Pretrib Poll

[Twistie]

What you are saying is a mockery, I sense a fair amount of self righteousness in your comment here.

The truth is, you can believe in pretrib, midtrib, and posttrib, and be fearful of persecution, so then does someone base his beliefs based on the reaction of others ?

Because if that is the case, then that is going by sensuality, rather than believing what it says.

If the bible says this:

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then believe that.

And if the bible says this:

Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

So if it says that you can pray and one day escape all the events that shall come to pass, and be able to stand before the son of man, then believe that.

And if the bible says this:

Rev 3:10-11
(10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(11) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

If it says that you can be kept from the hour of temptation that shall come upon the whole world, then believe that.

And if the bible says this:

2Ti 3:12
(12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

So it says that all who live godly shall suffer persecution, which means in some shape or form, in Christ, as we live godly, we shall face some type of persecution, opposition etc.

Whatever the opposition we face, whether verbally, physical, or even unto death, it is a form of persecution.

There is no merits in persecution, just like there is no merits in any thing, for we are saved by grace through faith, but whatever you face, stand strong in him, even unto death.

So God's word has to be rightly believed and rightly received, because if we do not go by all of scripture, and seek to believe all of it, and base our beliefs on people's reactions, that is not truly believing the whole counsel of the word.

We need to allow all of scripture to conform our thoughts to the way God thinks.

Smh anyone who doesn't get mocked and is loved by the World is not of Him.

That's simple

Self righteous lol it's all written

Man complicates Him..

ᕙ⁠[⁠･⁠۝･⁠]⁠ᕗ

 

[Gerbolski]

Smh anyone who doesn't get mocked and is loved by the World is not of Him.

That's simple

Self righteous lol it's all written

Man complicates Him..

ᕙ⁠[⁠･⁠۝･⁠]⁠ᕗ

Wow you have no clue what I have jus said to you, have I been rejected by the world, yep, have I even been kicked out of an assembly for standing for truth, yes.

You are so caught up into your thoughts, that you cannot see what I am saying to you.

But if you want to glory in your boastings that is you, see what it does for you.

And have you not read the verse that I mentioned which says this:

2Ti 3:12
(12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 

[Gerbolski]

Smh anyone who doesn't get mocked and is loved by the World is not of Him.

That's simple

Self righteous lol it's all written

Man complicates Him..

ᕙ⁠[⁠･⁠۝･⁠]⁠ᕗ

In putting all your comments together, in what I said, you are implying that people who believe in the pretrib, do not believe in going through persecution, which is false, and yes if the world loves you the love of God is not in you, but this has nothing to do with pre-trib.

 

[Twistie]

In putting all your comments together, in what I said, you are implying that people who believe in the pretrib, do not believe in going through persecution, which is false, and yes if the world loves you the love of God is not in you, but this has nothing to do with pre-trib.

Pretrib that's when one thinks they will not be persecuted because they will fly in the air? Or something like that right?

If that's so it's not biblical it's written

And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

And white robes were given unto every one of them, and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants and also their brethren, who were to be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Seems man like to try to run from suffering or think if one works enough makes enough money it will decrease their suffering..

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I've told my son time n time again it's the job of the world to harden your heart so that you can not see the Truth.. guard your heart and your peace..

ᕙ⁠[⁠･⁠۝･⁠]⁠ᕗ

 

[Gerbolski]

Pretrib that's when one thinks they will not be persecuted because they will fly in the air? Or something like that right?

If that's so it's not biblical it's written

And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

And white robes were given unto every one of them, and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants and also their brethren, who were to be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Seems man like to try to run from suffering or think if one works enough makes enough money it will decrease their suffering..

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I've told my son time n time again it's the job of the world to harden your heart so that you can not see the Truth.. guard your heart and your peace..

ᕙ⁠[⁠･⁠۝･⁠]⁠ᕗ

Oh well I guess we will have to leave it at that, you are obviously ignoring what I am fully saying, and ignoring the rapture verses I gave, you are stuck on just a few verses and cannot accept the other ones.

And I personally have confessed that the godly get persecuted, but you are ignoring that also.

Maybe you should read what the works of the flesh actually are.

 

[Twistie]

Oh well I guess we will have to leave it at that, you are obviously ignoring what I am fully saying, and ignoring the rapture verses I gave, you are stuck on just a few verses and cannot accept the other ones.

And I personally have confessed that the godly get persecuted, but you are ignoring that also.

Maybe you should read what the works of the flesh actually are.

Where is that's says that His children will not be persecuted?

Or course His children are gonna be drawn to Him when He appears.. that's just a given wouldn't you say??

N what does works of flesh gotta do with pre trib..

All I'm saying if one thinks they can escape this world without suffering they have been greatly deceived..

(⁠´⁠ε⁠｀⁠ ⁠)

 

[Gerbolski]

I said I would leave it at that which was said towards Twistie, because things were going nowhere, and a spirit of understanding did not seem to be there.

I have changed my mind a little, but will seek to post on this thread, more in general, or via other people.

When we live a godly life down here, the bible says this:

2Ti 3:12
(12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

God also says this:

Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

God does not say things for no reason, if he says you can pray to be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, he means it, and it will happen.

So now the question is what are all these things that shall come to pas ? Well it is talking about things that was previously mentioned that will take place.

What are these things that will take place ?

Well here are some samples:

Luk 21:10-11
(10) Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
(11) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

So we shall escape these specific earthquakes, famines, of being in the midst of certain nations rising against certain nations and so forth.

But what else happens?

Luk 21:16-17
(16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
(17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

It says that we shall escape all of theses things that happen and not some of these things.

And one of the things that happen is that there will be a specific persecution that will take place, during these times, and we can escape this.

Now how do we escape all of these things ?


Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

By standing before the Son of man, it does not say by dying for your faith in this instance, but rather by standing before the son of man, otherwise, the verse that says we shall escape all these things that shall happen, which includes persecution and dying for your faith, is a lie, which of course it is not.

What happens at the rapture, we get caught up in the air, and meet him there, therefore us standing before him, and that is sound doctrine, with no contradictions.

The word church does not appear in the time of the tribulation period, but that does not mean people will not be saved, and get martyred.

So while on earth, if you live godly, you will face persecution, but if God one day raptures us, which he will, then in heaven we will not face persecution, for there is no persecution in heaven, but we will evade God's time of wrath on the world, and also the persecution on earth of that time, and why will we evade that specific persecution on earth ? Because we will be in heaven, there is nothing sinful about that, if God wants to do this, that is his prerogative.

 

[Gerbolski]

Two types of gatherings

The rapture 1Th 4:16-17 (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The second coming Mar 13:26-27 (26) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. (27) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

In the rapture, both the dead in Christ and the alive meet him in the air, and what happens as a result ?

Joh 14:2-3
(2) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
(3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Well here it is speaking of him coming again, and when he does, he receives them unto himself, that were he is, which speaks of the place that he goes and prepares a place for us, which is heaven, there we may be also.

That is what happens at the rapture.

But concerning the second coming, it is not meeting him in the air thus disappearing from earth, for nowhere does it say this in our Mark verses, but rather it is when Christ comes down and eyes begin to see him on earth, the angels gather the saints in Heaven to come down with him, but the angels also gather the ones left on earth to go meet the Lord in Jerusalem, which he will put his feet on the mount of olives.

Zec 14:3-4
(3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
(4) And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Rev 19:11-14
(11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
(12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
(14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Isa 66:18
(18) For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

 

[Curtis]

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

The word "power" in verse 19 means "authority". Authority is useless if there is no power to back it up.

The "restrainer" is not the Holy Spirit, but he is connected to the "restrainer"

Who did Jesus give power to over all the power of our enemy? His Church!!!! The Church is the restrainer, and as long as the restrainer is on this earth, then the man of sin, "the antichrist," can not be revealed.

The Holy Spirit not only leads and guides the Church he is also the "power" behind man "authority that restrains what man binds on earth.

 

[Gerbolski]

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

The word "power" in verse 19 means "authority". Authority is useless if there is no power to back it up.

The "restrainer" is not the Holy Spirit, but he is connected to the "restrainer"

Who did Jesus give power to over all the power of our enemy? His Church!!!! The Church is the restrainer, and as long as the restrainer is on this earth, then the man of sin, "the antichrist," can not be revealed.

The Holy Spirit not only leads and guides the Church he is also the "power" behind man "authority that restrains what man binds on earth.

Hi Curtis, I think you might have accidentally posted your restrainer comment in the wrong thread, was it your intention to post it in the "Who is the restrainer " thread ?

 

[Gerbolski]

Curtis, I will respond to you in that thread.

Love ya in Christ.

 

[Curtis]

Hi Curtis, I think you might have accidentally posted your restrainer comment in the wrong thread, was it your intention to post it in the "Who is the restrainer " thread ?

Yep, I should have been a little bit more attentive before I pushed the send button.

 

[Gerbolski]

Tribulation saints, the two witnesses and Israel

I do not want to be too strong in the way I say things here, but there is an argument that says that the people who go into the tribulation period, were made up of already saved and unsaved people.

Now if the pretrib rapture is true, which I believe it is, and the church is gone before the tribulation period, then all the ones who are left behind, are unbelievers.

Now will there people getting saved in the tribulation period, yes.

The argument is, is that some say there is no evidence of people getting saved in the tribulation period, the people who get martyred at that time were already saved, even before the tribulation period.

But is that true ?

Now before we get into that, let us first establish the fact of, will there be saints during that time ?

Rev 13:7
(7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Well obviously there will be.

But is there something that will take place at the beginning of the tribulation period, which could bring people to Christ, in order for there being saints, in the tribulation period ?

Yes.

Zec 4:11-14 (11) Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? (12) And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? (13) And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. (14) Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Rev 11:3-4 (3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (4) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

It says in Zechariah's time, that these two anointed ones were standing by the Lord of the earth, and in Old testament times, there are only 2 who were brought alive, up to Heaven, and that was Enoch and Elijah, which can be said to be standing before the God of the earth even today.

At the beginning of the tribulation period, God will send these two to earth, and they shall prophesy, or testify as another verse says, for 3 1/2 years.

So people will hear the gospel through them, and will be able to make a decision for him, whatever point of the tribulation they get saved.

Now is there proof that Elijah will come back in the future ?

Mal 3:1 (1) Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. Mal 4:5-6 (5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Mat 17:11-13 (11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. (12) But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. (13) Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. Luk 3:4 (4) As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

The verses in Malachi are 2 fold, pointing in a figurative way to John the Baptist, but also pointing in a litteral way to Elijah.

Then we get to Matthew 17:11 which Jesus is saying Elijah truly shall first come, which speaks of the real Elijah, and he shall restore all things, which I believe also means restoring people to Christ.

Then in verse 12, in saying Elijah is already come speaks of John the Baptist.

The one crying in the wilderness does speak of John the Baptist, but also Elijah shall be used in a similar manner in preparing the way of the Lord, by restoring people to Christ, which will prepare the ones who survive, for the second coming of Christ.

John prepared people's hearts so to meet the Lord, and so will Elijah.

And also concerning people getting saved, the bible says this:

Rom 11:26-27
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Here it speaks of the nation of Israel finally getting saved, at the end of the tribulation period, which is when the Deliverer comes out of Sion, so to take away their sins.