Although I have no doubt that men and women who love God work and teach at most seminaries, it is their relationship with God that makes them effective and useful to the work of the Kingdom of God, not their education.
Member
How many of you who think seminary is not a good thing, ahs even taken a college course ? I don't mean this withany hard feelings, but how can you who have never been to semonary state what a seminary teaches, or what holds a denomination has on a person in seminary ? How can anyone make a statement about what a seminary teaches ?
I have never, not once said people who have gone to seminary are smarter, more spiritual, or are closer to the Lord. If anyone believes the Lord has called them into ministry that's awesome ! If someone has been involved in church and knows Scripture and wants to preach, by all means do t. If the call is from the Lord hhe expects you to move on it ! The missions where homeless people areare always looking for someone to preach. Go to the nursing home they are always loking for someone to preach and spend one on one with those in those places. Go to meal's on wheel's need hel, and you can witness to those people too. Ask your pastor how you can begin to see if God really has called you.
I can state I have done all of the above, and driven hours to get to where a dozen and a half perope were there to hear a preacher. Unless a person is willing to respond at as many places that need ministry than perhas God is calling to someother ministry besides preaching.
Seminary is NOT for everyone ! But for those who feel directed by the Lord to go to seminary, then follow what the Lord is directing you to do. Please don't think anyone who has been to seminary wants to be mighty or has super wisdom about the Bible. Seminary is very hard work, and to expend themselves to be better in ministry. I hope this gives better understanding.
farout
I have never, not once said people who have gone to seminary are smarter, more spiritual, or are closer to the Lord. If anyone believes the Lord has called them into ministry that's awesome ! If someone has been involved in church and knows Scripture and wants to preach, by all means do t. If the call is from the Lord hhe expects you to move on it ! The missions where homeless people areare always looking for someone to preach. Go to the nursing home they are always loking for someone to preach and spend one on one with those in those places. Go to meal's on wheel's need hel, and you can witness to those people too. Ask your pastor how you can begin to see if God really has called you.
I can state I have done all of the above, and driven hours to get to where a dozen and a half perope were there to hear a preacher. Unless a person is willing to respond at as many places that need ministry than perhas God is calling to someother ministry besides preaching.
Seminary is NOT for everyone ! But for those who feel directed by the Lord to go to seminary, then follow what the Lord is directing you to do. Please don't think anyone who has been to seminary wants to be mighty or has super wisdom about the Bible. Seminary is very hard work, and to expend themselves to be better in ministry. I hope this gives better understanding.
farout
Member
that is very true. there is not salvation in having a degree or even knowing the history of the bible or any knowledge of it period. if you are not allowing the scriptures to speak boldly to yoiu you are still without true understanding of what they are saying anyways.
Member
you make a strong point in ones that are directed by the lord to go to seminary. if someone is in fact directed by the lord to do so then they need to do as the lord would have them do. however to set it as a rule that you have to or you can not minister is what is false and that is the point of the op.
Member
excellent way of putting that brother/ you are right. i just do not allow myself to appease anyone in such fashions.
Member
we have a responsability to those that we are entrusted with or minister to.
Member
I do not think that seminaries are bad at all.
In fact I am considering to take some classes in the local seminary just to help me understand Greek better.
As a tool to sharpen and focus your ministry, it's of immense usefulness.
I merely pointed out that seminaries are human institutions, therefore one cannot rely on these to attain Spiritual maturity.
Member
this is an excellent point will. i realize you were writing those to farout. but i like to point out great points made on all of these threads. thank you for sharing.