RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
The best wishes for your study and spiritual journey, but no thanks!
Satan deceives the whole world
- Thread starter Grace
- Start date
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
Sure. In your study I would get an Exhaustive Concordance and word search the Bible for all the uses of replenish / replenished. I think it is possible that it does not mean exactly what you think it does?
Jeremiah 4
21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen *; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do ? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
When did or will this happen?
21 How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
29 The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen *; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
30 And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do ? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life.
31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
When did or will this happen?
Hi Grace I believe there is a lot lost in translation from Hebrew. Sooooooo rather than debate here is a tool that might help you and anyone else with your studies I will include Greek also
Online Hebrew Interlinear Bible
Online Greek Interlinear Bible
I pray you find them useful
Thank you!
I was offering the tools because you said you are studying not pointing out error. I know it is God who puts that desire in us to search out more and more of the mysteries of Him. He gave me the desires of my heart ........ Him!
My beautiful Savior
Redeemer of my soul
All the times I'm broken
You always leave me whole
Mysteries in what You do
Things I do not understand
It is because You are God
And I am just a man
peter
Is Jeremiah speaking of the time Jeremiah lived? He beheld the earth, but was it in a vision of another time?
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12,067
Possibly, but then.. what time would it be?
It was a time when...
The earth was without form and void
The heavens had no light
There was no man
All the birds fled
The fruitful place was a wilderness
The cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord, by his fierce anger
The whole land was desolate
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12,067
Jer 4:20; Disaster on disaster is proclaimed, For the whole land is devastated; Suddenly my tents are devastated, My curtains in an instant.
Jer 4:21; How long must I see the standard And hear the sound of the trumpet?
Jer 4:22; "For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding. They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know."
Jer 4:23; I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24; I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
Jer 4:25; I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
Jer 4:26; I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.
Jer 4:27; For thus says the LORD, "The whole land shall be a desolation, Yet I will not execute a complete destruction.
IMHO, this time is after people and cities and men are on the earth. this sounds like destruction of things that already exist, not the creation of new things.
It sounds like cities are being "pulled down" and birds have "fled". It sounds like there was a "fruitful land" that was turned into wilderness.
This has also been mentioned as part of Rev 16:19-20;
The fruitful land that was turned into wilderness has also been mentioned as the garden of eden.
Rev 13:14; And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life.
I agree! So when was there a time that men were not found on the earth? When did he destroy the whole land?
THat is what I see too!
There are still people on the earth in Rev. 16, right? So it can not be the same time would be my quess.
[quoteThe fruitful land that was turned into wilderness has also been mentioned as the garden of eden.[/quote] Interesting? How did you come to that conclusion?
But does he deceive everyone on the earth during the tribulation?
Rev.12 speaks of a time that satan was cast out of heaven with his angels and deceived the whole world!
Stickz
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ( KJV )
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called Devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ( Green's Literal Translation )
Revelation 12:9 and the great dragon was cast forth--the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world--he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him. ( Young's Literal Translation )
'Replenish' has a lot of different meanings. Many of the translations use the word 'fill' instead of 'replenish' or 'refill'.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. ( KJV )
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them and God sayd vnto them. Growe and multiplye and fyll the erth and subdue it and have domynyon over the fysh of the see and over the foules of the ayre and over all the beastes that move on the erth. ( William Tyndale 1525-1530 )
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, Bring forth fruite and multiplie, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule ouer the fish of the sea, and ouer the foule of the heauen, and ouer euery beast that moueth vpon the earth. ( Geneva Bible 1599 )
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over every animal that moveth on the earth. ( Darby Bible 1889 )
Just showing you how other people throughout the years translated the text. One would have to go into the old codices themselves to see how they felt about the job of the translators. I may check it out later, see what I can see.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called Devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ( Green's Literal Translation )
Revelation 12:9 and the great dragon was cast forth--the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world--he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him. ( Young's Literal Translation )
'Replenish' has a lot of different meanings. Many of the translations use the word 'fill' instead of 'replenish' or 'refill'.
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. ( KJV )
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them and God sayd vnto them. Growe and multiplye and fyll the erth and subdue it and have domynyon over the fysh of the see and over the foules of the ayre and over all the beastes that move on the erth. ( William Tyndale 1525-1530 )
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, Bring forth fruite and multiplie, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule ouer the fish of the sea, and ouer the foule of the heauen, and ouer euery beast that moueth vpon the earth. ( Geneva Bible 1599 )
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over every animal that moveth on the earth. ( Darby Bible 1889 )
Just showing you how other people throughout the years translated the text. One would have to go into the old codices themselves to see how they felt about the job of the translators. I may check it out later, see what I can see.
Stickz
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
I have never bought into the whole "world before Adam and Eve" thing, but even if there had been one, we don't have any scripture from anyone from that time and we don't have any stories from that time, so it must not matter much to us in this day and age.
Luke 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
"Since the world began"? The earth itself or just since Adam and Eve? Did God speak by the mouth of any prophet before Adam and Eve? If He did I know of nothing that was said. I believe that people started working on this whole "before Adam and Eve" thing because of the discoveries that scientists have made about the age of the earth and it was starting to discredit the Bible in some people's eyes.
The genealogies in the Bible only go back to Adam, who in turn is the one blamed for the fall of man which Jesus came to remedy, right? So, why worry about anything that may or may not have happened before Adam and Eve when it all started right there with Adam and Eve for us?
Luke 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
"Since the world began"? The earth itself or just since Adam and Eve? Did God speak by the mouth of any prophet before Adam and Eve? If He did I know of nothing that was said. I believe that people started working on this whole "before Adam and Eve" thing because of the discoveries that scientists have made about the age of the earth and it was starting to discredit the Bible in some people's eyes.
The genealogies in the Bible only go back to Adam, who in turn is the one blamed for the fall of man which Jesus came to remedy, right? So, why worry about anything that may or may not have happened before Adam and Eve when it all started right there with Adam and Eve for us?
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 12,067
If Satan is the being in Ezek 28:12-16; then he didn't rebel until after the earth was formed, and the garden of eden was created.
Also it says "deceives" as in present tense, not "deceived" as in past tense. So I am going with "almost" the whole earth. As there is no
possible time it could have been the whole earth.
There was man but they were destroyed by his fierce anger. Why would there be cities if there was no man? Animals existed because the birds fled.
Unless it was during the world that was before?!?
It says deceiveth!
What does void and without form mean to you?
Void-empty
Without form-He recognized the earth but it was without form. So what is he seeing that is without shape? What do you know that has no form or shape?
That is what I am trying to share! Scripture that points to that time. Have you read Jeremiah 4? When do you believe there was a time that was without form and void? The heavens had no light? The birds fled? A fruitful place was a wilderness? The cities were broken down by the presence of the Lord- his fierce anger? The whole land was desolate...yet God did not make a full end? Read 2 Peter 3:4-7..Heavens of old?
