Paul taught OSAS

[Gerbolski]

A truly repentfull heart, seeks to turn away from sin, a fake repentance, just seeks to get the benefits without turning away from sin, which is not true repentance, which does not bring you into salvation.

 

[Gerbolski]

Joh 3:3-5
(3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, nor can he enter it.

And the kingdom of God does refer to heaven, but also to kingdom living, wherein the kingdom of God is within us.

Wherein God's salvation provision, and all that it entails, is working in us, and through us.

 

[Gerbolski]

And no, when I says kingdom living, I am not referring to the kingdom now doctrine or any of the prosperity gospel , which I do not believe in.

 

[Gerbolski]

He looketh upon the heart

Does God look upon the heart ???

1Sa 16:7
(7) But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

It also says this about the heart:

1Ti 1:5
(5) Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Pro 26:23
(23) Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross.

 

[Gerbolski]

I know that in the OSAS camp, they say you cannot go from the state of salvation, to a state of no longer being saved.

Well we went from a state of not being saved, to a state of being saved ???????

 

[KingJ]

@Gerbolski

Whilst I appreciate your efforted replies, I just can't keep running in circles with you guys.

I have made very simple and logical points. If you cannot give a direct answer, I just don't know how to communicate with you.

---------------

In post # 39, you attempted a rebuttal at accusation 1. You conceded to the fact that God can properly vet a heart and then you state you have no clue what my point is???? That is the point. If God can properly vet a heart then God can properly vet a heart. He does not make the mistake of washing clean in His blood a Judas that would later betray Him....really not hard....

 

[B-A-C]

Is this too much to ask?

I think the problem here is... you equate logic with truth. They are not always the same thing.
We don't have to "out logic" Satan... we just have to "out truth" him.

Just because A and B are true... doesn't always mean C is true.

We can talk about whats logical.... or we can talk about truth.
We can talk about "what makes sense"... or we can talk about what the Bible says... whether we think it makes sense or not.

 

[B-A-C]

He does not make the mistake of washing clean in His blood a Judas that would later betray Him....really not hard....

Please give scripture that says this... not an opinion.

2Pet 2:22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

The Bible says ... "it has happened"....some people, after being washed go back to being dirty again.

There are about a half dozen more verses like this.

 

[KingJ]

I think the problem here is... you equate logic with truth. They are not always the same thing.
We don't have to "out logic" Satan... we just have to "out truth" him.

Just because A and B are true... doesn't always mean C is true.

We can talk about whats logical.... or we can talk about truth.
We can talk about "what makes sense"... or we can talk about what the Bible says... whether we think it makes sense or not.

The truth is that God is just. I have accused your belief of portraying Him as unjust.

We are therefore not in a situation where you are defending scripture or 'truth'. As long as you continue to dance around my four accusations, you are coming across as the devil did in Matt 4. IE Let's not defend God as just and righteous in all His ways. Let's just read cherry picked scriptures and arrive at our own conclusions from them. You do exactly the same on the topic of hell.

Yet another two posts wasting my time. I made four simple and logical accusations of your belief. Please stop waffling and dancing.

 

[KingJ]

Please give scripture that says this... not an opinion.

You need me to give you a scripture that says God can properly vet a person...Num 23:19 and Jer 17:9-10.

Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? “I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”

2Pet 2:22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

The Bible says ... "it has happened"....some people, after being washed go back to being dirty again.

There are about a half dozen more verses like this.

I feel like you have not been reading my posts. Just because someone takes part in Christianity does not make them a Christian. A Christian is a new creation. We are not a dog returning to it's vomit.

--------------------------

I must actually just laugh at myself. I am trying to have an intellectual conversation with people that believe God would have gifted Judas with eternal bliss if he died before he betrayed Him. Stating that they agree that God can properly vet a person and proceed to ask me what my point is....

 

[KingJ]

Me: "What time is it?"

@B-A-C , @Gerbolski

"Ah, the concept of time... mere illusion, my friend! on the Moon it's always ‘lunar o'clock,’ and deep inside a black hole, time has ceased to exist altogether. Meanwhile, somewhere in a parallel universe, it’s perpetually brunch. So really, what time isn't it?"

 

[Gothedral]

@Gerbolski

Whilst I appreciate your efforted replies, I just can't keep running in circles with you guys.

I have made very simple and logical points. If you cannot give a direct answer, I just don't know how to communicate with you.
---------------

Noted and reiterated: We post Scripture, and you have insisted on putting your heart and mind over The Word of God. Please stop bearing false witness. Prayin' for ya ️

 

[Gerbolski]

Well I can see you are not open KingJ, do you even know what the word vet means ?

(vet
verb
vetted; vetting; vets
transitive verb

1a : to evaluate for possible approval or acceptance.)

And usually when the word vet is used in a phrase, such as say, you want to allow an immigrant to come in, you check his background to see if he would be a good fit, for the country.

Well the bible says this:

1Sa 16:7
(7) But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

When God is looking at the heart, it is not a vetting process perse that is happening, to were he is looking at their background, God is not looking at performance, but rather he is just looking for a heart that is open to him, that will receive him, and really that is it, for only when there is surrender, can God work his work in a person, it is not performance based, it is surrender, then allowing God to work his work in us, it is grace through faith, a work of grace, and it is a work of grace which produces fruit.

 

[Gerbolski]

Many will say that to establish doctrine, you need at least 2 or 3 witness verses.

Concerning the pretrib rapture, you have that and more.

1Th 1:10
(10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

This is not speaking about God's general wrath, but rather a specific wrath that was to come, that had not come yet, in Paul's time, and they were looking towards the coming of his son, which we still are.

And in Christ we are delivered from this wrath, when it comes, and the coming of his son, will get the alive at that time, out from this time of wrath.

Rev 3:10-11
(10) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(11) Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Who is kept from the hour of temptation ? The church is, and who is to be tried through this hour of temptation ?

The world.

And then it says behold I come quickly, it is not a coincidence that it says this here.

And it is through this coming rapture that we shall be kept from this trying time.

Luk 21:36
(36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

We escape all of it, through standing before the Son of man, at the rapture.

And then also there are types and shadows in the bible, such as the 10 virgins, and Abraham going into the ark, then God's judgment through the flood happens, then the boat comes down, which is a shadow of the rapture, tribulation period, then second coming.

 

[KingJ]

Noted and reiterated: We post Scripture, and you have insisted on putting your heart and mind over The Word of God. Please stop bearing false witness. Prayin' for ya ️

I like how you try spin the truth. Below are the facts.

A. I have diligently dealt with your scriptures. See post # 4 (and I can link you to a thread where I have rebutted every scripture you can think of and more).
B. Nobody here has tried to take a stab at the OP.
C. I summarised my accusations of a non-OSAS belief into four simple points and gave sound and logical reasons for them.

This discussion goes the same route as every other discussion with non-OSAS. Non-OSAS believers hold to their ideology and for some completely unknown reason, have a mental breakdown when reading my accusations.

I asked so nicely in post # 31 that to keeps things simple and focused, in order to avoid wild accusations as what you are throwing, that you answer simply as follows iro accusations raised in post # 5:

1. False because of A, B and C.
2. False because of A, B and C.
3. False because of A, B and C.
4. False because of A, B and C.

But alas, all I have received is a bunch of one sided gobbledygook.

 

[B-A-C]

1. Romans 8:29-39 – The Golden Chain of Salvation

"For those God foreknew he also predestined... and those he justified, he also glorified... Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... neither death nor life... nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God..."

Nothing can separate you from the love of God... that's great... the love of God is NOT... I repeat.. NOT the salvation of God.
God loves even unsaved sinners.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So right off the bat... your first verse doesn't support OSAS.

 

[KingJ]

Nothing can separate you from the love of God... that's great... the love of God is NOT... I repeat.. NOT the salvation of God.
God loves even unsaved sinners.

Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So right off the bat... your first verse doesn't support OSAS.

You misread that verse. Did you miss 'those He justified'? It is a reference to salvation and vetting a person for this gift.

What you need to do is tackle those four accusations raised. You are all showing ostrich syndrome on them. I mean that respectfully.

I have stated in simple terms that your belief incriminates and misrepresents God. You need to take the reasons I provided for these accusations and rebut them.

Unless it is that you simply do not agree that God is impartial, just and cannot lie....which I don't believe, but to be genuinely honest, I am a little concerned on as you do the same with scripture on hell....that when cherry picked incriminates God as monstrously evil.

 

[MedicBravo]

Try it this way.
1. God wants all to be saved and come to Him but "want" doesn't equate to certainty.
2. Free Will allows for acceptance or rejection of salvation.
3. Jesus suffered and died for all. One can reject it and in various ways but God is STILL an arm's length from those people.

The unforgivable sin, then, is knowingly and willfully attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, rejecting the Spirit’s testimony about Christ.
In broader terms, it means a persistent, hardened rejection of the Spirit’s conviction and the gospel of Christ. If someone continues in this state until death, they cannot be forgiven, because they’ve rejected the only means of forgiveness.

By Jesus and the Bible:
Catholics are WRONG. There is no Limbo and all that mess.
At death, one's sentence and eternal place are permanently set.

God takes sin VERY seriously so much that no human can truly comprehend it.
His judgment on those that have done that, is perfect, good, and Just even if it's your kids, spouse, parents, and lifelong best friend since kindergarten.

 

[KingJ]

Try it this way.
1. God wants all to be saved and come to Him but "want" doesn't equate to certainty.
2. Free Will allows for acceptance or rejection of salvation.
3. Jesus suffered and died for all. One can reject it and in various ways but God is STILL an arm's length from those people.

The unforgivable sin, then, is knowingly and willfully attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, rejecting the Spirit’s testimony about Christ.
In broader terms, it means a persistent, hardened rejection of the Spirit’s conviction and the gospel of Christ. If someone continues in this state until death, they cannot be forgiven, because they’ve rejected the only means of forgiveness.

I agree 100%. The disagreement I have with non-OSAS is not free will. I believe in OSAS and in true free will. Calvinism incriminates God as truly partial and monstrously evil.

I believe in OSAS from the moment of true repentance.

By Jesus and the Bible:
Catholics are WRONG. There is no Limbo and all that mess.
At death, one's sentence and eternal place are permanently set.

If you think about it, only Catholics are exempt from believing in non-OSAS as they believe all will have a second chance in Purgatory.

God takes sin VERY seriously so much that no human can truly comprehend it.
His judgment on those that have done that, is perfect, good, and Just even if it's your kids, spouse, parents, and lifelong best friend since kindergarten.

The disagreement I have with non-OSAS is clearly stated in my post # 5. Would you be able to take a stab at that?

 

[B-A-C]

You misread that verse. Did you miss 'those He justified'? It is a reference to salvation and vetting a person for this gift.

Didn't miss it. This difference is... you think they are justified forever no matter what.
I don't... but that's the core of the whole discussion.