Salvation By Transformation In Christ

[tulsa 2011]

Salvation By Transformation In Christ

On a Christian forum someone wrote: "Our citizenship is in heaven,
from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ",
(Philippians 3:20).

I don't know for sure which translation this is
from but I see that the New International Version says "a Savior." I
know it then says "the Lord Jesus Christ." But why add an article
before "Lord Jesus Christ" when the Greek has no article there? And
why add "a savior" instead of "the savior?"

"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the
Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:" Philippians 3: 20 Not "a Saviour"
but "the saviour." KJV.

The Greek literally says "from which also savior we are awaiting Lord
Jesus Christ." To be accurate, Greek to English translation should
always be word for word unless the Greek is so different from English
that following the word for word Greek makes no sense in English,
which is not often the case. And, if you are going to add an article
to the English translation, make sure it fits the overall meaning of
the sentence. The NIV "a savior" does not fit the meaning of the
sentence or sentences of Philippians 3: 20.

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus" (Philippians. 2:5)

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be
partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath
delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into
the kingdom of his dear Son: " Colossians 1: 12-13 This verse was
also quoted on the forum, though inm another translation.

"Translated," from methistano, is like transformed in Romans 12: 2,
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Transformed is from
metamorphoomai, metamorphosed, changed from one form to a very
different form. "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born
again, he cannot see the kingdom of God......That which is born of the
flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel
not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3: 3, 6-7

Going through a procedure - making an alter call or reciting the
sinner's prayer - as taught in many churches today does not in itself
guarantee that the person is transformed or born again in Christ, and
suddenly has the mind of Christ in him (Philippians 2: 5).

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest
them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy
children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her
wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you
desolate." Matthew 23: 37-38

"He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." Hebrews 10: 9

Even Paul, who experienced the most dramatic and sudden encounter with
the risen Christ on the road to Damascus, was not instantly
transformed by that traumatic experience. Acts 9: 8-9 says "And Saul
arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man:
but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. And he
was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink."

Then in Acts 9: 11-18 the Lord sent Ananias to Paul, and in verse
17-18, "And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and
putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus,
that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that
thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he
received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized."

The scales coming off of Paul's eyes is a metaphor for him receiving a
new, transformed spiritual sight, in addition to him having his
physical eyesight restored. Paul was transformed by Christ through
the Holy Spirit, and not by a procedure of doing something like making
an alter call, joining a church, or reciting a sinner's prayer without
really repenting. Much of the contemporary church appears to teach a
Gospel saying that one can be saved in his sins, that we have a Christ
who will forgive us our sins, which to the church means we can remain
in sin and be saved. In this kind of "salvation" there is no lasting
spiritual transformation, no becoming a new creature in Christ (II
Corinthians 5: 17). We have to battle the flesh all the time, but the
will of a transformed person is to avoid sin. And staying in obvious
false doctrines is a sure indication one is not born again.

In Paul's case, his will was not to be transformed in Christ, and in
fact he was fervent in his opposition to Christ when he set out for
Damascus. But Christ himself appeared to him and that broke his will.
This one example, however, does not mean that everyone who comes to
be born again in Christ, is opposed to being born again in him and
that that will has to be broken. Some people who come to Christ are
initially willing to do so and be transformed, contrary to Five Point
Calvinism.

Anyone, after the Cross, must be transformed in Christ, born again,
made into a new spiritual being, as a Son of God, and no longer just a
servant (John 8: 35-36), whether he is of physical Israel or of any
other blood to be in the kingdom of God. " Christ "...hath made of one
blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,"
Acts 17: 26

 

[spirit1st]

Listen our Spirit Mind is the same type mind as our LORD JESUS. It just does not have all the knowledge. Our Flesh mind is slowly changed as we read God Word and have experiences with Him.

The New birth is a New Baby Spirit in the image of Our Lord JESUS.

We still dwell in corrupt flesh bodies with it confused mind? It full of bad thoughts we picked up from childhood . It has all those defiled thoughts , it gained from the old man . Our old Spirit.

But though our New Spirit we can live the life our Lord wants us too. The More we live and walk though our New Creature the less we will sin and the More we will appear as our Lord Jesus.
The scales were very real and a shock to Paul. God was revealing His Power to Him , that He never forget.
that was part of the beginning of Paul mighty faith.

Our Flesh is Born a sinner and dies a sinner. It weak and needs to be controlled though our New spirit man. It is born with a sin nature and dies with that nature. We must be careful what we allow our flesh mind to record . Because ? what goes in will or at least might come out?

We can fill it with Truth and then live pretty perfect for our Lord. Or we can watch evil junk and listen to evil junk and then not live the Life the Lord wants us too?

Paul was a great man of God . Yet knew He could sin in the flesh. He calls it A BODY of Death .

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Listen ,He will not hold our sins in the flesh against us in the eternal once we are Born again [New Creature] But we can suffer in the flesh and even die before our time by sinning. If we sin ? We Must repent. and if we sin in our minds and do not know it ? Then we might get sick and need to obey James.

This works .
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

But we do not want to have to do this.

Sin a killer. God is LOVE as HE put within each who are Born of GOD SEED.

 

[tulsa 2011]

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying..... Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." I Corinthians 14: 26,29-32


This is a glimpse into one of Paul's home assemblies, which reveals that many members participated in an active way, and did not just sit and listen to someone teach and preach to them - as Paul, Timothy or others of Paul's group apparently did at times. But the assembly also allowed a lot of participation.

"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:" Colossians 1:21-24


In most verses of the NT in which ekklesia is used, it describes a particular assembly, meeting or congregation at some particular city, usually in a home. But in Colossians 1: 24 Paul equates the Body of Christ with the ekklesia, the meeting, assembly or congregation.


If a large number of people in these assemblies had not been transformed or born again, and were still in the state of the natural man of I Corinthians 2: 14, who cannot receive the teachings of the Spirit, he would not have equated the meeting or assembly in a generalized way with the Body of Christ, which has also to be the elect. If the assembly is made up of more people who are not born again than those who are transformed, it as a group cannot be called the Body of Christ, though some in the group are of that Body.


But those in organized groups called the church have redefined church, and in fact the meaning of church as a Body of Christ has undergone several re-definitions going back to the time of the Capital C Catholic Church. So Church today clearly does not mean the same thing as Paul meant in Colossians 1: 24 by the ekklesia when he equated it with the Body of Christ.


The doctrines taught in the generalized ekklesia are man made theologies built upon earlier man made theologies. Dean Gotcher, who is the expert on the dialectic in Christianity, said that after he got a teaching degree in Christian education, and was out of college for a while, that he decided to go to a Christian seminary. He enjoyed learning Greek. But one day in a class focused on some theologian with good image, he asked the teacher and the class why are we spending so much time in studying a man's opinion on the Word of God rather than studying the Word itself? He got nothing but silence. He walked out, never to return to a Christian seminary.



Church also means something a little different today than it meant in the period from the Reformation to the 18th century.


And church is something very different today than it was in Paul's small assemblies in the First Century.


So much as been redefined that the spiritual condition of the ekklesia as a generalized group made up of many local assemblies fulfills Paul' prophecy in II Timothy 3: 5, 7-8, "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away......Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith."

 

[spirit1st]

The true church is Unseen. It made up of those who have been given a New Spirit man. The New Creature , inward man, Hidden man, New Man , inner man . It All our New Spirit and God child.

We All have the spirit of Prophecy.And much more. We are All Equal in His body. Each with our own Ministry?

We must be Born -Again , a New Birth in order to be part of the True church. Only then are we one of the Elect.
We are All called , but not all become one of the elect. The Called can hear the :Lord ,just as we do? But He only dwells in our Spirit .

Rev_19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

We All just babies in our Spirit at our beginning in the LORD. So we going to be very carnal at our beginning. Not understanding much . But under greater grace. As we grow? He expects more out of us.

None of the disciples started off running. They All started off crawling as we All do.
That why we do not get upset when others do not understand the correct understandings. Some might get mad and call us names
. Because what we teach makes no sense to them . even if they are based 100% on scriptures . Because the carnal thinking , this appears foolish. Also it takes the Holy Ghost to open our eyes to the correct spiritual understanding.

We All going though a Learning Process , I think it never ends while in this flesh?
But the good thing about that is ? We All have somethings to share with our family here in the LORD.

Each has a special place in His body . Thank You LORD JESUS.

 

[james1523]

The idea of visible vs invisible church is a Platonist belief that true reality is invisible.

If the true church is invisible then it can never be persecuted, and never be divided.

Yet this contradicts the Bible which clearly indicates that the matter of divisions and denominations is a serious matter that affects our testimony to the world.

The true church has a seen aspect and an unseen aspect, but it is not correct to say the true church is unseen and the false church is seen. The true church is both seen and unseen. The false churches are both unseen and unseen. It is not that true church is unseen and false church is seen. The false churches are not churches at all, but sects.

 

[spirit1st]

We Dwell in flesh bodies , Other wise we could not help others . Lead others to the LORD. So our flesh bodies are important to reach other.

Rom_10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Mat_10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

How can we do these things without a body?

But we Must be able to control and LORD over this flesh body or we can do nothing.
We see that in the churches? Few are using there bodies for the LORD Glory. Few tell the way of Salvation. Much less walk in His power?

Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Do we look like the Church at it beginning?

Joh_14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

My personal opinion is None of us I know of are living up to What He Expects us to be doing. I count me there also of course.