Question : he who restrains

[norapture]

When Jesus comes with His Church, He will be gathering to Himself those who are here---Israel, who will have received Him as their Messiah during that terrible time of Tribulation.

OK for I'm clear on what you are say this gathering in v1 is not the rapture but his second coming.

 

[norapture]

When Jesus comes with His Church, He will be gathering to Himself those who are here---Israel, who will have received Him as their Messiah during that terrible time of Tribulation.

OK for I'm clear on what you are say this gathering in v1 is not the rapture but his second coming.

 

[Ophel]

OK for I'm clear on what you are say this gathering in v1 is not the rapture but his second coming.

Yes, he is talking about the second coming.

 

[norapture]

Yes, he is talking about the second coming.

2 Thessalonians 2: 1
Now we beseech you brethren , by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering unto him.

So if Paul is talking about the second coming , he was tell these brethren that his ( Paul ) gathering and the brethren's gathering would take place at Christ second coming .

He does use the term ((our)) gathering

 

[Ophel]

2 Thessalonians 2: 1
Now we beseech you brethren , by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering unto him.

So if Paul is talking about the second coming , he was tell these brethren that his ( Paul ) gathering and the brethren's gathering would take place at Christ second coming .

He does use the term ((our)) gathering

I believe nit is a reference to Israel, to the Jews at that time. Pretty prophetic.

 

[Steven]

The man of sin is the one who letteth and will let until he be taken out of the way. Because much of the people of that time will be under a strong delusion. 2 Thesalonians 2:11 Many will not know it is him until the brightness of his coming. (Jesus coming).

 

[Ophel]

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8(NKJV)
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


"He" is definitely not the Antichrist, for when "He", the restrainer moves out of the way, the Antichrist will be revealed.

 

[norapture]

I believe nit is a reference to Israel, to the Jews at that time. Pretty prophetic.

The truth is Paul was talking to brethren in Christ Jesus whether they are Jew or gentile ,
because in Christ Jesus there is neither jew or gentile but we are made all one, a new creature in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ophel]

The truth is Paul was talking to brethren in Christ Jesus whether they are Jew or gentile ,
because in Christ Jesus there is neither jew or gentile but we are made all one, a new creature in Christ Jesus.

While there will be many Gentiles who will welcome Jesus on His return, the Tribulation period is the time set aside for God to reckon with Israel with the Church removed. Hence it is called "the time of Jacob's Trouble".

 

[norapture]

While there will be many Gentiles who will welcome Jesus on His return, the Tribulation period is the time set aside for God to reckon with Israel with the Church removed. Hence it is called "the time of Jacob's Trouble".

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and the house of Judah.

Its this the covenant , the agreement , God made with Israel, or is there another agreement, or covenant?

 

[Ophel]

I don't think there is yet another covenant. God tells us that all Israel will be saved. Israel will greet their Messiah when He returns and will enter His Millennial Kingdom as part of the survivors of the Tribulation who will welcome Him.

 

[norapture]

I don't think there is yet another covenant. God tells us that all Israel will be saved. Israel will greet their Messiah when He returns and will enter His Millennial Kingdom as part of the survivors of the Tribulation who will welcome Him.

So you believe all Israel
will be saved

 

[Ophel]

So you believe all Israel
will be saved

That's what the bible says, so of course I believe it.

Romans 11:25-27
I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say,


“The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
27 And this is my covenant with them,
that I will take away their sins.”

 

[norapture]

That's what the bible says, so of course I believe it.

Romans 11:25-27
I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. 26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say,


“The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
27 And this is my covenant with them,
that I will take away their sins.”

So you also believe Paul when he said in Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly , neither is that circumcision , which is outward in the flesh
2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly , and circumcision is that of that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter , whose praise is not of men , but of God.

Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them , and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit , if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you, Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace
11:6 And if by grace, then bit is no more of works, otherwise grace is no more of grace, But if be of works, then is it no more of grace, otherwise work is no more work.
11:7 What then? Israel
( hath not ) obtained that which he seeketh for , but the ( election ) hath obtained it, and the (rest were blinded )

God has been saving Israel all this time , the election of grace and the rest will be blinded .

Cause they are Israelites
In the flesh or Jew does not make them all Israelites or Jews, its of the Spirit.
If they don't have the Spirit of Christ they are none of his.


Now to say all Israel will be saved because they are Jews would be against what Paul says.

If all Israel will be saved then that is to say no Israelite is in hell, just because he is a Israelite,
but I'm afraid there has been many go there because they didn't believe in the only begotten son of God.

St John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned , but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Today is the day of salvation, so why do so many people tell the Jews God is coming back to save them after a rapture, then God will deal with Israel during the tribulation ,
He has never stop dealing with them , but they must be saved just like anyone else by repenting and believing the gospel,
that Christ died and rose the third day , that he is the way, and only way.

Jesus made a new covenant by shedding his blood on the cross for Jew and gentile alike and as many that will believe in him no mattere what race .
It is a everlasting covenant , there will not
be another , and he will not turn back to a old covenant .

 

[Ophel]

So you also believe Paul when he said in Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly , neither is that circumcision , which is outward in the flesh
2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly , and circumcision is that of that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter , whose praise is not of men , but of God.

Galatians 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them , and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit , if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you, Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace
11:6 And if by grace, then bit is no more of works, otherwise grace is no more of grace, But if be of works, then is it no more of grace, otherwise work is no more work.
11:7 What then? Israel
( hath not ) obtained that which he seeketh for , but the ( election ) hath obtained it, and the (rest were blinded )

God has been saving Israel all this time , the election of grace and the rest will be blinded .

Cause they are Israelites
In the flesh or Jew does not make them all Israelites or Jews, its of the Spirit.
If they don't have the Spirit of Christ they are none of his.


Now to say all Israel will be saved because they are Jews would be against what Paul says.

If all Israel will be saved then that is to say no Israelite is in hell, just because he is a Israelite,
but I'm afraid there has been many go there because they didn't believe in the only begotten son of God.

St John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned , but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Today is the day of salvation, so why do so many people tell the Jews God is coming back to save them after a rapture, then God will deal with Israel during the tribulation ,
He has never stop dealing with them , but they must be saved just like anyone else by repenting and believing the gospel,
that Christ died and rose the third day , that he is the way, and only way.

Jesus made a new covenant by shedding his blood on the cross for Jew and gentile alike and as many that will believe in him no mattere what race .
It is a everlasting covenant , there will not
be another , and he will not turn back to a old covenant .

I believe all that Paul says. Why do you ask?This is the Church Age, and God is always desiring all men to come to Him for salvation in Jesus Christ. This Church Age will close and give rise to theTribulation Age...the time of Jacob's Trouble. Gid will then reckon with Israel and bring them around to the revelation of their Messiah to whom they have been blinded for 2000 years.