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Discussion in 'Water Cooler' started by Sue J Love, Dec 1, 2017.
I like that! That made me smile.
Looks like you'd be a Loyal Oddball, Sue.
Bless you ....><>
The United States is not our government, it is its people. Can you believe there is some good in its people?
I am glad to see the Lord working in the lives of some of His saints to not follow the crowd but prove everything by Him as well as abstain from all appearances of evil as we can only follow Him by faith in Jesus Christ & by the grace of God too.
I am not for pledging allegiance when Christ has set me free from all yokes of bondage, just as I am not for keeping a commitment to follow Christ when I am relying on Jesus Christ as the power for following Him.
I am not for representing a church when the church is supposed to be representing Jesus Christ and nothing else in His name; therefore I rely on Him as my Good Shepherd in helping me to serve Him by being a witness of Him in seeking His glory.
I am not for pagan holidays, but if pagans made a holiday for every day of the year, where would our witness be in the world? We can honor the Lord on any day and celebrate the Lord on any day. I rely on the Lord to help me be a witness of Him above all the pagan distractions of any pagan holiday.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Bless you ....><>
Jesus did not.
John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
But we are called to respect the government for this reason below.
Romans 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
That does not require pledging an allegiance nor any such loyalty to the USA when the Bridegroom can come at any moment from which we cannot be committed to anything in this life so as to be free to go.
Brad, how are you relating your comment/question to the O.P.? I am not understanding.
Regarding the USA, it is a nation of people who are under the control/authority of a government, which I believe is a global government of the Elite (wealthy & powerful) of this world, and that what we consider our government leaders to be is a facade, for they are mere puppets in the hands of the Elite. So, the people of this nation have no real say in what goes on within the government of this nation. But, we can effect what goes on within our nation, among the people, by how we treat other people, by our own beliefs and practices, and by sharing the gospel of salvation with others so that they, too, can believe in Jesus Christ.
Since there are Christians in this nation, then there is good in people, namely Jesus Christ. Yet, I believe that there are many good-hearted people who do good to others among those who make no profession of faith in Jesus Christ.
Now, how does this relate to the O.P.? And, does this answer your question?
I am not understanding this sentence. Could you please elaborate? Thanks!
Yes, there is a huge difference between being subject to our leaders/rulers, with biblical exceptions, and bowing to or worshiping a government, which in this case is of "the beast." The only ones to whom we should vow (pledge) our fidelity (allegiance) is to our spouses and to God, God being first and foremost.
Yes, God knows what is in mankind. We are all born sinners. "Good" as defined by God is God, so God living within us is good in us. "Good", with regard to acts of kindness towards others can be committed by believers or non-believers, in fact, many non-believers often act more with kindness towards others than do many believers, at times. They are still lost in their sins, and they don't have God living within them, but God did create them, and thus they are capable of doing "good" to others even outside of faith in Jesus Christ. At least, this has been my observation.
Not even in that.
#1. Marriage Covenant is what God performs. There should only be "I do" in taking the other as the spouse. That is the same as saying yes in an agreement without adding extra vows and such.
Since love is not boastful, there should be no vows nor promises of love when we are to rely on Him to provide us the love and all the other fruits of the Spirit as we lean on Him all the time for a good marriage.
#2. We cannot finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit. Either we follow Him by faith as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him by the grace of God or we are testifying of our selves in how good we are by keeping a commitment to follow Him which is in itself is a false witness ( John 5:31 ) since we cannot testify of our selves les we be seeking our own glory by showing off to others in how we are following Jesus by keeping that commitment or promise to do so ( John 7:18 )..
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
The believer's commitment speaks of the believer and it is to the glory of the believer in keeping that commitment. This is after the religious rudiment that is being practiced in other religions of the world, including self help programs like Alcoholic Anonymous, and Narcotics Anonymous. The credit goes to the commitment keeper. This is an example of worshiping Him in vain teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
The Lord has set me free from all unnecessary vain yokes of bondages so I can rest in Him and His "commitment" to me as that is what it means to live by faith in Jesus Christ and all His promises to us as my confidence rests in Him to finish.
Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
God knows what is in the flesh of religious christians too; nothing good. No matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. I must decrease if He is to increase ( John 6:28-30 )
John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
We cannot bear witness of ourselves and of Christ. We need His help in being a true witness by seeking His glory by testifying of Him. We can testify of what we, or mankind cannot do, to show the glory of what Jesus Christ has done and can do for helping saved believers to follow Him by faith in Him and His promises to us alone.
That is why little children can freely come to Him because all they can do is put their trust in the Lord in taking Him at His word.
I have found that He wants me to rest in Him for following Him and not by religiously keeping my commitment to do so. I rely on Him all the time for following Him by the grace of God.
Therefore I testify of my faith in Him for following Him rather than be a hypocrite in speaking of keeping my commitment in making Him Lord of my life whenever I sin, because by that commitment to follow Christ is the knowledge of sin, as well as the sin of breaking that commitment to follow Him.
I had worked with a woman one time that believed she had to clean up her life before coming to the Lord. I had told her that is what Jesus Christ came to do; to save us from our sins. It was a day later that she told me that I was right and she came to believed in the Lord to be saved.
If you think about it; a sinner will be honest with himself or herself when confronted with that religious altar call to come forward to make a commitment to follow Christ to be saved, because they know how much sin has dominion over their lives. They cannot see it in themselves to make such a commitment when sin has been ruining their lives against their will.
Nowhere in the N.T. did Jesus call for a commitment nor a promise to follow Him. Instead, He said that if any one would come after Him, he is to deny Himself as being religiously able to, take up His cross daily in crucifying yourself in that it is not you who live but Christ in you, is how any one can follow Him by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to do this.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
If we could not save ourselves and we had to surrender to call on Him to be saved by the grace of God, the same will be required for any hope in following Him as His disciple by surrendering all religious striving to rest in Him to help us to follow Him.
That is how we can get to know Him & the power of His resurrection as well as being a true witness when we declare all our hopes in the Lord so that sinners may hope in Him to be saved as well as helping them lay aside every weight & sin so they can follow Him by that same grace of God.
Its hard for people to understand due to all the corruption at the political office level. Ours is a govt by the people, of the people, and for the people still to some greater degree. No matter how powerful and corrupt those people become (and they mostly are), even the lowliest of people can be a representative of the people, elected by people (mostly except for cheater votes etc), and still have to do things to help the people, serving the people to large degree. It is the people itself that has become evil, not caring how corrupt our govt becomes as long as they get their freebies or cushy govt jobs. Its the people who are honest that refuse to get involved because they see themselves as above it all, and dont want the responsibility, that allow it also to get worse every year. Our govt knows that no matter how powerful they become, they still must try and keep their evil deeds in the darkness, because the "people" can revolt and we have lots of guns, and the govt depends on our tax dollars. Ancient Israel was just as bad if not worse, and God was long suffering with her. Elijah was ready to give up on his government and didnt care if God destroyed it all, he thought he was the last person who loved God left, and God let him know how wrong he was.
I am saying that when we say the government is evil, we should be saying the people of America are evil, but people all over the world are just as evil, its rampant, the US is no better or worse than others, just more wealthy, perhaps sneakier than some, a stronger military than most. God judges both people and nations, who are we to say one evil is greater than others and set up ourselves as judges over what God, not us, should be judging. Understand?