Searching for God

[spirit1st]

I believe it spirit where God picks .

GOD looked into our hearts and see if we desire love and truth .

Act_28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them

Rom_10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Mat_15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat_15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

That why our beginning in the LORD and ending is spiritual .

 

[will]

We make the mistake to think that after giving a command, God wants us to carry it out in our own strength in whatever way possible. This is not true. They were moving in step with the Spirit who told them to go to this place or that place one by one. Sometimes the Spirit forbade them to go to certain places.

And moving in step with the Holy Spirit means one thing: To Grow.
In all of these discussions, the concept of growth is missing.
I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp.

A Christian is either a baby or growing, or mature:
- Baby Christians are the ones who look like the world, acts like the world, and talk like the world.
- Growing Christians started to trust God, little by little, consuming the Scriptures with the right attitude, submitting and listening to the Holy Spirit.
- Mature Christians already know what assurance they have in Christ. They don't worry about losing salvation anymore, they are busy making disciples, just as they are Commissioned to do.

These concepts are in the Scriptures, again and again.

All this predestination, always saved, searching for God, who start it first, etc. arguments are like rabbit holes setup by the enemy to occupy the minds of well-meaning christians. Away from what they ought to be concerned about. Spiritual growth.

Stop it. Don't argue these anymore.

Embrace the fact that we as a Christian are given God's own Holy Spirit.
For what purpose?
To give us the channel to use God's power to overcome the world.
Why do we have to use God's power and not our own?
To magnify and glorify God. That, is why we were created for.
Not for pontificating always saved, who's going to heaven and who's not.
If God wants a tabloid, He would have created one.

We, who chose to recognize (our choice) our desperation, our severe need of a savior (God's grace), is predestined to be an 'icon' of His Son, Lord Jesus Christ.
This is to be our sole preoccupation from our receiving salvation, to our end of time here on earth.
We are given one and one Commission only: to make disciples and spread the Gospel.
To do that, we have to grow Spiritually first, so back to that concept of growth.

I'm sorry for this rapid-fire writing. But seriously, we need to stop this badgering each other.
Don't pick this post apart, and question it sentence-by-sentence.
Read it wholly, think about it.
If you don't agree, that's alright, if you agree, Praise The Lord. :shade:

 

[spirit1st]

You know once. I was laying in bed and I awoke and I wondered why I awoke? It was so peaceful , not a noise of any kind. And then the Holy Ghost came upon me. It was the rivers of living water. Going though me like in a circle, though my belly.
Then after a few minutes i felt satan had entered the room and The Holy GHOST started leaving me. I said ,LORD make him go. He said I cannot. I said But LORD You created all things . He said I cannot. You must do it. I said LORD I am but a small man and cannot . He said You Must. I was so full of fear . I yelled get out in the name of JESUS CHRIST. he left right away. But i kept saying it as the Holy Ghost came upon me again. Then I laid back down . It felt so wonderful. I looked over at my wife and wanted HER to feel what i was feeling. So I touched Her and The Holy Ghost left me. He would not enter HER body. She was not Born -Again.

God expects us to take power over the demons and sickness and the works HE called us to do. But of course He always ready to help us or teach us or reveal whatever we need to know?

 

[Sargento]

James... if u intent to something but CAN'T and end up doing the oposite what freedom is that?

Youre free to do what you don't want to do?

Your choice does not obey your will.... is that what you calk freedom....

James, you're going to have define "freedom" to me then.... because for your argument to make sense "freedom" has to loose its meaning.... in that case freedom means "out of your reach" or "free from you" since it doesn't obey your will.

'Cause your saying that your choice is free, but at the same time u tell me that u have no will over it... how does it go then?... who wills your choice? ...or is it random on its own free even from yourself?

 

[Sargento]

Hi Will...

The maturaty of a Christian is measured by its knowing of GOD and not his actions.

Yes... we must spread the gospel, but for it to happen all heresys or dissimulation that look like the gospel must be exposed so that the gospel shine and differs.

That's what Paul did everytime he entered a new town.... and that's our fight.

Who loves the truth cannot allow the lie disguised as truth.

And our growth is shown by our capability of distinguish true from lie, good from evil, spirit from flesh and God from the Devil.... the natural man can make all sort of good actions, but none of the mencioned above.

Sorry for my english... i'm on the phone.

 

[B-A-C]

The maturaty of a Christian is measured by its knowing of GOD and not his actions.

Well we seem to be talking about two different god's. The God I know is not evil.

Psa 5:4; For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.
Isa 5:20; Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
3 Jn 1:11; Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.
Psa 11:5; The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
2 Cor 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
1 Jn 3:5; You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
1 Pet 1:16; because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

1 Thes 4:8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

 

[NetChaplain]

predestination

Hi BAC - To me, predestination is just one way which reveals God's omniscience in that He foreknows all who are going to come to Him, e.g. knowledge foreknown is knowledge predestined. I believe when one has a strong desire to come to God it's because He is "drawing" him, because "No man can come. . . except the Father . . . draw him" (John 6:44).

It is definite that all who come to Christ are "drawn" by the Father, but I'm still in research concerning a possible determination that not all who are drawn by the Father come to Christ, due to the possible concept that one can "resist the Holy Ghost" (Acts 7:51). My present observation concerning this issue is that resistance to the Spirit can be made outside of conversion, "as your fathers did, so do ye," but I do not believe one who has the Spirit (a believer) can resist His leading's. Once saved, our Father, through the Spirit causes us to "desire and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13; Gal 5:17; Rom 9:19).

It does not seem sensible, nor does it seem like God to be unfair by not "drawing" one to salvation, which possibly means He "draws" all, but not all (actually the generality of mankind will reject Him--Matt 7:13, 14) come. Any other concept than that which teaches God's drawing can be resisted would, at least for know to me, appear prejudice and we know "there is no respect of persons with God" (Rom 2:11; Eph 6:9; Col 3:25; 1 Pet 1:17).

 

[Sargento]

B-A-C...

Well we seem to be talking about two different god's. The God I know is not evil.

Psa 5:4; For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.
Isa 5:20; Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
3 Jn 1:11; Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.
Psa 11:5; The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
2 Cor 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
1 Jn 3:5; You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.
1 Pet 1:16; because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

1 Thes 4:8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.

Where did that came from? What does that has to do what the phrase you quoted from me????
I never said GOD was evil... HE is not Evil...

...however, to the wicked who does not abdicates from his own personal glory HE looks like evil because HE does not judges like man do (by appearances).

"For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
To the one {we are} the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who {is} sufficient for these things?"
2Co 2:15-16

The Gospel tastes like sweetness for the ones it saves, but it tastes like death for the ones it condemns... not all see GOD (as it is) has a good GOD.
HE his perfect, holy, and saint... but like Paul said, the natural man thinks that GOD is madness... because the goodness of GOD is not the goodness of men.

But then, that's not the point... is there something I said that the Bible does not embraces? What did I said to make you think this way?


NETCHAPLAIN...

Of those who are drawn by the father no one will be lost... that's Christ's promess... do you believe HIM?

Resisting to the Holy Ghost is the natural reaction of every natural man ... no one can accept the Holy Ghost of his own, only the ones that GOD gives a NEW HEART, and those are the ones that are convinced by the Holy Ghost... they accept HIM because they were transform, not of his free will which was evil before that transformation.

Do you know what "convinced" means? It means that he was defeated... when the Holy Ghost convinces man it means that he DEFEATED man and he became at HIS will... from that moment on the Holy Ghost takes over his life and Christ OWNS that man.

 

[NetChaplain]

Of those who are drawn by the father no one will be lost.

Hi Sarg - It is still mostly my belief that people can accept or resist the desire God gives in drawing them to Jesus. Otherwise it would require an admittance to the concept that He does not give this opportunity for salvation to all. It is presently my understanding that He has called the world to salvation (many called--John 3:16; 2 Pet 3:9; 1 Tim 2:4), but most will reject the call (Matt 7:12, 14) and not be chosen; "pluribus accersitus--pauci electus" (many called--few chosen).

Does God disallow opportunity for salvation to anyone? Does He already know--from eternity past--who will choose life (Deu 30:19)? No and yes!

 

[B-A-C]

Where did that came from? What does that has to do what the phrase you quoted from me????
I never said GOD was evil... HE is not Evil...

You said God controls everything, every decision.
There is evil and wickedness in the world, so if God causes everything, he must cause the evil and wicked decisions people do.
Matt 18:7; "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
John 7:7; "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.

 

[Sargento]

OK NetChaplain....

I don't know why I wrote to you when you always run instead of answering...

Anyway, even if you don't answer me I'll write for the others about this.



GOD offers salvation to all... all are invited.
The elect know it is by election and pure mercy of GOD that we trust and love HIM, but the wicked think that its in their hands and it's up to him to refuse o accept the gospel...

So we preach the gospel to all... we call everyone.... Jesus also call the Jews, Noah called all man, even Mouses "called" the Pharaoh to let the people of GOD go; but to how many is given the grace of believing and accepting it?
Because the believe and acceptance in the gospel is the grace of GOD that changed one's heart... in order to someone to accept the gospel HE has to make him reborn and change his will from evil to god, which by it self is already a free-will violation (unless you also think that you regenerate yourself).


If all can believe in the gospel than do it... why would they perish??? Why do they all choose death?


And with that in mind each one will be judged his by his own judgement.... if you could accept why didn't you?

God created the wicked with the purpose of serving the day of evil ... HE did not had to judge them because all is HIS and HE does what HE want with what is HIS, but to be fair (for HE primes for fairness) he invites them all to change their hearts, and in the end HE will judge what were they able to do and show them their sin so they become CONVICTED of their sin... because once the flesh is removed the hearts will be exposed... when the temporary is canceled the eternal will be exposed.. this will happen in the day of the LORD.

 

[Sargento]

You said God controls everything, every decision.
There is evil and wickedness in the world, so if God causes everything, he must cause the evil and wicked decisions people do.
Matt 18:7; "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
John 7:7; "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it, that its deeds are evil.

You realized that now?

Who do you think is going to destroy the universe and everyone existing at that time (including children and even unborn babies)? If HE controlling evil is a problem to you this must be too.

The wickedness (not actions - heart) of the wicked just shows that he's not a son of GOD.

However HE does it out of HIS love for HIS sons.
What more peace can we have than know that all is HIS work and that this so powerful GOD is our father and loves us?

That is his message in Isaias...

"And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call {thee} by thy name, {am} the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
I {am} the LORD, and {there is} none else, {there is} no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that {there is} none beside me. I {am} the LORD, and {there is} none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these {things}.
Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! {Let} the potsherd {strive} with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Woe unto him that saith unto {his} father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me."
Is 45:3-11

He's saying "rest my son, it's all me and no one else... there's no fight... and I love you and shall never leave you".
But natural man thinks this is unfair... and so he contests HIM.

 

[NetChaplain]

I don't know why I wrote to you when you always run instead of answering...

I'm not trying to avoid you, I just do not know your exact question or point, and I also thought my reply was an attempted answer to the issue of predestination of the elect and predestination of the lost. Again, I believe all things are predestined because God foreknows all and allows or disallows them to transpire, "being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph 1:11).

The mystery of God's grace of salvation to some and not to others varies between believers, so it is not likely very many will agree concerning it. This is not a faith-essential issue, but rather a faith-growth issue and it assists believers during fellowship in the Word to maintain a differentiation between the two, that we do not become exuberant, but rather "be zealously affected always in a good thing" (Gal 4:18).

 

[Sargento]

NETCHAPLAIN...

Yes it is a faith-essential issue... this is the essence of the Gospel.
This is the GOD you reject or accept.
This is the Jesus you believe or not, the one that elects who will HE save and who will HE not save, and we know the election has no merit on man, so it's ALL UP TO HIM and the counsel of HIS OWN WILL and purpouse, not ours.

OK, here is an exact question I asked you above:

Of those who are drawn by the father no one will be lost... that's Christ's promess... do you believe HIM?

If you believe your doubt should not exist.

 

[NetChaplain]

NETCHAPLAIN...

Yes it is a faith-essential issue... this is the essence of the Gospel.
This is the GOD you reject or accept.
This is the Jesus you believe or not, the one that elects who will HE save and who will HE not save, and we know the election has no merit on man, so it's ALL UP TO HIM and the counsel of HIS OWN WILL and purpouse, not ours.

OK, here is an exact question I asked you above:

If you believe your doubt should not exist.

I'm certain that all who are saved were drawn by the Father to the Lord Jesus and are eternally saved (Rom 11:29), but what I mean by faith-essential is that which is to be believed in to be a recipient of salvation; not all truths of Scripture are salvation-essential, e.g. there are many truths of Scripture which will not determine the receiving of salvation, i.e. believing the Gospel of Christ (Rom 10:9, 10) is salvation-essential, but not believing or disbelieving how one would understand "election" is not salvation-essential, but rather faith-growth essential, as understanding many other doctrines of Scripture which have to do with growth in salvation, not in receiving salvation.

Concerning Judas, he was given to Christ as an Apostle, yet not in eternal election, to be saved by Him.

 

[Sargento]

This matter is faith-essential... if you understand grace (in order to believe in it) this should not have this following belief.

Before you said:

It is still mostly my belief that people can accept or resist the desire God gives in drawing them to Jesus.

So I asked you:

Of those who are drawn by the father no one will be lost... that's Christ's promess... do you believe HIM?

And again like the last topic you're not answering it. Am I loosing my time again?

 

[spirit1st]

Lots of people reject the gospel and later accept it.

I find many come to the place where they see no hope in life? and then turn to the LORD. I guess they think? What have I got to lose?
Many on there death beds , think, there is nothing too lose now and accept Him.

But I believe it always based on love. Now Our love may not be very strong when we first decide He the only way? But He then fills us with His perfect love .

Many have given there lives for Him. Some wanted and did allow them selves to be killed . When They could have lived . Feeling that they would be rewarded for giving there lives for Him ?
Not sure they were rewarded for that? Because i am certain He wants us here as a living sacrifice. It so much easier to die than live.

But we can no longer help anyone once we leave here .

And this is the only chance we get to be a blessing now for His glory and honor. Leading others to the Lord and planting seeds of Truth so others can lead them .


The work is here for Him. The laws of heaven are LOVE and Faith. We must understand Love a giver .Never a taker. What LOVE does ? It does for good.
Our Lives in the LORD , Starts with LOVE and Ends in LOVE. God kingdom is based on perfect LOVE. We need to understand this. Everything GOD ever did was out of Perfect LOVE.
We do not understand this? We do not know GOD correctly.

I made lots of Bad choices ,God did not want me to make.It was not in His perfect will. But was in His permissive will. By grace HE allowed me to make mistakes . Then it taught me not to trust in me . Then I grow more in truth and faith and understanding.
It was choices I made with my carnal thinking . Now I believe it hurt GOD more than me. Still He allowed it. Like we might with our kids to some degree? To teach them , when they refused to listen to us.

Of course I am ashamed now, but back then ? I thought i saw everything clearly. But i Did NOT. Now I try to best to trust in Him 100%

I know now without a doubt , in His perfect will ? I will always be blessed with the best. That why now I pray ? if it can be in Your prefect will LORD? If not I would rather suffer without .
this is a really good lesson. To always pray and try your best to be in HIS perfect will . It not always easy or we are not always able to Be in it.

 

[NetChaplain]

So I asked you: Of those who are drawn by the father no one will be lost... that's Christ's promess... do you believe HIM? And again like the last topic you're not answering it. Am I loosing my time again?

I believe I answered it in # 35: "I'm certain that all who are saved were drawn by the Father to the Lord Jesus and are eternally saved (Rom 11:29). Again also, we are saying the same thing. Scripture is not clear why God wills or wills not to draw a soul to Christ, but it is definite that all who come to Christ were drawn and given by the Father and will not perish. There still lacks a sufficient answer to the reason why God will save some and not others, but salvation requires this drawing. He foreknew from eternity past that the generality of mankind would perish but did it for those He knew would not perish.

Concerning predestination, I believe Romans 9 addresses it the most and I'm still in much study and need of understanding (from the Spirit) how it collates with this issue.

 

[spirit1st]

Heb_4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[NetChaplain]

Heb_4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Hi S1st - Pretty relative Scriptures but not predestination-oriented, e.g. those who reject God is because He did not draw them.