Proper place of the Law

[agua]

Jas 3:1 NKJV My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.


It's worth considering how the biblical saints taught.


2Co_10:1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ—who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you.

....

Jas 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.

....

1Pe_3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

 

[jari]

Interestong scripture:

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.


Heb 8:10-11 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

 

[gdemoss]

It's worth considering how the biblical saints taught.

Are you addressing me specifically?

Interestong scripture:

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.


Heb 8:10-11 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

All scripture is interesting. Why do you bring these up?

 

[agua]

Are you addressing me specifically?

I'm addressing anyone who lays claim to being a teacher.

 

[gdemoss]

I'm addressing anyone who lays claim to being a teacher.

I covet the gift of teaching.

 

[jari]

All scripture is interesting. Why do you bring these up?

it's related to this topic.

God writes His law in our hearts. so then we dont have to read about laws from Bible. because we already know the law.. not the jewish law but Christ like mind
... so we have Godly laws of life known to us.

 

[gdemoss]

Interestong scripture:

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.


Heb 8:10-11 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

By bringing these two scriptures together are you suggesting that there is no need for teachers because everyone knows everything they need to know since God wrote his laws on there hearts and everyone knows him?

If not then please explain what you think they are saying that is relevant to what is being discussed so I may learn of you.

 

[agua]

it's related to this topic.

God writes His law in our hearts. so then we dont have to read about laws from Bible. because we already know the law.. not the jewish law but Christ like mind
... so we have Godly laws of life known to us.

God still appoints teachers.


1Co 12:27-29 NKJV Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. (28) And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. (29) Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?


and the scriptures are still a vital part of learning.

2Ti 3:16-17 NKJV All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, (17) that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


If you haven't / been taught of the scriptures quoting them would be impossible.

 

[JonahofAkron]

it's related to this topic.

God writes His law in our hearts. so then we dont have to read about laws from Bible. because we already know the law.. not the jewish law but Christ like mind
... so we have Godly laws of life known to us.

So when the New Covenant is discussed in the Hebrew writings, they automatically assumed a different set of 'laws' were being discussed?

 

[jari]

By bringing these two scriptures together are you suggesting that there is no need for teachers because everyone knows everything they need to know since God wrote his laws on there hearts and everyone knows him?

If not then please explain what you think they are saying that is relevant to what is being discussed so I may learn of you.

I was hoping you would tell me

But its certain we must therefore share some mutual understanding of God and His will if we have the same spirit.

God still appoints teachers.


1Co 12:27-29 NKJV Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. (28) And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. (29) Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?


and the scriptures are still a vital part of learning.

2Ti 3:16-17 NKJV All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, (17) that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


If you haven't / been taught of the scriptures quoting them would be impossible.

Excellent point agua I didnt mean to say that we shouldt have to read the bible.
The difference comes with the fact that we all share the faith.

So when the New Covenant is discussed in the Hebrew writings, they automatically assumed a different set of 'laws' were being discussed?

None of the jewish laws that have unnessary regulations but more of good will of God and the whole law is summed up to one commandment: Love.

 

[gdemoss]

I was hoping you would tell me

But its certain we must therefore share some mutual understanding of God and His will if we have the same spirit.

Those of us who have received the Holy Spirit and are the temple of the living God indeed do share the same spirit. That said, we are affected by the whole spiritual realm in which we wrestle with. We have to be careful that we are not receiving the message of the spirit of error even though God be in us. The bible tells us 'be ye not deceived'.

Yes we do need teachers and teaching is a gift of the Holy Spirit given unto those whom he wills. I covet the gift earnestly, praying fervently to God to give and to teach me that I may have to freely give to others. The Holy Spirit teaches from within (direct revelation) and without (through our brethren).

 

[jari]

Those of us who have received the Holy Spirit and are the temple of the living God indeed do share the same spirit. That said, we are affected by the whole spiritual realm in which we wrestle with. We have to be careful that we are not receiving the message of the spirit of error even though God be in us. The bible tells us 'be ye not deceived'.

Yes we do need teachers and teaching is a gift of the Holy Spirit given unto those whom he wills. I covet the gift earnestly, praying fervently to God to give and to teach me that I may have to freely give to others. The Holy Spirit teaches from within (direct revelation) and without (through our brethren).

1Jn 2:20-22 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. (21) I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. (22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23-25 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (24) Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (25) And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


I believe the spirit tells us what is the truth ,like that Jesus is our savior and so on.

 

[JonahofAkron]

None of the jewish laws that have unnessary regulations but more of good will of God and the whole law is summed up to one commandment: Love.

I don't remember reading there were 'unnecessary regulations' in Torah. Messiah sums up Torah into two statements, but that is not a retraction of the laws themselves. If you were asked to bake pecan pie and then told that the summation is 'delicious', how easily could you construct said pie without being given any instruction? This analogy speaks to the whole spiritualization of the life of Messiah and our life in Him.

 

[gdemoss]

1Jn 2:20-22 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. (21) I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. (22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn 2:23-25 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (24) Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (25) And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


I believe the spirit tells us what is the truth ,like that Jesus is our savior and so on.

The Holy Spirit tells us truth Jari, but other spirits mix the truth in with lies perverting the truth. We must cry out to God asking him to give us discernment of these spirits.

Be careful to keep things in context. It begins in Chapter 2 with verse 7 and continues for some time. Johns whole point of writing the letter was to debunk a heresy that you could continue in sin and be saved in the end. You point out where John says that they have an anointing from the Holy Spirit and 'know all things'. Really? Is he saying they know everything? Do they know the day and the hour upon which Jesus will return? I know that I have the anointing of the Holy Spirit and I am given revelation of the meaning of texts, so that I can edify others but I am limited in the things I am given. I must obey everything that is revealed as truth or I do not get anymore. Some say that 1 John is working to defeat Gnosticism but the bible never mentions it directly but only calls it the spirit of antichrist. Although Gnosticism would fall into the category of the spirit of antichrist, it isn't the totality of such. Any heresy that allows or encourages sin in a believers life assuring them that they will not die if the do is of antichrist. The spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience. And as we have said before, this isn't saying we can't or won't sin by ignorance or submit to sin through fear. But that we will not willfully continue in that which we know is sin.

The Holy Spirit definitely will teach you. You need not man. That is if you first have the spirit within you and second you are not dull of hearing his voice in the confusion of voices offered to you. Also one must be humble before him submitting to his leading without grieving him. He will guide you into all truth.

Finally, remember that the Holy Spirit has a specific function within the Church. He reminds the believer of what Jesus has said (the word of God). He convicts the world of sin, judgment and righteousness through the mouths of them that he resides in. He puts the seal of the Lord upon the believer marking them as Gods property to be claimed later. He gives gifts unto men for the purpose of edifying others. But ultimately he fulfills the promise of God to indwell those who separate themselves from the world unto him becoming holy. This is the direct result of believing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. People leave the kingdom of Satan and are translated into the kingdom of Gods dear son and therefore they receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide them on their journey home to God and his Christ.

Love in Spirit and Truth,

Gary

 

[jari]

Hi JonahofAkron

I don't remember reading there were 'unnecessary regulations' in Torah. Messiah sums up Torah into two statements, but that is not a retraction of the laws themselves. If you were asked to bake pecan pie and then told that the summation is 'delicious', how easily could you construct said pie without being given any instruction? This analogy speaks to the whole spiritualization of the life of Messiah and our life in Him.

There are many things that are not useful today. Like eating pig was forbidden.
I understand the analogy you made but other way too look at it, is that when you have love you don't need law because then you don't kill and steal, right.

 

[jari]

Finally, remember that the Holy Spirit has a specific function within the Church. He reminds the believer of what Jesus has said (the word of God). He convicts the world of sin, judgment and righteousness through the mouths of them that he resides in. He puts the seal of the Lord upon the believer marking them as Gods property to be claimed later. He gives gifts unto men for the purpose of edifying others. But ultimately he fulfills the promise of God to indwell those who separate themselves from the world unto him becoming holy. This is the direct result of believing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. People leave the kingdom of Satan and are translated into the kingdom of Gods dear son and therefore they receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide them on their journey home to God and his Christ.

Hi Gary,
I dont agree with this statement about Holy spirits functions. Can you back it up with scripture? and every born again has Holy spirit - permenately thats what I read..

God bless

 

[gdemoss]

Hi Gary,
I dont agree with this statement about Holy spirits functions. Can you back it up with scripture? and every born again has Holy spirit - permenately thats what I read..

God bless

Gladly Jari, It is good practice to ask as it is always possible to be deceived by Satan. Thanks for asking and causing me to exercise myself in this practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdemoss
Finally, remember that the Holy Spirit has a specific function within the Church.

He reminds the believer of what Jesus has said (the word of God).

Jon 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

He convicts the world of sin, judgment and righteousness through the mouths of them that he resides in.

Jon 16:8-10 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Read Acts chapter 2 and 7 to see an awesome display of this in Peter and Stephen both filled with the Holy Spirit while they spoke convicting the hearers.

He puts the seal of the Lord upon the believer marking them as Gods property to be claimed later.

2Cr 1:22 , Eph 1:13 , Eph 4:30

He gives gifts unto men for the purpose of edifying others.

1 Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

The manifestation here is the gift itself. You have the Holy Spirit but he is not always manifesting himself through you. He gives the gift of teaching to those he wills. It is manifested in the teaching itself.


But ultimately he fulfills the promise of God to indwell those who separate themselves from the world unto him becoming holy.

O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

This is the direct result of believing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. People leave the kingdom of Satan and are translated into the kingdom of Gods dear son and therefore they receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide them on their journey home to God and his Christ.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 2 Peter 1:2-4

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: Col 1:13

I hope this makes clear my understanding,

Gary

 

[jari]

Hi Gary

Jon 16:8-10 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

When we read the reasons for judgment, righteousness and sin are "reproved" it makes more sense and is more valid statement than just saying Holy spirit convicts these three things.

i hope you see my point, I think what Bible actually said here is very different from what you said ... Perhaps you meant the same but still i can only agree with scripture and not with paraphrases. Because I dont think its the same at all anymore and not the truth anymore. If we use paraphrase on such topics...

This is the direct result of believing the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. People leave the kingdom of Satan and are translated into the kingdom of Gods dear son and therefore they receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide them on their journey home to God and his Christ.

I don't agree here. I believe we have already come to close to God is Jesus blood and not that were are being translated.

These verses you posted say we already have been and thats how I take them... Even we could wonder if its true in ourcase it still is.
2 Peter 1:2-4
Col 1:13

Because salvation is instant and we have become near in Jesus blood.
And even we are still on this world we still belong to Christ.

Good verses in all and good topic but we see it different way...

God bless

 

[JonahofAkron]

Hi JonahofAkron


There are many things that are not useful today. Like eating pig was forbidden.
I understand the analogy you made but other way too look at it, is that when you have love you don't need law because then you don't kill and steal, right.

There was love in the Torah. I don't understand why an antithesis is necessary. It seems silly to make a claim to not needing law when there is no such claim by Messiah.

 

[jari]

Hi JonahofAkron

There was love in the Torah. I don't understand why an antithesis is necessary. It seems silly to make a claim to not needing law when there is no such claim by Messiah.

I wasnt saying there no need for law. But law is only put for lawbreaker. And If we are carried by spirit we are not under law. Because the spirit it self is lawful....
but this topic was really about law written in our hearts so we know right and wrongs without looking into torah.


Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Let me make another example why I think we need the nessary law written in our hearts, the pharisees did well on tithin, Jesus says, but they did not do Mercy and justice.

Mat 23:23-24 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
(24) Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

So if we look into the law maybe we start doing things of less priority and forgetting what the law was about... Love...
And of course like i said earlier forbidding eating Pork isnt nessary law for us.

So what does it mean God wrote His law in our hearts?

I think it means the Holy spirit was given us so that we'd have his law directly in our hearts via the Holy spirit.