Points to Ponder, p 1, the Chicken or the Egg.

[Bill]

Holidays!
I hear it so often that people say I'm not going to celebrate Christmas because it is a pagan day. Or you hear I'm not going to celebrate Easter because it is a pagan day. Or you might also hear I'm not going to celebrate Halloween because it is a pagan day.

I find the whole thing kind of amusing actually, because since when did the pagans create these days. If a pagan actually created a day then yes they could claim it as their own much like the alphabet Community claims the month of June in America. However the truth is is that God created the days of the week, the month, the year.

So in my view when we celebrate days for a good harvest or a celebrate Days of Christmas Halloween Easter what we are doing is celebrating the days that God has made.

I think it is good that we celebrate the birth of our Lord, the death on the cross what he did for us, the resurrection of Jesus, and if people want to celebrate those who have died before us Halloween. Because Halloween is the eve of All Saints Day in the Catholic Church, and All Saints being those who have gone on before us into Paradise.

We do celebrate birthdays true?

 

[complete]

' Howbeit then, when ye knew not God,
ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,
how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.'
(Gal 4:8)

Hello @Bill,

I have had children and grandchildren, and have therefore celebrated Christmas and Easter etc., so I am not in a position to stand in judgment on anyone, but I do wish that these celebrations did not take place, and not just because they have become so very commercialised. They are not of God, they are of man's devising.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Bill]

' Howbeit then, when ye knew not God,
ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God,
how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,
whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.'
(Gal 4:8)

Hello @Bill,

I have had children and grandchildren, and have therefore celebrated Christmas and Easter etc., so I am not in a position to stand in judgment on anyone, but I do wish that these celebrations did not take place, and not just because they have become so very commercialised. They are not of God, they are of man's devising.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Why would you say they are not of God? Do you celebrate your anniversary?

 

[complete]

'But the hour cometh, and now is,
when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:
for the Father seeketh such to worship Him.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him
must worship Him in spirit and in truth.'
(Joh 4:23-24)

Hello @Bill,

When reading the Old Testament, and the instructions God gave to His servants, whether it was in regard to building the tabernacle, and the ornamentation of such, all was very precise and ordered, wasn't it. Nothing was open to human interpretation or innovation, all was according to the will of God. The robes of the Priests and so on, were again, to God's design. He told His People what days were to be kept, and what sacrifices were acceptable, all was of God, nothing of man.

Therefore I do not believe it is for us to impose our own understanding upon the keeping of days, or in regard to worship or anything pertaining to our relationship with God.

I hope you understand my thinking, even if you do not agree.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Brad Huber]

I think that the Catholic church did right in making christian days of festivities that coincided with pagan holidays. Most people are indeed like sheep and will join a celebration for the food, drink, and a festive gathering. Giving them a festive day to do so will give them less of a reason to go to the pagan celebration. Even Paul when he got to greece, found the pagan statue of the unknown God, and claimed it for the Christian faith, "even though" it was installed initially for pagan purposes.

 

[Br. Bear]

I think that the Catholic church did right in making christian days of festivities that coincided with pagan holidays. Most people are indeed like sheep and will join a celebration for the food, drink, and a festive gathering. Giving them a festive day to do so will give them less of a reason to go to the pagan celebration. Even Paul when he got to greece, found the pagan statue of the unknown God, and claimed it for the Christian faith, "even though" it was installed initially for pagan purposes.

some points to ponder, Brad @Brad Huber

I am reminded of three chaps bringing presents/gifts to the baby Jesus. Would one be forgiven in thinking that doing such was equivalent to giving birthday presents/gifts?


Bless you ....><>

ps... @Bill
I am interested in the reason for the title, including the chicken and the egg. Would there be a Biblical equivalent?
Also, interested in p 2 ....><>

 

[complete]

I think that the Catholic church did right in making christian days of festivities that coincided with pagan holidays. Most people are indeed like sheep and will join a celebration for the food, drink, and a festive gathering. Giving them a festive day to do so will give them less of a reason to go to the pagan celebration. Even Paul when he got to greece, found the pagan statue of the unknown God, and claimed it for the Christian faith, "even though" it was installed initially for pagan purposes.

'All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient:
all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go;
whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols,
eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake:
for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other:
for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
For if I by grace be a partaker,
why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do,
do all to the glory of God.'
(1Cor. 10:23-31)

Hello @Brad Huber:

When I read your entry, my mind went to the verses above, for though it relates to food and drink, it does relate also to the attendance of a feast, at which food served could have been previously offered in sacrifice unto idols. The portion I have underlined (above) shows Paul's attitude to this. Attending posed no problem for him, but only in relation to the effect it may have upon a weaker brother in Christ.

* The pagan festival at the end of the year, was built up to, and experienced, from the end of harvest onward, culminating in a feast, and was a giving of thanks for what the earth had brought forth. Attending the feast that accompanied it, would have injured no one.

The introduction of a celebration of the birth of Christ, at that time, when it did not coincide with the date it took place, doesn't seem good to me. I have read that it was actually the marking of Christ's conception and not His birth, and that may be so, but I see it as possibly having a blinding effect upon those who were looking for the coming of the Christ, especially to a Jew, for it would not coincide with the times and seasons prophetically,

(Brad, these are my thoughts, and may not have any value whatsoever, but I offer them as thoughts only, for you to consider).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Bill]

some points to ponder, Brad @Brad Huber

I am reminded of three chaps bringing presents/gifts to the baby Jesus. Would one be forgiven in thinking that doing such was equivalent to giving birthday presents/gifts?


Bless you ....><>

ps... @Bill
I am interested in the reason for the title, including the chicken and the egg. Would there be a Biblical equivalent?
Also, interested in p 2 ....><>

The concept of the Chicken and the Egg came to my mind when the Lord was asking me to start up the series of Points to Ponder.

In understanding how God has created these days and then the pagans came and acquired them to themselves and then the Christians in return, I.E Catholics and others have reclaimed them.

And nowadays some Christians think of them more as pagan holidays or even Catholic holidays. And because of this will not accept them either.

No I don't have a problem with Protestants having issues with Catholics, because I know it's gone on for years and the whole thing is rather absurd in my opinion. Because if we look at the origins we were once brothers and sisters and now because of whatever it was that caused the break in the first place back in the 1500s people forget that we were brothers and sisters.

Things like Christmas and Easter, along with All Saints Day were established well before the breakup of the church. And I don't see any problem with celebrating the birth of Jesus whether it's accurate or not. Or celebrating the death on the cross which saved us all in the first place. Or celebrating the resurrection, and so on. Can't we celebrate our God in peace? The very God that created the days in the first place.

 

[Brad Huber]

'All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient:
all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth.
Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go;
whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols,
eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake:
for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other:
for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
For if I by grace be a partaker,
why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do,
do all to the glory of God.'
(1Cor. 10:23-31)

Hello @Brad Huber:

When I read your entry, my mind went to the verses above, for though it relates to food and drink, it does relate also to the attendance of a feast, at which food served could have been previously offered in sacrifice unto idols. The portion I have underlined (above) shows Paul's attitude to this. Attending posed no problem for him, but only in relation to the effect it may have upon a weaker brother in Christ.

* The pagan festival at the end of the year, was built up to, and experienced, from the end of harvest onward, culminating in a feast, and was a giving of thanks for what the earth had brought forth. Attending the feast that accompanied it, would have injured no one.

The introduction of a celebration of the birth of Christ, at that time, when it did not coincide with the date it took place, doesn't seem good to me. I have read that it was actually the marking of Christ's conception and not His birth, and that may be so, but I see it as possibly having a blinding effect upon those who were looking for the coming of the Christ, especially to a Jew, for it would not coincide with the times and seasons prophetically,

(Brad, these are my thoughts, and may not have any value whatsoever, but I offer them as thoughts only, for you to consider).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thanks for your reply. Saying it doesnt seem good to you seems odd. No facts supporting your evaluation of whats good and evil, and you didnt mention that you felt led by the Holy Spirit that its wrong. Ever sinse we (humans) ate the forbidden fruit in the garden, we gained the ability to know good from evil, but obviously that knowledge is very flawed in us (all of us), and we often get it wrong. I respect your decision to call it "not good" (bad), but I cant agree with you, and no one has given me good reason to call it bad myself. As to the scripture that everything is permissable but not expedient, I find that many people who find fault with it only do so on online forums like this, and I know of no one personally that would take offense and fall into sin due to it. I do not doubt that there are those who would, but I cannot live my life and my dietary choices based on people online who I will never even interact with in person to where the diet would possibly affect the others badly.

 

[Brad Huber]

some points to ponder, Brad @Brad Huber

I am reminded of three chaps bringing presents/gifts to the baby Jesus. Would one be forgiven in thinking that doing such was equivalent to giving birthday presents/gifts?


Bless you ....><>

ps... @Bill
I am interested in the reason for the title, including the chicken and the egg. Would there be a Biblical equivalent?
Also, interested in p 2 ....><>

I sincerely doubt God would find any fault with those chaps bringing presents.