Rick Warren Says We Do Not Need More Bible Studies

[tulsa 2011]

Rick Warren Says We Do Not Need More Bible Studies

Rick Warren said "The last thing many believers need is to go to another Bible study. They already know far more than they are putting into practice. What they need are serving experiences in which they can exercise their spiritual muscles."

A big reason why several false doctrines were able to establish themselves in the 19th century was because church Christians did not know scripture well enough to know the difference between truth and false teachings. Humanism, which is influences upon Christians from the world and reliance on that which is of the flesh, had even then conditioned them to accept man made theologies which contradict the doctrines of the Bible, especially Paul's revelation from the risen Christ (Acts 26: 15-18).

Now, in 2013 one of those 19th century man made theologies which took over a majority of the evangelical church denominations decades ago is better known to millions of Christians than are the scriptures themselves. But seeing how this man made theology is another Gospel and leads to worship of another Jesus, and coming out of its main starting doctrines - for example, one starting doctrine is that God now has two peoples, the church and physical Israel - is not enough to become born again (John 3: 1-7) and be transformed by the renewing of the mind (Romans 12: 2). Just coming out of that man made theology may not be enough to enable one to join Paul's Jerusalem which is above, is free and the mother of us all (Galatians 4: 25-26, and to become free of the Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children. Rejecting these starting doctrines of dispensationalism may not be enough to become born again, and to have something of the mind of Christ. Just rejecting the starting teachings of this now dominant man made theology may not be enough to become spiritually alive, to be one of the lively stones of I Peter 2: 5, to be a stone in the new rebuilt temple of spiritual Jerusalem, or the Holy City, the New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven (Revelation 21: 2).

Another reason for the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3 and the leavening of the church of Luke 13: 21 is the revolt against the Textus Receptus and the three great English translations from it, the Tyndale, Geneva and King James Version. Having two main Greek texts, which have different verse wordings in many cases, and having a huge number of English translations, almost all from the Alexandarian Greek texts, rather than the Textus Receptus, has caused confusion about what is the authentic and absolute word of God, which diminishes faith that the Word is absolute.


There is another block to becoming those lively stones of I Peter 2: 5, that is, those stones which have spiritual life in them during the last days restoration of Israel reborn in Christ. This is something that is not easy to understand. Dean Gotcher has spent years explaining this block or stumbling block. Its the dialectic. But what is the dialectic? First, the dialectic is an argument against the doctrines of the New Testament, especially the revelation given to Paul, which, if not fully understood and accepted, leaves an empty place where the man made theology can take hold, and return in part to Jerusalem which is and is in bondage with her children, and to being one with the children of the flesh, which are not the children of God (Romans 9: 6-8).

The dialectic comes out of humanism, out of the worldly system, but its a specific kind of humanism which is more subtle and deceptive. It has diminished belief in absolute truth and absolute morality. Without absolute truth and morality, it is impossible to have strong faith in the doctrines of the Bible and to please God. Without a strong faith in the absolute truth of the Word of God, it is very hard to resist man made theologies. These man made theologies seem to simplify the complexity of scripture, but in that simplification the man made doctrines bring in man's flesh, that is, two part man, with only body and mind, and without man's spirit. The scriptures themselves seen as absolute truth can, with the Holy Spirit, inspire the regeneration of our spirit as our third part which is having some of the mind of Christ in us.

Begin to study the audios and writings of Dean Gotcher, who is a Road Warrier, or the spiritual Road Warrier (Ephesians 6: 11-17). Dean is still on the road, speaking to small groups wherever he is welcome. Few churches will welcome him, because he brings a message that they cannot hear in their present spiritual condition. Yet he did speak on February 3, 2013 at the Victorville Valley Bible Church, California. Link deleted. Google "Dean Gotcher at Victorville, Valley Bible Church."

 

[Coconut]

What they need are serving experiences in which they can exercise their spiritual muscles.

Has the kingdom of God become one gigantic gymnasium, where men get to build themselves up with the latest fitness equipment?

The world has watched man flex their spiritual biceps...of both theological prowess and power.... to the point of ad nauseum....

What believers really need is Jesus Christ on the inside. Nothing external can replace the power of His Holy Spirit within. Nothing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Rick Warren Says We Do Not Need More Bible Studies

Rick Warren said "The last thing many believers need is to go to another Bible study. They already know far more than they are putting into practice. What they need are serving experiences in which they can exercise their spiritual muscles."

A big reason why several false doctrines were able to establish themselves in the 19th century was because church Christians did not know scripture well enough to know the difference between truth and false teachings. Humanism, which is influences upon Christians from the world and reliance on that which is of the flesh, had even then conditioned them to accept man made theologies which contradict the doctrines of the Bible, especially Paul's revelation from the risen Christ (Acts 26: 15-18).

Now, in 2013 one of those 19th century man made theologies which took over a majority of the evangelical church denominations decades ago is better known to millions of Christians than are the scriptures themselves. But seeing how this man made theology is another Gospel and leads to worship of another Jesus, and coming out of its main starting doctrines - for example, one starting doctrine is that God now has two peoples, the church and physical Israel - is not enough to become born again (John 3: 1-7) and be transformed by the renewing of the mind (Romans 12: 2). Just coming out of that man made theology may not be enough to enable one to join Paul's Jerusalem which is above, is free and the mother of us all (Galatians 4: 25-26, and to become free of the Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children. Rejecting these starting doctrines of dispensationalism may not be enough to become born again, and to have something of the mind of Christ. Just rejecting the starting teachings of this now dominant man made theology may not be enough to become spiritually alive, to be one of the lively stones of I Peter 2: 5, to be a stone in the new rebuilt temple of spiritual Jerusalem, or the Holy City, the New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven (Revelation 21: 2).

Another reason for the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3 and the leavening of the church of Luke 13: 21 is the revolt against the Textus Receptus and the three great English translations from it, the Tyndale, Geneva and King James Version. Having two main Greek texts, which have different verse wordings in many cases, and having a huge number of English translations, almost all from the Alexandarian Greek texts, rather than the Textus Receptus, has caused confusion about what is the authentic and absolute word of God, which diminishes faith that the Word is absolute.


There is another block to becoming those lively stones of I Peter 2: 5, that is, those stones which have spiritual life in them during the last days restoration of Israel reborn in Christ. This is something that is not easy to understand. Dean Gotcher has spent years explaining this block or stumbling block. Its the dialectic. But what is the dialectic? First, the dialectic is an argument against the doctrines of the New Testament, especially the revelation given to Paul, which, if not fully understood and accepted, leaves an empty place where the man made theology can take hold, and return in part to Jerusalem which is and is in bondage with her children, and to being one with the children of the flesh, which are not the children of God (Romans 9: 6-8).

The dialectic comes out of humanism, out of the worldly system, but its a specific kind of humanism which is more subtle and deceptive. It has diminished belief in absolute truth and absolute morality. Without absolute truth and morality, it is impossible to have strong faith in the doctrines of the Bible and to please God. Without a strong faith in the absolute truth of the Word of God, it is very hard to resist man made theologies. These man made theologies seem to simplify the complexity of scripture, but in that simplification the man made doctrines bring in man's flesh, that is, two part man, with only body and mind, and without man's spirit. The scriptures themselves seen as absolute truth can, with the Holy Spirit, inspire the regeneration of our spirit as our third part which is having some of the mind of Christ in us.

Begin to study the audios and writings of Dean Gotcher, who is a Road Warrier, or the spiritual Road Warrier (Ephesians 6: 11-17). Dean is still on the road, speaking to small groups wherever he is welcome. Few churches will welcome him, because he brings a message that they cannot hear in their present spiritual condition. Yet he did speak on February 3, 2013 at the Victorville Valley Bible Church, California. Link deleted. Google "Dean Gotcher at Victorville, Valley Bible Church."

I'd say Rick Warren is in error. He shouldn't fault people for what the Holy Spirit is doing in the world and in the Church today.
Keep your eyes on God, Rick, not man.

 

[B-A-C]

I just think it needs to be a balance.
It can't be all scripture with no love, life or Spirit.
There are many people who know the Bible but don't know what it really means.

But it can't be all "feeling" without scripture.
There are many people who say they "are lead of the Spirit" that aren't even close to God's word.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I just think it needs to be a balance.
It can't be all scripture with no love, life or Spirit.
There are many people who know the Bible but don't know what it really means.

But it can't be all "feeling" without scripture.
There are many people who say they "are lead of the Spirit" that aren't even close to God's word.

Even love comes with doctrine and instruction.

Think of Saul/Paul. He was a Pharisee. A Pharisee of Pharisees, he called himself. He knew the Scriptures. He studied them daily.

BUT when the Holy Spirit came and he became a Christian all that knowledge came alive and he understood more with the enlightenment and illumination of the Holy Spirit than he ever knew.
The Seed of the Word of God was planted in his mind. It was the Holy Spirit that gave that Seed in him understanding of the Word of God.

Rick is in error. There's nothing wrong with the Seed. When the Holy Spirit is ready with revival in the Church it will come.

Oh, boy, it will come!

Until then the Holy Spirit is today withdrawing Himself from the Church and from the world. In order for darkness to increase the Light of the Holy Spirit must dim. It is He, the Holy Spirit, that keeps evil in check.

 

[tulsa 2011]

What does Rick Warren mean by "What they need are serving experiences in which they can exercise their spiritual muscles."

One does not necessarily have to have a good understanding of scripture to help people in trouble who have physical needs. If Warren really means exercising one's spiritual muscles, according to scripture and not according to his supposed mix of Biblical Christianity with the New Age Occult, then what he could be talking about is found in Ephesians 6: 10-18.

One serves the Lord by proclaiming the truth, and when those who do not want the truth verbally attack and become nasty, one picks up his Cross and follows Christ, that is, he bears reproach.

Ephesians 6: 11 says "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

To have what Warren calls "spiritual muscles," that is, to be in Christ so that he gives you the whole armour of God, one needs to have the Holy Spirit, who leads us into truth, and love of the truth, which we get by understanding scripture, with the inspiration of and joy of the Spirit.

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

You cannot stand for truth against the devil - his minions who attack you for proclaiming the truth - unless you know Christ, who is revealed in the Bible, and by help from the Spirit.

"Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness."

You don't stand against the metaphoric construct of Revelation 13: 11, the False Prophet, who represents many False Prophets, who looks like a lamb, but who speaks as a dragon unless you have Christ in you, who is again revealed by the Word of God, which you have to read and understand to some level. Looking like a lamb, but speaking as a dragon means this is deception, which the Lord himself and his Apostles warned us about several times (Matthew 24: 4-5, Mark 13: 5, Luke 21: 8, I Corinthians 6: 9, II
Timothy 3: 13, I John 3: 7, Revelation 18: 23, etc)

A person who goes into an area or place where there are many people who do not want to hear the truth of scripture and nevertheless proclaims the truth is exercising what "spiritual muscles" he has, which Rick Warren seems to be talking about.

But Warren is deceptive in his statement that "The last thing many believers need is to go to another Bible study. They already know far more than they are putting into practice. What they need are serving experiences in which they can exercise their spiritual muscles." He is being deceptive because his followers on the broad way do not know the scriptures very well and know man made theology instead, so that they, as the large number, do not "already know far more than they are putting into practice." They as the majority, the huge number, do not know the Word of God well enough to avoid deception and false doctrines, or to stand in the truth and whole armour of God against the Dragon and his human minions. Warren is speaking propaganda rather than from the Lord.

 

[Hekuran]

Here's the text of what Rick Warren wrote. If you read it all, you can see that the thrust of his message is to emphasise the importance of service, not to diminish Bible study.

It's disappointing that a thread which purports to be so concerned about truth and propaganda is so lazy in quoting a Christian leader out of context.

We Are Commanded to Serve God
by Rick Warren

“Your attitude must be like my own, for I, the Messiah, did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give my life” (Matthew 20:28 LB).
We are commanded to serve God. Jesus was unmistakable: “Your attitude must be like my own, for I, the Messiah, did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give my life” (Matthew 20:28 LB).
For Christians, service is not something to be tacked onto our schedules if we can spare the time. It is the heart of the Christian life. Jesus came “to serve” and “to give”—and those two verbs should define your life on earth, too. Serving and giving sum up God’s fourth purpose for your life. Mother Teresa once said, “Holy living consists in doing God’s work with a smile.”
Jesus taught that spiritual maturity is never an end in itself. Maturity is for ministry! We grow up in order to give out. It is not enough to keep learning more and more. We must act on what we know and practice what we claim to believe. Impression without expression causes depression. Study without service leads to spiritual stagnation.
The old comparison between the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea is still true. Galilee is a lake full of life because it takes in water but also gives it out. In contrast, nothing lives in the Dead Sea because, with no outflow, the lake has stagnated.
The last thing many believers need is to go to another Bible study. They already know far more than they are putting into practice. What they need are serving experiences in which they can exercise their spiritual muscles.
Serving is the opposite of our natural inclination. Most of the time we’re more interested in “serve us” than service. We say, “I’m looking for a church that meets my needs and blesses me,” not “I’m looking for a place to serve and be a blessing.” We expect others to serve us, not vice versa.
But as we mature in Christ, the focus of our lives should increasingly shift to living a life of service. The mature follower of Jesus stops asking, “Who’s going to meet my needs?” and starts asking, “Whose needs can I meet?” Do you ever ask that question?

 

[Boanerges]

Rick Warren thinks allah is God; he is not God, but a god of demonic origin. allah was a stone idol, and this demon brings death wherever he goes.All these facts can be easily demonstrated with the simplest of internet searches.
That my friends, tells us Rick Warren should not be followed but should be prayed for.

 

[Hekuran]

Rick Warren thinks allah is God; he is not God, but a god of demonic origin. allah was a stone idol, and this demon brings death wherever he goes.All these facts can be easily demonstrated with the simplest of internet searches.
That my friends, tells us Rick Warren should not be followed but should be prayed for.

Here's Rick Warren responding to those claims in interview

Rick Warren on Muslims, Evangelism & Missions
with Brandon A. Cox & The Christian Post

QUESTION: Do people of other religions worship the same God as Christians?
WARREN: Of course not. Christians have a view of God that is unique. We believe Jesus is God! We believe God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not 3 separate gods but one God. No other faith believes Jesus is God. My God is Jesus. The belief in God as a Trinity is the foundational difference between Christians and everyone else. There are 2.1 billion people who call themselves Christians… whether Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Pentecostal, or Evangelical…and they all have the doctrine of the Trinity in common.

QUESTION: A recent newspaper article claimed you believe Christians and Muslims worship the same God, that you are "in partnership" with a mosque, and that you both agreed to "not evangelize each other." You immediately posted a brief refutation online. Can you expand on that?
WARREN: Sure. All three of those statements are flat out wrong. Those statements were made by a reporter, not by me. I did not say them ... I do not believe them... I completely disagree with them ... and no one even talked to me about that article! So let me address each one individually: First, as I've already said, Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims. We worship Jesus as God. Muslims don't. Our God is Jesus, not Allah. Colossians 2:9 "For in Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Second, while we urge our members to build friendships with everyone in our community, including Muslims and other faiths, ("Love your neighbor as yourself"), our church has never had any partnership with a mosque. Friendship and partnership are two very different levels of commitment. Some of our members have hosted a Bible study with Muslim friends, which I applaud, but I've never been to it, and a Bible study certainly isn't any kind of partnership or merger! It's just crazy that a simple Bible Study where people explore Scripture with non-Christians would be reported as a partnership and others would interpret that as a plan for a new compromised religion. Just crazy! Third, as both an Evangelical and as an evangelist, anyone who knows me and my 40 year track record of ministry knows that I would never agree to "not evangelizing" anyone! I am commanded by my Savior to share the Good News with all people everywhere, all the time, in every way possible! Anyone who's heard me teach knows that my heart beats for bringing others to Jesus.

 

[farout]

The Rev. Rick Warren & Rev. Joel Osteen both have some theology that is remarkable! If the Holy Spirit is in your life then the warnings should speak loud and clear that false teaching is being tickled in the ears of those who like milk from the bottle, sucking the ****** of their twisted doctrine. Be alert that when book's like Warrens uses at least 10 different Bible versions to get oughts proven by using many Bibles verses can be a way to twist Scripture to say what you want it to.

Rev Joel Osteeen is even more of a false teacher. There is nothing he takes a strong stand on, homosexuality, Jesus being the only way to salvation. But Rev. Opra has given both rev's her seal of "that sounds like good stuff to her".

If anyone takes offence in this post then you may just be one of those who have been taken captive by the sweet deadly teachings of these two false teachers. But remember the Rev. Rick Warren and the Rev. Joel Osteen are "America's Pastors" according to Rev. Opra.

 

[Hekuran]

The Rev. Rick Warren & Rev. Joel Osteen both have some theology that is remarkable! If the Holy Spirit is in your life then the warnings should speak loud and clear that false teaching is being tickled in the ears of those who like milk from the bottle, sucking the ****** of their twisted doctrine. Be alert that when book's like Warrens uses at least 10 different Bible versions to get oughts proven by using many Bibles verses can be a way to twist Scripture to say what you want it to.

Rev Joel Osteeen is even more of a false teacher. There is nothing he takes a strong stand on, homosexuality, Jesus being the only way to salvation. But Rev. Opra has given both rev's her seal of "that sounds like good stuff to her".

If anyone takes offence in this post then you may just be one of those who have been taken captive by the sweet deadly teachings of these two false teachers. But remember the Rev. Rick Warren and the Rev. Joel Osteen are "America's Pastors" according to Rev. Opra.

I am not very familiar with either Rick Warren or Joel Osteen, and am not equipped to launch a defence of either.

What I do want to say is that there ought to be a code of conduct in the way that we comment on Christian leaders. If we find their teaching is lacking, then we should be very careful in the way that we attack it. Make sure that we represent what they are saying accurately and honestly, and comment on the strength of their teaching as well as its weaknesses.

Some of the posts in this thread are not very responsible. Sure, Christian leaders are not beyond criticism, and there is a place for debate and disagreement. But pulling down prominent Christians in this intemperate way is damaging to them and ultimately to the reputation of Christ's church. I think we can do better

 

[B-A-C]

Here's the text of what Rick Warren wrote. If you read it all, you can see that the thrust of his message is to emphasise the importance of service, not to diminish Bible study.

It's disappointing that a thread which purports to be so concerned about truth and propaganda is so lazy in quoting a Christian leader out of context.

I agree. I have read some of Rick Warren's books. While I don't agree totally 100% with everything he says, I have to say I doubt he is a follower of Allah or believes Allah is God.
As far as his statement about "The last thing we need is another Bible study", perhaps he may have said it. But in what context? I know he has written books on Bible study.
I myself have said things like "the last thing I need right now is another gallon of milk", but a few days later I needed more milk. I tend to think a lot of this is either false or taken out of context. As far as Joel Osteen goes is another matter, I am not defending him.

 

[Boanerges]

Here's Rick Warren responding to those claims in interview

Rick Warren on Muslims, Evangelism & Missions
with Brandon A. Cox & The Christian Post

QUESTION: Do people of other religions worship the same God as Christians?
WARREN: Of course not. Christians have a view of God that is unique. We believe Jesus is God! We believe God is a Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Not 3 separate gods but one God. No other faith believes Jesus is God. My God is Jesus. The belief in God as a Trinity is the foundational difference between Christians and everyone else. There are 2.1 billion people who call themselves Christians… whether Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Pentecostal, or Evangelical…and they all have the doctrine of the Trinity in common.

QUESTION: A recent newspaper article claimed you believe Christians and Muslims worship the same God, that you are "in partnership" with a mosque, and that you both agreed to "not evangelize each other." You immediately posted a brief refutation online. Can you expand on that?
WARREN: Sure. All three of those statements are flat out wrong. Those statements were made by a reporter, not by me. I did not say them ... I do not believe them... I completely disagree with them ... and no one even talked to me about that article! So let me address each one individually: First, as I've already said, Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims. We worship Jesus as God. Muslims don't. Our God is Jesus, not Allah. Colossians 2:9 "For in Christ dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Second, while we urge our members to build friendships with everyone in our community, including Muslims and other faiths, ("Love your neighbor as yourself"), our church has never had any partnership with a mosque. Friendship and partnership are two very different levels of commitment. Some of our members have hosted a Bible study with Muslim friends, which I applaud, but I've never been to it, and a Bible study certainly isn't any kind of partnership or merger! It's just crazy that a simple Bible Study where people explore Scripture with non-Christians would be reported as a partnership and others would interpret that as a plan for a new compromised religion. Just crazy! Third, as both an Evangelical and as an evangelist, anyone who knows me and my 40 year track record of ministry knows that I would never agree to "not evangelizing" anyone! I am commanded by my Savior to share the Good News with all people everywhere, all the time, in every way possible! Anyone who's heard me teach knows that my heart beats for bringing others to Jesus.

I had read the opposite from a half a dozen web sites. I hope and pray you are correct.

 

[farout]

I encourage you to watch Rev. Joel Osteen tv program. Then you will have a far better way to judge for your saelf. Any preacher that can or can not say that Jesus Christ is the only way to be with the Lord after we die, is not worth one square inch behind the Pulpit. We need to expose false teachers for what they are.

I am a fairly kind soul, and in my ministry I build up people in Christ. At one when Oral Roberts was trying every gimic to raise money for his hospital. A couple in the comunity who had sent Oral Roberts about $ 10,000.. His wife needed a kidney removed because it was dead, and they contacted Oral Roberts hospital and reminded them of the money they sent in "seed faith" tp brother Oral. But they just could not help her. That was a real example of a thief and a person that money was his total motive for "serving the Lord". No he was a down right gimic maker to gain more wealth.
If you wish to debate Oral, jole or Warren that would be all right. But I believe you need to more fully investigate these "christian Leaders". The post I put up is NOT irresponsible. I sincerely hope by alerting christians to these men's greedy ways will ultimately make christians more aware of how those ministries are not worthy of their support.

You are right about a code of conduct, go to google and so some searching to see if you can fine a ministry watch. There are several and perhaps you change your mind. As for their strngth's, you got to be joking! Should we praise to good quality food in rat poisin, after all it's only 3% poisin the rest is good food. A wishy washy attitude says, we are all wonderful people we just have to look a little harder for goodness in some is weakness. Perhaps Hitler was really a kind warm harted man, but he had a very difficult childhood and no one cared about him. There is sin in us all, we all are capable of making some very serious mistakes, but when a person like Oral Roberts took advantage of ignorant poor people that's down right wicked!

From my stand point for thousands of people to follow Joel Osteen's "yellow brick road to hell" someone has to say "watch out this is not what Jesus said!"

 

[will]

Rick Warren quote: "But as we mature in Christ, the focus of our lives should increasingly shift to living a life of service. The mature follower of Jesus stops asking, “Who’s going to meet my needs?” and starts asking, “Whose needs can I meet?” Do you ever ask that question?

Mr. Warren was addressing mature believers. Given this qualifications, what he said above, is true.
Immature Christians only needs one thing: grow in the Spirit.
Growing Christians will do the services above and beyond their human nature because God has enlarged their capacities.

And all Christians need not peck on other believers so we sounded like a gossip tabloid (he said this, she said that... ad nauseum). We all can learn from *anyone* who exposes us to more Scriptures, why? because the Holy Spirit is our real teacher, not any other human beings.

Do I agree with most of what Mr. Warren teaches? no, but it is unwise for me to label him as though he is a one-dimensional cartoon character. It will only give me a false sense of righteousness which can (and will) be used by the enemy to trip me over in my walk with the Lord.

 

[james1523]

The Word of God is like food.. we should eat it regularly to satisfy our hunger but don't eat too much in case we get too full and vomit it out. If we have a big meal one day the next day we will not feel like eating much. The key is consistency over time.

 

[tulsa 2011]

We are living in an age of deception. Christ warned us about deception three times just in Matthew 24, in verses 4, 5 and 24. Paul warned about deception in I Corinthians 3: 9, and in II Timothy 3: 13 he wrote, "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." The present day follower of the false prophets will say, "Oh, no, my leader is not a deceiver." John in I John 1: 8 and in I John 3: 7 also warned about the deadly effects of deception.

In Revelation 12: 9 we are told that Satan deceives the whole world. He is the master deceiver, who empowers that metaphoric construction in Revelation 13: 11-18 who looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon. He uses the dialectic, a dishonest and deceptive way or making arguments against Biblical doctrines. Revelation 18: 23 teaches that by the sorceries of Babylon "were all the nations deceived." Revelation 18 is about the fall of Babylon, at the time of the "last end of the indignation" in Daniel 8: 17. Revelation 18 talks about the merchants, the world traders, but its also about mystery Babylon, Christianity under false doctrines. Revelation 18: 4 calls the people of God out of mystery Babylon, organized Christianity after the leaven has leavened the whole (Luke 13: 21).

In the falling away (II Thessalonians 2: 3-4) and leavening of the churches (Luke 13: 21)
most Christians are deceived by false teachers who have good images - who serve the appearances - and teach false doctrines, which the people will accept. They are now being deceived by false prophets, and its hard to find those who have not accepted some form of false doctrine, which they received from celebrities. The Christian celebrities are the False Prophets warned about in several scriptures, in Matthew 24: 11, II Peter 2: 1, I John 4: 1 and mentioned in Revelation 16: 3, 19: 20 and 20: 10. The second beast of Revelation 13: 11-18 represents many False Prophet, who have taken over the churches. But those who follow the lamb wherever he goes, and have his mind in them, will not be deceived by Christian celebrities with their lies.

In Revelation 9: 15, 18 the metaphoric serpents, also described as the huge "army" of horsemen in Revelation 9: 16 are said to slay or kill the third part of men. But Revelation 9: 18 says the third part of men are killed by what issues out of the mouths of the serpents and horsemen, the False Prophets. "By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths." The third part of man, his spirit, is being killed by these False Prophets, leaving man with two parts, body and mind, or sixty-six percent of what he should be.

Then Revelation 12 talks about a metaphoric woman who flees to the wilderness, and in verse 15 Satan casts out a flood after her, and in verse 17 the devil is said to be mad at the woman and her seed, the remnant, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Again, what attacks the metaphoric woman is from the mouth of the serpent. It is words from the False Prophets. The flood from the mouth of the serpent is False Doctrines.

In II Corinthians 10: 7 Paul asks "Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? " After the outward appearance is from kata prospopon, according to appearance. Prospoon can mean the face, visage, surface, external form, or appearance (Moulton, Harold K. The Analytical Greek Lexicon revised, 1978, p 353). Prosorolerteo means to pay regard to external appearance (Moulton, p.353). A prosopoleptes is a "respecter of persons" in Acts 10: 34.

Christ says in John 7: 24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Within our post-Christian culture image is everything. Some years ago,a TV commercial on NBC for Canon cameras told us that "Image is everything."

In the image culture success has become more and more a matter of giving An appearance of being successful and attractive. And the main game in the worldly culture is to win image and success for oneself. An artist is successful when he attains to much image.

Network television is responsible for making the the image culture, created earlier by Hollywood movies, much more
a dominating part of popular culture. Most viewers of network TV were seduced by a medium that was so deceptive that viewers did not know they were bring hoodwinked by the dumb show. Network TV weakened the cognitive abilities of many viewers and also reduced their capability of detecting deception on TV and in real life.

American Christianity is not separate from the image culture.

A person who has been dumbed down by network TV - and by other means and through other media - is more likely to fall for the messages of secular and Christian celebrities, than a person who has greater cognitive abilities to discern lies and truths behind images.

We are living in a time of increasing cognitive dimness. And spiritual darkness follows cognitive dimness and deception with its dumbess regarding truth, especially among Christians, and increasing moral insensibility. Often contemporary people cannot tell the difference between truth and lies - in Christian doctrines and elsewhere.

Some Christian celebrities include Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell,
Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Tim LaHaye, Grant Jeffrey, John
Hagee, Rick Warren,
Robert Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart, Chuck Smith,
and Hal Lindsey. Almost all of these Christian celebrities teach the
pre-tribulation rapture theory, that God has two distinct peoples, the Jews and the Church, that
Christians cannot be Israel and that the Jews, saved or unsaved,
remain the chosen of God. However, Rick Warren, like Robert Schuller, does not
emphasize dispensationalist doctrines. Yet both are Christian celebrities.

The Christian celebrity system is to a great extent responsible for
the present day widespread
popularity in the churches of the doctrines of the pre-tribulation
rapture, the separation of church and Jews, and that the Jews remain God's chosen people.

Before the secular celebrity system spread to politics, sports, the
arts, the military, education,
business and to Christianity, it was confined to Hollywood film stars.
Richard Schickel in his book, Intimate Strangers: The Culture of
Celebrity, 1985, says the celebrity system began in the period of
1895 to 1920 with early Hollywood movie stars. Some of these early
celebrities of film were Mary Pickford, Charlie Chaplin, Douglas
Fairbanks and William S. Hart.

George Comstock, a TV
effects researcher, says that "It is pretty well established that film
models can be as effective as live behavior models...One impressive
study is that of Bandura and Ritter in which film models were
successful in the desensitization of
phobias over snakes." Christian celebrities acting as role models for
other Christians may not often appear in Hollywood movies, but they do
appear on television, on the radio, in books and now on the Internet.
A celebrity role model can teach Christians sound doctrine
from Scripture, but such a celebrity role model can also teach man made
theologies which do not agree with Scripture. Many Christians do not want to hear
many of the doctrines of scripture and so this is a reason why the False Prophets teach false doctrines.

In the image culture, it is the image of the writer, or broadcaster in
audio or on TV, which determines, to a great extent, whether his
audience will think he has spoken the truth or not.
When a person using one of the media says something which is
unfamiliar to the audience, they rarely investigate to see if that
statement is true. Rather, they more often look to the person's image
- his or her image of attractiveness and success. If he or she has a
good image and is considered a celebrity, his or her statement is more
likely to be accepted as the truth than such an unfamiliar statement
coming from someone not considered to have a good image.

Daniel J. Boorstein in The Image: Guide to Pseudo-Events in America,
1965, says we now live in a world "...where the image has more dignity
than its original...We have become eager
accessories to the great hoaxes of the age." In the image culture of
movies, TV, newspapers, magazines and the Internet, the image is more
real that what it is supposed to represent. The mass media, and its
celebrities, create our illusions that we live by. Boorstein writes
about the "thicket of unreality" in the American image culture.

The False Prophets that Christ warned would appear in the end times
are the Christian Celebrities. As celebrities, these False Prophets can get
their messages of false doctrines out in the Christian and secular media of print, radio, TV,
movies and now on the Internet.. The image
culture in the media makes it possible for them to deceive Christians into
believing their messages.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and
shall deceive many." (Matthew 24: 11). False prophets can more easily
deceive Christians in an age of deception.

"That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will
not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy
not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy
deceits:" Isaiah 30: 9-10

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but
after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having
itching ears" II Timothy 4: 3

 

[farout]

After reading your post there are a few that are listed that does not fit with the others. Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, and Chuck Smith, have all been morally upright with no scandles. They may be all be preTrib preachers, but at least they preached Jesus Christ and are Biblical for their messages. I would never consider Oral Roberts, Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, John Hagee, or Rick warren, Robert Schuller, Jimmy Swaggart worthy to be named with the rest of those named before them..

 

[Boanerges]

Preachers are all just as human as any of us (like the great Apostle- o wretched man that I am) . Look close enough and you will surely find the cracks.
No matter who said it, no matter what our opinion of them, we need all the Bible studies we can get.