Join Us Today!

Join our non-denominational community with 10,000+ members and more than 50,000 monthly visitors today. Engage in bible discussions, studies, prayer support and friendly fellowship.

Richard Dawkins "I'm Not Certain God Does Not Exist"

Discussion in 'News Stand' started by dannibear, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. Me thinks that heaven is not what awaits them if these last words are to be believed:

    Marilyn Monroe: “I don’t need your Jesus.” Related by Billy Graham who tried to present the Gospel message to Marilyn, just before she died at age 36.

    Joseph Stalin, (who murdered many millions of his countrymen), while on his deathbed - as related by his daughter Svetlana to Malcolm Muggeridge: “He suddenly sat up,
    groaned, shook his fist at the ceiling as if he could see beyond it, then fell back and died.”

    Voltaire, one of history’s best known atheists, often stated that “by the time I’m buried, the Bible will be non-existent.” His last words were: “I am abandoned by God and man;
    I shall die and go to hell alone.”

    Julian the Apostate (Roman emperor who hated Christians), was leading his forces in the battle for Persia in 363 AD. He was mortally wounded, and as he lay dying on the
    battlefield, picked up some of his own blood, mingled with dirt, flung it skyward and said: “Thou hast conquered oh Galilean.” (A reference to Jesus).
    My note: The hope is that he was saying this in surrender to Christ as Lord and Savior.

    Robert Ingersoll, noted lecturer and avowed anti-Christian on his deathbed said: “Life is the cold and barren value between two eternal peaks. I strive in vain to see beyond the
    distant height. I cry out and the only answer I hear, is the echo of my empty wail.”

    H.G. Wells, historian and the ‘apostle of modernism’, and a determined atheist: “Here I am at age 64, still searching for peace of mind. It is a hopeless dream”

    Talleyrand (called the most brilliant mind of his generation) when asked about his condition while on his deathbed replied: “I am suffering the pangs of the damned.”

    There are more, but it is truly a sad thought that not only these but some many more have died without Hope in Christ Jesus! So I'll add some to uplift as well!

    President George Washington: “Doctor, I am dying, but I am not afraid to die.” He folded his hands over his chest and said: “It is well,”

    John Wesley, preacher and songwriter: “The best of all is that God is with us, farewell, farewell.”

    Michelangelo, famous painter and sculptor: “I die in the faith of Jesus Christ, and in the firm hope of a better life.”

    David Brainerd, (well known missionary): “I am going into eternity and it is sweet to me to think of eternity.”

    William Pitt, British statesman: “I throw myself on the mercy of God, through the merits of Jesus Christ.”

    Charles Haddon Spurgeon, beloved preacher and author, on his deathbed: “I can hear them coming!” He sat straight up in bed and asked: “Don’t you hear them? This is my
    coronation day. I can see the chariots, I’m ready to board.”

    Sir Michael Faraday, (brilliant English scientist 1791 – 1867), was asked when he was near death: “What are your speculations now?” He answered: I have no speculations. I
    rest upon Jesus Christ who died, and rose again from death.”

    Dwight L. Moody, famous preacher and founder of the Moody Bible Institute, while on his deathbed: “Can this be death? Why it is better than living! Earth is receding, heaven
    is opening. This is my coronation day”

    Some are awesome to contemplate while others terrible envisioning as true (With great sadness).
    C4E
    2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
     
  2. #42 Peace Seeker, Aug 16, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
    Since the subject of this thread is Richard Dawkins, my comments may mostly be about evolution, not sure yet, though. Anyway, regarding evidence, when you attempt to make conclusions about God, you are starting from a conclusion that God is not real, so how can you see an intelligence behind the design of anything with such a dogmatic, heavily-guarded paradigm?

    Funny thing is, I see no evidence at all that atheists don't believe in God, based on the fact that they spend so much time talking about Him. Or is talking about the make-believe a badge of honor and prerequisite for atheism? If your passion is to talk about things you don't believe in, that seems pretty strange to me!
    To wit, I don't believe the moon is made of cheese so if there was a forum that said it is, I wouldn't go to it with vigor and passion, debating with them, like so many atheists do at Christian sites, because the notion is absurd to me. Yet you, thinking Christianity to be absurd, nonetheless make a big effort to bother with it.

    I guess you love absurdity as much as you think Christians do!

    What do you have to gain by coming to this forum? Not one atheist has ever answered me why they insist on coming to Christian sites to insult and pester the people there. Especially since I have never encountered an atheist that has even a modicum of desire to be open-minded and willing to learn when they come to Christian sites, because as I have learned, atheists have it all figured out! As a Christian I love the bible, studying it, and involving myself in similar things. So why is atheism not stimulating enough for you, that you need to bother Christians about what stimulates them?

    You have never experienced the healing hand of God on you - a miracle - yet you know for certain that miracles don't exist. Much like you have never searched the entire universe but you presume to know God isn't in it. If I say I have experienced a miracle, you will dismiss it as superstition, wishful thinking, or give it a naturalistic explanation, or something else; because as I said, you believe there is no such thing as miracles. This is the searching, objective mind of science, and to think it is Christians that are always accused of circular thinking!

    On what moral basis do you declare the ichneumon wasp's reproduction method to be gruesome? Because you don't like it? What of it? To use "evolutionary biology-speak", the universe doesn't care if you don't like it. The wasp certainly is happy with the arrangement and by evolutionary standards the wasp is doing nothing wrong, because there is no wrong or right in godless evolution. So why do you see something unpalatable with the ichneumon wasp?

    And why is it okay for nature to do what it wants, IE: create gruesome wasps, but not okay for a Creator to make His creation as He pleases? Man wants God to be made into his image, and rejects Him and excoriates His character when He doesn't conform to our expectation of Him. Nothing new under the sun there!

    Regarding your mention of the word, "benign". The Creator would be a meanie (not benign) for making that wasp, but as long as there is no creator you're fine with it, right?

    As to the death of Darwin's daughter, why is a human being more important than a Streptococcus bacteria? This is not a flippant question, it is a very important one for you to explain, seeing as every evolutionary biologist, Darwinist, etc., that I've read or watched say humans are nothing special as pertains to our huge, meaningless cosmos. That's why atheistic communism, whose progenitor, Karl Marx - a contemporary of Darwin, one who was influenced by him - could kill 100 million people in the 20th century, because they believed life was meaningless, and people were nothing special at all, nothing more than just extremely unlikely occurrences in a vast cosmos that doesn't need them, much less cares about them.

    So whereas Darwin may see scarlet fever as being maleficence if a Creator was responsible for it, according to Darwin's "strive and survive" paradigm, it is a most natural thing when an organism negatively impacts another in order to assure it's own survival.
    This no doubt sounds crude and heartless on my account, (and it is not intended to be) but it is not me that makes an idol out of "survival of the fittest" and then cries about it when it doesn't go as I would like it to.

    The bug that killed Darwin's daughter was just doing what it needs to do to survive.

    I'm sure you're aware that Christians believe the world was perfect at the start and mankind screwed things up by sinning against God, resulting in the fallen world we are in? This resulted in death being brought in to His creation, for as the bible says, the wages of sin is death. It is never a pretty outcome when we fall into the hands of the living God in disobedience. So your comment about whose side God is on is a moot point, because God never designed things the way they are now. We have freewill, and we chose to use that freewill in rebellion, and have been blaming God and pointing our self-righteous finger at Him for the horrible consequences ever since.

    Nice one, give yourself a round of applause! Since when is belittling others equal to an intellectually sound, substantive argument? It's hilarious to me that atheists think that a so-called terse explanation or comment from a Christian means he is "wanting". I almost expect you to ask me to compare I.Q.s with you! Go ahead, you know you wanna!

    If you can stop thinking so highly of yourself for just a moment, perhaps you can consider that maybe I just don't have the time, or desire, to engage in long and endless debates with atheists, who by my experience in dealing with them, are not interested in what I say, whether I write 10 words or 10000. Nor do I owe it to you to write until my hands fall off, so you can tell me about parasitic wasps and pat yourself on the back at how smart you are - in your mind - at foiling the dumb, inept Christian.

    Ad hominem attacks, I never met an atheist that didn't use them! Good on ya'! That's a really nice display of atheistic self-superiority and smugness. Or more aptly, childishness and insecurity.

    By the way, here's what I think is the difference between random design and purposeful design, using art as the example : the former is finger painting and the latter is a Mona Lisa. You don't look at both and decide they were both randomly designed. Or maybe you do? I know you'll disagree with that, because in your mindset, given enough time anything is possible. In fact, anything is likely to you, except God. Go figure.

    Isaiah 2:11
    The eyes of the arrogant will be humbled
    and human pride brought low;
    the Lord alone will be exalted in that day.
     
  3. #43 Strypes, Aug 17, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    Peace Seeker,

    I totally agree with your diagnosis.

    Atheists, in my experience, reject the possibility they could be wrong in their conclusions and therefore reject any challenge to their assertions. When the discussion gets uncomfortable for them, they retreat to attacking the person. When their arguments are analyzed, scrutinized and found to be in error, instead of acknowledging their flawed logic and learning something, they retreat to attempting to undermine the discussion with irrelevant insults and derogatory comments specifically implying we couldn't possibly understand such a concept as evolution due to our limited understanding. (blah blah blah)...

    Recently, on another forum, I shared my experience of God answering my prayer very specifically. It is a long story and God shines brightest in the details but I will try to tell it (the main point) and the atheist response.

    On July 15th of this year, I was watching a video from Comic-Con and my computer went nuts. I had let my antivirus program expire as I did not have the provisional funds to renew it. And I got hacked big time. The thing totally took over my computer and demanded I pay 59.95 and give them my credit card number.. (I would buy a new computer before I gave them a dime)

    Anyway, I talked to the computer guy at walmart and he told me that buying an antivirus program would do no good as the malware would not allow it to be uploaded. Discouraged and clueless as to what to do to save my computer, I prayed.

    I had been trying to get the search doggy to find the program that had over taken my PC. When I stopped (exasperated) and prayed what I said to God was "You know where that Trojan is, please help me" and in my spirit I heard The Holy Spirit say, "search 'created on 7-15-2012'". so I did (keep in mind I am not computer savvy) The search resulted in 873 hits. I started at the last one and deleted them manually (yes it took a long time) but it worked. I regained control of my PC and went back to walmart and bought a Antivirus program and here I am typing on my PC now. Praise God.

    When I conveyed this story on the other web site, my atheist nemesis responded with how inept my God is and listed a dozen other things (pressing f-8's and stuff) that would have fixed my computer. Totally rejecting my experience and belittling God.

    Please keep in mind.. What the Holy Spirit instructed me to do worked! It was brilliant!

    Anyway.. my point is I have experienced the antics of atheist and no matter what the subject, they seem to ignore facts to suit their purposes and delight in mocking God. Tiz true.
     
  4. Hey Strypes, funny you should mention computers and answered prayer!

    A few months ago my computer was definitely DYING and well on it's way to being totally dead, useless, wrecked. It had being having the "blue screen of death" every time I so much as tried to do the smallest activity on it; it wouldn't power up, sometimes not down, and other things were happening that would be too time-consuming to relate here. It seemed like the motherboard was going, and a bunch of other things simultaneously.

    To be clear, I'm not talking about some minor glitches in an old PC, or something that was a minor deal that wouldn't take much to remedy. This was a seriously screwed up PC that was on it's way out. Nothing worked as it should and other than the rare times I could even turn it on (after much tinkering) to play a game of cards for a few minutes before it froze up. It was basically a big piece of electronics taking up space in my room.

    Although my PC is 3 years old, at the time I bought it it was top notch in everything, and even now it still beats a lot of the new ones in it's features and capabilities. It has great RAM, processing speed, video card, serial bus, motherboard, etc., not a cheapo one by any means. Which meant I was not impressed at the prospect of it totally seizing up in front of my eyes and my being without a PC, or having to pay $90 an hour for who knows how many hours of work at the shop to get it repaired, if it could be in the first place!

    But I pretty quickly reasoned that it is just a thing, and I am not attached to my things, so if it is toast, so be it, either way my Redeemer lives kinda thing.

    So to cut to the chase, after my PC was obviously literally past the point of no return and all but dead, I quickly prayed to God and said, "you give and you take away, so if you want me to have this PC please fix it (because, while I am pretty tech-savvy in most cases, this was way out of my reach), if not, I will get another one and no big deal if it isn't near as good as this one is".

    I think I went to bed after that and put it out of my mind. The next morning, I pushed the power button and out of habit waited for it to seize up right away and cause me all sorts of problems and grief, when to my surprise it turned on problem-free, loaded all the programs and by all appearances was working perfectly, as if nothing had ever been wrong with it! It was having all those problems for at least 2 weeks, now all of a sudden, nothing! No frozen screens, blue screens, software that wouldn't run, things that wouldn't open or close, lost memory, lost programs, etc. It was working as good as ever, and it has been ever since! A $1600 PC saved from the brink, and I had nothing to do with it!

    I know without a doubt that God fixed my computer. It was toast and He decided He wanted me to continue to have it. But tell that to an atheist and I am certain he will immediately scoff and say there was nothing wrong with my PC, it was just a minor thing that I don't understand, or a million other excuses to detract from the fact of the matter. Funny how they weren't there but they know better than you. It was not something that could have been fixed by simply doing some routine thing. It was nothing to do with the F8 button, going into my BIOS or stuff like that. Like I said, I am not a newbie when it comes to diagnosing and self-repairing my PC, so I know a dying PC when I see one.

    Anyway I just thought I'd give you this story after you related yours. Thanks for sharing! And yeah, I agree there is hardly a subject an atheist will cede to you, because they are skeptical to the core, wearing it like a shield to protect them from having to face up to anything that may not fit into their tight little prepackaged box. Plus they are all legends in their own minds.

    BTW, to any lurking atheists, this post is between 2 Christians, on a Christian forum, about their experiences. I know you already don't believe what was said here, so kindly be a big boy and don't take it upon yourself to jump in with your high and mighty insults. That gets really old, and fast.
     
  5. #45 Strypes, Aug 17, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    Fabulous story! Thank you for sharing it.

    Another thing the antagonistic atheists like to use as a "come back" when miracles in the lives of believers are shared is the "when God heals an amputee then I will believe your 'miracle'" rebuke.

    When they do that, I think of the guy from Australia that was born with no limbs and how he brings glory to God and thousands have given their lives to God because of his testimony. I am going to go find it on youtube and see if Chad will let me post the link...
     
  6. Yes! I've seen him, he is amazing and his name is Nick Vujicic.
     
  7. Came across this verse just now, which reminded me of this thread, which says it all. We pray Lord that they might see!

    2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
     
  8. Let us Pray for this man. :) In all the years I have listened to him that is probably the most honest of all his statements.
     
  9. Thank you for sharing your personal opinion, but in the Christian Bible, the concept of maturity is a definite and clear one.

    You can find examples of mature Christians in the New Testament (the Apostle Paul would be the obvious one). You are welcome to check whether they are gripped by doubt or not. And the good news is, *every* Christians are called to become mature ("Teleios" is the Greek word), and the Bible prescribed how to grow into it.
     

Share This Page

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 0)