Giggles4God, thank you for being so honest and taking the time to have this conversation. Many would quickly become argumentative.
There are about 250-300 people on Sundays.
This sounds like a rather large fellowship. How many of these people do you actually know?
I don't know how many are asked to preach or teach. I only know that those who step up are fewer than those who are actually asked.
How often does anyone from your fellowship, who aren't a part of the official leadership, teach or preach? Do people have to ask to operate in these types of functions? Are they encouraged to do so? Or is it basically a situation where the pastor or only those approved by the pastor who are welcomed to operate in a sspeaking type ministry?
Also, in what do you mean by
those who step up are fewer than those who are actually asked? Are people ever asked or encouraged to step up and share what the Lord has been showing them in the Scriptures through a teaching or prophetic message, to operate in the gift of healing, or to possibly deliver a message in tongues for someone to interpret? Or are just talking about manual service along the lines of what a deacon would be responsible for?
I'm not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to gauge your fellowship dynamic.
I guess you go to a church that when the leadership calls for volunteers, there is a line at the sign up sheet?
I don't go to a church, per se. I gather with other believers and there is never a need for leadership to call for volunteers or a sign up sheet. When something needs to be done, it is naturally brought up and people simply step up. For instance, when someone needs a repair done in their home, someone with the experience simply steps up and offers help and the two parties discuss the details between themselves. Those who seem moved to offer these types of services are generally recognized as the deacons and are generally approached directly so that it never becomes an issue which must be publicly addressed. There are some people who are obviously more concerned with digging in the word and spending time in prayer and aren't generally sought after because it's obvious where their callings and giftings lie, though there is often overlap in each way.
If more people would do their God given talent and not horde it, do you think churches would have a hard time getting people to clean, teach, or preach?
No, I don't think there would. But it seems to me that most assemblies, especially those which take a more institutional approach only leave room for those talents or functions which fall in line with those who seek to be deacons in their assembly. But for those who are called to be pastors, teachers, prophets, and apostles there is very little, if any, room for these peoplpe to be used and grow in their callings. Only a lazy person would balk at being asked to sweep or put up chiars or anything like that. But at the same time these duties shouldn't be a prerequisite for people to be allowed tooperate in their giftings/callings, either.
So, you think the things that get done behind the scenes aren't as important as preaching or teaching?
Sometimes, but it really depends upon what's going on. I'm not advocating or promoting one function or member as more important than another. I'm simply asking why there are certain important ministries and operations which people aren't welcomed or encouraged to participate in. People are welcomed to clean the church, put away chairs, an such, but when it comes to other spiritual functions such as preaching, teaching, healing, etc... it's an operation which seems to be off limits, and therefore stifling the spiritual growth of a great many people.
If I am so bent on preaching, but don't see that there are things that need doing, too...like cleaning or sound ministry or whatever...does that mean that even though I want to preach, but I neglect the other things will God see me as willing to do the other things...instead of preaching?
I don't believ that it is a matter of being bent on anything. I would say that it is simply a matter of allowing eachindividual to be who the Lord has called them to be and allow them to operate accordingly. No one has said anything about anyone being unwilling to offer support in manual labor type fashion, though there are appropriate times for doing so. If someone isn't interested on waiting tables or cleaning up, would you say that they should be disqualified from participating in a fellowship as a teacher, prophet, pastor, healer, etc...? Wouldn't this mindset exclude and defy the aposles and the exmaples and words given to us in the Scripture?
Again, I ask...is preaching more important than cleaning?
It depends on the person and the circumstance, don't you think? Some peole are more suited for one or the other and it should be something which is facilitated rather than forced or coerced. Were the apostles too good to wait on tables, or were they justified for devoting themselves to teaching, and preaching? Is this only for official leadership but a principle applicable for all?
Please don't think that I don't agree that there are simply some people who are lazy, immature, and even false. But I'm not addressing them because they make themselves obvious. I'm speaking of those, and there are many, who are called to function and gifted in ways which aren't allowed to participate as the Lord has equipped them to do.
At the church I go to, we have Elders. An Elder or an Elder couple is over each ministry, but that doesn't mean the pastors don't know anything about those ministries. It means they don't have to oversee the ministries too closely.
In the Church that I know there are many people, some who are recognized as elders due to their spiritual maturity versus simply appointment, who who have their own ministry or callings along with each other individual person. There are some people, including amongst the elders, who are pastors. No one is over anyone else, but rather those who are more spiritually advanced in their walks help those who aren't as far along grow through encouragment and correction. Each person is responsible for their own ministry, yet is accountable to everyone for anything questionable. Those who operate in a teaching or prophetic fashion are questioned and critiqued as teachings or messages are delivered and are held accountable in the moment, but anyone, even strangers who visit with us, are allowed to share and be heard. It really allows room for phenomenal growth for everyone involved.
I believe that those who know what their gift is should use it, but there are many in the church that don't or won't use it. Some don't even know what their gift(s) are. There are some people who won't use their teaching gift if that means teaching the children, but they will if it means teaching adults. Like they get to choose where and when they teach. If God gave the gift, isn't it His choice when and where to use us, not us?
I, for the most part, agree with you. There are many who don't use what the Lord has given them and even don't know what they have. But this is where the elders are supposed to be stepping up and encouraging them to be used and learn about who they are in the Lord. When it comes to teaching, I'm sure that there are some who operate out of an attitude of arrogance, those who feel that it is beneath them to teach children rather than adults. But I would say that the vast majority if them are those who know what the grace in them entails. Some people are built to teach children while others aren't. When people are forced to operate in areas where they aren't equipped or called, then they step out of the grace which they have been given and operate out of their own strength. this always leads to negative results.
When and where we are used is a question which has many answers depending upon who one talks to. For instance a person with a Calvinist understanding would make God fully responsible for when, where, and if a person is used at all. For others, there are often circumstances which prevent a person being used in the ways in which they were designed. For instance, it could be a person or group of people who consciously or unsciciously hold back others from operating as the Lord would have them to due to various reasons.
I'd like to also add sometihng about myself to make things a little clear and to cut down on any assumptions which may cause others to sin. I was in leadership, an associate pastor, in a non-denominational assembly. I made it my business to be a part of the whole assemblies lives and knew all of them well enough to say that we were friends. I also knew which people were called and equipped to do what, for the most part. So I made it a habit open up the pulpit for anyone in the congregation to operate as they felt lead. It was simply amazing. But I ran into conflict with others in leadership for doing so. The opposition could never use the Scripture, nor the nature of God to refute what I was doing, but instead I was met with many carnal responses. It has really made me look at the way we do things in a totally different light.
Isn't part of our jobs to be encouraging and supporting others in their own callings and ministries so that they can grow, spread out, and do the same thing? How can we ever do that if we don't allow everyone to parrticipate and function as they are called and equipped to?
