Regards to wealth and possessions

[Rad]

God clearly show with the woman and the talent and the rich man that it is about intent, and that you are not forced to give more than you have, and that you should give being glad in your heart meaning if it is by force, no.

But if you have riches, then your "intent" is clear, to keep that wealth for yourself, for that by definition is being rich. And no one can really be forced to give, we should give out of Compassion and love for those suffering, but often other emotions come into play as well. We may feel guilty about all we have while others have so little, we may even feel a certain amount of fear that we give so little while the need is so great and what the consequences of that may be. But God sees into our hearts and knows us better than we know ourselves and sometimes guilt and even fear can be the forerunners of good.

And then we have that everyone should put aside each week what everyone have decided in their heart. It is all about the heart. If you give and you don`t want to or hold on to it, what merit does it give you. And what merit does it give you if someone stands and tell you give a certain amount it is the same going nowhere. It is about the heart.

Of course its our personal decision about how much we should give, and that decision will be judged by God alone, for he alone knows everything about us and his alone is a perfect judgement. But one thing is clear, however we choose to define it, the possession of riches is condemned by Christ on many occasions, and what is "rich" will be determined by God, alls we can do is look around Gods world, see the suffering and deprivation of so many, look at what we've got and come to our own judgement, taking into consideration Christs teaching on the subject, just what we should rightly keep and what we should give to those in need.

I think God is talking about moderation. That it is not wrong to ALSO buy something to you, but that it is about moderation. And of course normal needs met etc. But it is what everyone decides in their heart. we all have different circumstances.

As far as i can see it Christ talked little about "Moderation". His teaching was a radical Love and Compassion based on Loving your Neighbour as yourself and treating others as you'd want to be treated. He talked of " Blessed are those that HUNGER and THIRST after Righteousness", Matthew 5:6, He spoke of giving ALL you have to the Poor and following him", Mark 10:21, Luke 12:33, he spoke of "Denying yourself, taking up your Cross and following him" Matthew 16:24 and in the story of Zacchaeus, it is only after Zacchaeus has given nearly ALL his wealth away that Christ pronounces, "today has Salvation come to this house", luke 19:1-10. Turn the other cheek, love your enemies and so many more sayings of Christ illustrate the radical call he has on our lives and it seems to me that "Moderation" is the call of our sinful nature to make our lives easier but further from what Christ calls us to be.

So noone can say to another what they should or should not give but I think the key is moderation in your circumstances. I think it is about doing SOMETHING. what we CAN not what we can`t. You can`t expect to let the poor give money they gonna need for living for example there that is the woman with the talent again. what each can do. If one has a lot of money that is a given, a bigger share.

Each of us, as professed followers of Christ, must come to that decision alone, but it will be a reflection of the state of our heart and faith, as much as the situation we find ourselves in, what that decision will be.

 

[Rad]

the situation in many countries considered rich, is the rents or mortgages are sky high, after paying rent or mortgage, utilites, tax, you are basically left with only food to live on if you are lucky a bit more. that is the situation for most of us, unless, you have a high paying job or work more than one. So rich, in that comarison, no

It is easy to see that Christ on many occasions condemns the possession of Riches and calls upon his followers to give those riches to those in need, indeed, to give them in helping him and thus storing up Treasure in Heaven

Its harder to determine what constitutes riches for those who consider themselves just "surviving". That is why i tried to put the issue into some sort of worldly context, for it is Gods world and not just individual countries. Alls i can say is to illustrate how i judge myself to be rich. Here in the Uk i have a roof over my head, i have clean water coming out the tap, i have food on the table, i have access to health care , i run a small, old car and have, what many others in my society would probably regard as a low income, being reliant on a basic state pension, what i regard as a rich income. When i see millions, tens of millions starving, when i see them homeless, drinking dirty water and having no access to health care and struggling to survive every single day, when i know that thousands of children will die today from hunger and disease because theyre born into poverty, then i KNOW that i'm Rich and that Christ requires me to sacrificially give to those suffering, to those in need, to him. But we must all make that call for ourselves in the knowledge that Christ calls us to Love our Neighbour as ourselves and that in the face of the poor and suffering we see Christ himself. Matthew 25: 35-40.

 

[Rad]

I have never understood why the need to gather a lot of money. If it is not a purpose like buying your own place etc then I don`t understand it. Some things like that can be valid.

I think we always have to remember that what constitutes "a lot of money" is a highly subjective assessment and depends who you are comparing yourself with. As i said , although in the society i live in i would be regarded as not having "a lot of money", compared to many in Gods world i am Rich in my Earthly possessions. But the ultimate question is not how others view my riches, but how God does.

And where did Christ ever say that storing up Treasure on Earth for "buying your own place" or a "comfortable retirement" is a valid use of the resources entrusted to you. As far as i read it in Matthew 6:19-24 Christ says "Do NOT store up Treasure on Earth....", no exceptions, no justifications, just a flat "Do not".

But else, no point. Living comfortable in oid age well I guess that is another one, but on the other hand we can be gone tomorrow. A balance act. You don`t need the most fanciest place. Just comfortable. Never been into materialism. Simply no interest. I have never been the type who dream of all money I want. It has no interest. People can have a love of materials and money even if they have nothing. I think moderation is the key

Again being "Comfortable" is a highly subjective term and can mean different things to different people, encompassing a wide range of self justification for the riches we possess. As far as i see it, Christ calls on us to deny ourselves, take up our Cross, give ALL we have to those in need, to hunger and thirst for Righteousness sake and follow him regardless of the hardships we face. I believe that "Comfortable" and "Moderation" are words that our sinful natures use to try to justify the unjustifiable, of reducing Christs call of radical Love and compassion involving sacrifice and hardship to a form that we find more palatable.

 

[Rad]

In these times, many if not majority is trying to stay afloat. You cannot be out of touch with reality in regards to living cost. Don`t confuse the concept of global wealth percentiles with actual day-to-day financial security. Having your income swallowed up by skyrocketing rents, mortgages, and utility bills means you are experiencing relative poverty or living on the edge of it- regardless of how your life looks compared to a developing nation.

Before i reply to this let me just say that i am a worthless sinner, a hypocrite, for i believe that i know what God requires of me and will tell others the same, but struggle to put it into practice in my own life. I am the Publican in Christs story of the Pharisee and the Publican, Luke 18: 9-14, only too aware of what a wretch i am and how much i am in need of Gods forgiveness and Grace. But i try to do better, and perhaps its in the trying that Gods Grace may be bestowed on me, for we are ALL sinners, ALL in need of forgiveness and Grace and ALL fall far short of whats required of us.

! am not judging anyone here, just putting what i believe to be the position as regards the level of wealth enjoyed by most people in the rich countries, even those that consider themselves barely "staying afloat", although i doubt if thats the majority, and the absolutely horrendous levels of poverty, death and suffering faced by hundreds of millions of men, women and children living in poor countries, and asking the question, " Are we the rich that Christ condemned on so many occasions", and if we are, then what judgement faces us?.

Comparing someone who is struggling to pay for basic groceries to someone in a developing country is a false equivalent. It is a form of spiritual gaslighting used to induce unearned guilt.

How is making the comparison between the lives of those in rich countries , even those "struggling to pay for basic Groceries" and the ;lives of people in developing countries "Spiritual Gaslighting"?. And the feeling of "Guilt" will only arise if the person who feels guilty believes they are doing something wrong, if they care, if they have compassion for the suffering of others and believe that even the little they have when compared to others in their rich society, are riches indeed when compared to those that truly have nothing and are suffering and dying in their thousands every day from hunger and disease.

True christian teaching emphasises meeting people where they are with empathy, not judging them from behind a keyboard.

Thats true, Christ did meet people "where they are", but never flinched from telling them the reality of their situation and what God requires of them. And i'm judging no one, either from "behind my keyboard" or face to face, i may judge their actions, but i do not judge them, for that judgement is Gods prerogative alone.

It is also recommendable to check the church or charity`s spreadsheet, income and outgoings and transparency before giving to organisations, or, as an alternative, give directly to the ones to get help.

Agreed!.

 

[Rad]

Its in the intent. Salomon had a lot of responsibility. just think about how much his many wives cost him lol a whole kingdoms consumption in a day.. and immediately his whole town.. wow.

While its true that in the Old Testament riches in themselves were not condemned, in fact in some cases Riches were seen as a result of Gods favour, in the New Testament Christ plainly condemns the possession of Riches and the rich that possess them.

It is not God changing his mind, but as Christ said the "fulfillment of the Law", Matthew 5:17, and covers many things as listed in Matthew 5: 21-48, where Christ begins with the words " You have heard that it was said by them of old time..." and then goes on to say " But i say to you....", to try to justify the possession of Riches through OT examples and teaching is to completely ignore Christs words on the matter.

 

[Hannah1]

While its true that in the Old Testament riches in themselves were not condemned, in fact in some cases Riches were seen as a result of Gods favour, in the New Testament Christ plainly condemns the possession of Riches and the rich that possess them.

It is not God changing his mind, but as Christ said the "fulfillment of the Law", Matthew 5:17, and covers many things as listed in Matthew 5: 21-48, where Christ begins with the words " You have heard that it was said by them of old time..." and then goes on to say " But i say to you....", to try to justify the possession of Riches through OT examples and teaching is to completely ignore Christs words on the matter.

well you`re not rich, if you only have money for food after everythings paid. I believe that goes for majority.

 

[Hannah1]

While its true that in the Old Testament riches in themselves were not condemned, in fact in some cases Riches were seen as a result of Gods favour, in the New Testament Christ plainly condemns the possession of Riches and the rich that possess them.

It is not God changing his mind, but as Christ said the "fulfillment of the Law", Matthew 5:17, and covers many things as listed in Matthew 5: 21-48, where Christ begins with the words " You have heard that it was said by them of old time..." and then goes on to say " But i say to you....", to try to justify the possession of Riches through OT examples and teaching is to completely ignore Christs words on the matter.

It`s in the intent. What we do with it. He lets us enjoy too, just not hoard everything. Big difference.