perfect?

[KingJ]

Hmmm... you may be right, but I wonder...

I still think perfect means... ummm... well, perfect.

Perfect to God is not always what we would consider perfect.

Example on a spouse (as this is directed at us being a perfect spouse) - A spouse is 'never' perfect. If I think of a perfect spouse I think of a slave who slaves for no payment. Not having their own life to live. Like a Stepford wife. That is not God's idea of a perfect spouse. Love is at the core of perfection with God. God loves, we love, neither expect Stepford wife type perfection.

1 Cor 13:1-3 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

We could just as easily add ''If I do no curse and have applied myself every second of the day to not thinking immoral thoughts, but have not love, I have nothing''.

We should not be sin focused we should be focused on our love for Jesus. We should judge ourselves, compare ourselves, evaluate our ''perfection'' against the following scripture:

1 Cor 13 :4-8 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails.

I don't think there is anything wrong with lions eating lambs, wolves eating deer, and men eating beef.

99.99% of people on earth will be upset and not call wild dogs killing a buck, perfect. You and I will, because we can see the bigger picture. Now, lets do that on heaven.

If so... why does there need to be a new earth and new heavens?

God is perfect. Everything God does is perfect. We must not get stuck on assigning our idea of perfect to God's. We are making ourselves come unstuck. This is why the 'perfect' mentioned in the OP has to do with change. A final state.

New heavens are new heavens. Not heavens now falling within the parameters of our definition of perfect. Will my wife make me a hourly ham sandwich in heaven? Will I have 100 virgins?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

looking at what Curtis presented I would like to add to this discussion a thought or two.

The Apostle Paul tells us exactly what the "perfect" is in next verse......

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

It is as always spiritual growth going from a "child" to a full grown "man". (maturity)
A "perfect" man is a "mature man".

I was considering Jesus as a Child.
We know He was* the Son of God. One ought to be OK with the suggestion that He was* God's child?
Taking that as the case for this line of thought,

Jesus was/is perfect.
therefore,
Jesus was* a perfect child, because

1. He was God's Child?
2. He was perfect in all He did as a child?
3. Because that is the way God looks at children especially His own.
4. Because God made Him perfect?

Bless you ....><>

*was/is (talking as 'was' because the reference is 'child' but one's child is always one's child so 'is' may be substituted there if it makes you more comfortable)
-----------------------------------
P.S. a husbandless spouse is hardly a perfect spouse?

 

[Curtis]

From your use of this scripture, we can tell you do believe Paul was perfect, as he was no child.

Paul grew as a Christian just like every one else does. No one is a born a full grown man. Even Jesus grew in wisdom, and stature.

 

[At Peace]

Paul grew as a Christian just like every one else does. No one is a born a full grown man. Even Jesus grew in wisdom, and stature.

He sure did, but from the start he was "born of God's seed".
All Christians will grow in grace and knowledge, but they will never revert to the Adamic seed they are no longer tied to.

 

[B-A-C]

He sure did, but from the start he was "born of God's seed".
All Christians will grow in grace and knowledge, but they will never revert to the Adamic seed they are no longer tied to.

And yet the Bible says over and over again they do. Who should we believe? You or the Bible?

Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Luke 17:3; "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

1 Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1 Cor 3:2; I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
1 Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

In fact this verse could apply to you... wounding other's consciences.

1 Cor 8:12; And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

You need to quit building a doctrine on one verse when several other verses disagree with it.

Matt 6:12; 'And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgiven those who sin against us.

 

[At Peace]

And yet the Bible says over and over again they do. Who should we believe? You or the Bible?
Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Luke 17:3; "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
1 Cor 3:1; And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.
1 Cor 3:2; I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,
1 Cor 3:3; for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?
In fact this verse could apply to you... wounding other's consciences.
1 Cor 8:12; And so, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
You need to quit building a doctrine on one verse when several other verses disagree with it.
Matt 6:12; 'And forgive us our sins, as we also have forgiven those who sin against us.

You accredit false Christians with the holy name of the Son of God.
If I tell you I am an accountant, but I can neither add nor subtract, am I really an accountant?