Opinion Poll: The end times...

[BSLaidlaw]

Weather I am in the correct section or not, I don't know, but I would be interested to know peoples opinions and reasonings on Tribulation, Rapture, the End Times, and the book of Revelation in general. I would be curious to see what people think, and what of it compares to my views of the second coming of Christ, which I believe could be happen well within my lifetime. I am open however open to admitting that I could be wrong.

Just curious to see what others have to say on the subject. Please know that nothing that anyone says will be taken as condescending, and nor should they feel as if they will be judged.

I guess that I should start it off: My personal opinion and interpretation of the events to take place as set forth in the Book of revelation, is that, these events are not far off. Because of what I see happening in the world around me, I have reason to believe that this could be within my lifetime. as for the "pre, mid, post" rapture beliefs, I believe that we will go through it all. I'd be happy to be proved wrong, but it is the conclusion that I have come to. I don't know if the judgments set forth are literal, symbolic, or whatnot, but I believe fully in the power and justice of GOD. And to that end, I will trust him. However, I think that we should prepare ourselves, both spiritually, and physically for the events yet to come. whatever this means for you, could be totally different from what it means for me... but that is the beauty of it.

Well, I look forward to seeing what people come up with!

 

[Coright4Christ]

First off all my information i get comes from my Dakes Annotated Reference Bible, it give scripture reference and helps the reader to understand the scripture. So with that said, on the matter of the rapture i turn to Revelations 1:19 first, because this is where i believe Christ is telling John that there will be a rapture. The scripture reads "Write the things which thou hast seen. and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter." This one verse is basically breaking Revelations into 3 parts. I believe Jesus is talking about the church here, Rev. 1 talks about what John has seen, past. As Rev. 2 and 3 come about they break down the things that concern the church until the rapture. Then we come to a very important part of why i believe there is a rapture, Rev 4:1. the scripture reads, "After this i looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
This is the second time "hereafter" is used. I believe this means things to happen here after the church is gone. the voice in the scripture says "come up hither". There is no mention of John passing on before he is called up, leading me to believe that the rapture will take place at this moment in scripture.
One other thing to look at is before the verse of Rev. 3:19, the last verse of chapter 3, the words church or churches is mentioned 19 times in Revelations. After Rev. 3:19 there is no mention of church or churches throughout the rest of Revelations, leading me to the conclusion that these events in Rev. 4-22 are all taking place after the churches have been brought up into heaven, and the only explanation of this would have to be the rapture.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to voice my opinion. God bless.

 

[BSLaidlaw]

interesting, valid reasoning, and well thought out. Thanks for adding your ideas!

 

[Davy]

To BSLaidlaw: Talking about the end times, I personally am very interested in Revelation chapters 17 & 18, the destruction of 'Babylon the great!'

You mentioned the, Tribulation, Rapture, the End Times and and the book of Revelation in general! One of the events that takes place just before the End Times according to the book of revelation is the judging and destruction of Babylon the great. Therefore, this should be of special interest to all those who look forward to Jesus coming, as this will signal the end is upon us. But the question is: Who is Babylon the great, why does God want to destroy her and who does he get to destroy her?

Revelation 17:1-5, NIV, Describes Babylon the Great as a "great prostitute" one who has "committed adultery" with the kings of he Earth, and "the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries." So, she is grossly immoral and offensive to God and has intoxicated mankind with the wine of her grossly immoral behavior. So who could this be? It cannot be the kings or governments of the Earth, because she commits gross immoral acts with them, and it cannot be the immoral world as Jesus destroys that at Armageddon!

Revelation 18:4-8, NIV then warns: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues; 5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes. 6 Give back to her as she has given; pay her back double for what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup. 7 Give her as much torture and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow, and I will never mourn.' 8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."
Notice all those who do not wish to share in her destruction must Come out of her. I personally believe this represents False Religion, or Bad Religion! Contrary to popular belief, not all religions lead to God, how can they when some worship Alla, some are strange Cults that follow men, and Mystic religions, that intoxicate mankind, and are guilty of gross spiritual immoral behavior, like teachings of Demon and Spiritualistic practices. Any practice or doctrine that is not in harmony with God's Word the bible, and rejects Jesus Christ as their King, which happens to include religions that call themselves Christian!!!

But, the main point for me is who is going to destroy Babylon the great! Revelation 17:16, 17, says: "The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose." So who does the "beast and the ten horns" represent?

The vision shows that when the wild beast and the ten horns vent their hatred on her they will strip off her royal robes and all her jewelry. They will plunder her wealth, something many religions have in abundance. They "make her .　.　. naked," shamefully exposing her real character. Then they destroy her, "eat up her fleshy parts," reducing her to a lifeless skeleton. Finally, they "completely burn her with fire," and "God will put it into their heart to do this." She is burned up like a carrier of the plague, without even a decent burial! This wild beast I believe is a powerful governmental entity that is not like the other kings or governments that have immoral relations with her. The only governmental power that has authority over all these other kings of the earth and can tell them what to do, and has the power to force the world to follow its lead and has the political clout to do this, and has its own army is, wait for it, the United Nations! You might think that is totally irrational, but God has said, he will put it into the beasts heart to turn on Babylon the great and utterly destroy her! He will make this beast do it!

You might think that is silly, but remember, the book of Revelation is talking about what WILL take place in the time of the end, and 'Babylon the great' WILL be destroyed, and true servants of God must come out of her or WILL suffer her fate. Make sure your religion teaches what God's Word teaches, not doctrines of men!

　
　

 

[cole]

I think that the book of Revelation has some interesting things in it that relate to an anti-Roman message. The number 666 has a numerical equivalent to the name "Nero" (as in the psychotic Roman emperor) in Hebrew (all Hebrew letters have numerical values). It's a compelling theory.

I think that one day the shumer will hit the fan and whether the world goes out with a bang or a whimper (thanks to T.S. Eliot for the scary thought!) we will meet our Maker! I'm not so sure about a final judgment on our individual lives but I'm sure there will be at least individual reckonings with our past deeds that may or may not bring us closer to (or in some cases separate us) from God.

 

[jiggyfly]

I think that the book of Revelation has some interesting things in it that relate to an anti-Roman message. The number 666 has a numerical equivalent to the name "Nero" (as in the psychotic Roman emperor) in Hebrew (all Hebrew letters have numerical values). It's a compelling theory.

I think that one day the shumer will hit the fan and whether the world goes out with a bang or a whimper (thanks to T.S. Eliot for the scary thought!) we will meet our Maker! I'm not so sure about a final judgment on our individual lives but I'm sure there will be at least individual reckonings with our past deeds that may or may not bring us closer to (or in some cases separate us) from God.

I appreciate your open mindedness here Cole but the last line in your post is somewhat conflicting.

Here's one of my favorite scriptures Cole.

And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away. Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38&39

 

[cole]

What I meant to say was that I'm not sure if God will deliver a "final Judgment" on our lives (leading to heaven or hell), but I think that we'll have an opportunity to judge our own lives.

 

[evstevemd]

I will be back for now let me explain that these stuffs were confusing me until I undertook my own Bible study and I'm still studying open to correction and suggestion. One of the verse that settled me on this is Mat 24:37 - 39

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Here are the points I got as Jesus was summarizing for seekers like me, that His coming will be like the days of Noah (Go back to genesis to get that) but as summary
1. Things will go as usual eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.
2. Something like "righteous by faith", Noah entering the ark happens (Hebrews 11)
3. Judgement of God like flood befalls the earth

So I believe Things will go on as usual (Note the birth pangs rising), until righteous sons and daughter of God (made righteous through faith in The Son of God) gets safe into the ark. Then Tribulation judgements will befall the earth.

In summary I'm pretrib (In rapture), premillenialist. those terms might be superficialized but I mean them in simple and direct terms

Mungu awabariki nyote (God bless you all)
Stefano

 

[evstevemd]

And Jiggyfly, I love your signature, Sure: Jesus is Lord, and there's nothing you can do about it!

 

[jiggyfly]

And Jiggyfly, I love your signature, Sure: Jesus is Lord, and there's nothing you can do about it!

Asante Evstevemd, Yesu ni Bwana, jana, leo, kesho Hallelujah!

(Been awhile since I used my very limited basic knowledge of kiswahili)

 

[evstevemd]

Asante Evstevemd, Yesu ni Bwana, jana, leo, kesho Hallelujah!

(Been awhile since I used my very limited basic knowledge of kiswahili)

you got it!

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Never

I used to listen to people say this and that and as I read scripture I would look to the Lords return. BUT I am most confident as the heavens exists that these are the last days and the eminent return Of Christ is near. The rapture for us will be maybe tomorrow! Are you ready? I am!

 

[BSLaidlaw]

I agree with you completely shipwrecked, I believe that "the end is neigh" and I fully believe in being prepared for any eventuality.

 

[Davy]

To BSLaidlaw:

Talking about the end times, another Bible prophecy that should be of interest to all keen Bible students looking for the signs of Jesus Christ second coming is recorded at 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, (NLT) Paul writes here: "Now concerning how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters, we don’t really need to write you. For you know quite well that the day of the Lord’s return will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. When people are saying, "Everything is peaceful and secure," then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape."

Notice that!!! Peaceful and secure! or peace and security as we know it today. Paul's comments in verse 1, seam to suggest this prophecy about the time of the end was so well known among the first century Christians, in fact, he trivializes the need to mention it, then he says, God's judgment will come upon them, non believers, suddenly, like a pregnant womans labor pains, and no non believer would escape.

I do not believe it is a coincidence, the President of America and many of the European leaders have for the past few years been talking or "saying," "peace and security." Paul wrote: When people are saying, or talking about peace and security this would be one of the final signs leading to Jesus Christ second coming, because their destruction would follow and be so great none of them would escape.

Just stop and think about what Paul wrote and what evidently the first century Christians had a clear understanding of: The nations would be talking about peace and security and THEN, Jesus second coming would be sudden, like birth pangs, or a thief in the night, and non believer would be destroyed. Do you believe the Bible is inspired by God? Do you believe it cannot lie? Do you believe Jesus will come again? if so, the the only question remaining is, do you believe this will happen when the nations are talking about peace and security and do you believe you will be saved?

 

[Davy]

To BSLaidlaw: Continuing on from my comments regarding the destruction of 'Babylon the Great!' in Revelation chapters 17 and 18, and how the nations would be talking about 'Peace and Security' and THEN, Jesus second coming would be sudden, like birth pangs, or a thief in the night, and non believer would be destroyed, in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3, mentioned in my previous posts.

Has it occurred to you, that these two Bible prophesies are related and significantly so!

Babylon the Great is considered by many to refer to false or bad religion, because it cannot be the kings or governments of the Earth, because she commits gross immoral acts with them, and Babylon the Great cannot be the immoral world as Jesus destroys that at Armageddon! In fact Babylon the Great intoxicates mankind through her spiritualistic religious practices. (Revelation 17:1-5) So Babylon the Great must refer to false or bad religion. Now what has this to do with the leaders of the nations saying or declaring 'Peace and Security.' (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3)

Just take a brief look in to resent history during the last days. The wars that have been fought in South Africa and especially in the Middle East, and the continuing conflict over Jerusalem that threatens to spill out all over the Middle East. Manny of these conflict have been STOKED by religions, particularly, I am sorry to say by Islamic religions, and some Judaisms and Christian religions. Not prejudice, just fact!

So the only way that the nations of the world can declare 'Peace and security' and mean it, is if they deal with this influence, and Revelation 17, and 18, say that these leaders described as wild beasts kill and destroy 'Babylon the Great,' (Revelation 17:16, 17) then they would be free to say "We have Peace and Security" because the elements that where STOKING a lot of these conflict have been dealt with. I have no idea how, Revelation 17:17, puts it: "For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose," that is the kings or leaders of this world.

But one think is certain, 'Babylon the Great' will be destroyed as is prophesied, and there will be some declaration of 'Peace and security' before Jesus Christ's second coming, as again is prophesied. How these event unfold is uncertain, but they will! Because the Bible can not be wrong and God cannot lie. So keep a careful look at the news, as these two event come to ahead!!!

 

[Davy]

Have you heard of the 'MAN OF LAWLESSNESS' this is a very interesting subject because the Apostle Paul says he would exist during the time of the end. Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4: (NIV) "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." And in verse 8 he wrote: (NIV) "And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

It is vital that we identify this man of lawlessness. Why? Because he is intent on undermining our good standing with God and our hope of eternal life. How? By getting us to abandon the truth and to believe falsehoods in its place, thus diverting us from worshiping God.

So who is this man of lawlessness? 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10, (NIV) gives us a clue: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

Was Paul speaking of a single individual? NO! for he states that this "man" was evident in Paul's day and would continue in existence until God destroyed him. 2 Thessalonians 2:7, says: (NIV) "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work." Thus, he has existed for many centuries. Obviously, no literal man has lived that long. So the expression 'MAN OF LAWLESSNESS' must represent a group of people. So what group of people do you know who:

Displayed all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and they are associated with Satan! (2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10) Well, just look at who Jesus said was performing counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and they were associated with Satan! In John 8:44, (NIV) Jesus said: "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire." Yes!!! it was the bad religious leaders of his day. Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:22, 23: "Many will say to me on that day, (The time of the end) 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

The man of lawlessness is a group of bad religious leaders who mislead many with powerful works, but only for their own selfish ends! Do you know any men of lawlessness???

 

[Davy]

To BSLaidlaw: Another interesting topic concerning the end times, is understanding what the Bible says about the 'ANTICHRIST' and identifying who or what is it! Many have tried to identify the Antichrist to a specific individual that would rise up in the time of the end, but only by carefully looking at what the bible says, can we learn 'what' and 'who' is the Antichrist.

The Greek word for Antichrist means, 'against (or instead of) Christ.' It occurs a total of five times, all of them in two of John's letters. Interestingly, according to 1 John 2:18, the subject of the Antichrist was not new among the Christians in the 1st century, stating: (NIV) "you have heard that the Antichrist is coming!" Then John goes on to also write in 1 John 2:18, (NIV): "even now many Antichrists have come." So this phrase 'Antichrist' does not just refer to the time of the end. They existed during the 1st centry. Then John shows where these Antichrists have come from in the next verse, 1 John 2:19, (NIV) says: "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us." These Antichrists came from within the spirit anointed Christian congregation. Also, notice John did not restrict the appearance, existence, and activity of such Antichrists to some future time only! but showed that the Antichrist was then present and would 'continue' on to the last days, (1 John 4:3) the Antichrist has always been here.

Then, in his second letter he clearly states what they do, 2 John 1:7, (NIV) says: "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the Antichrist." It is not "the Antichrist" as in a individual, but a class of people who deny Jesus as the Christ and as the Son of God, and thus by exstention, deny his place in God's arrangement, his fulfillment of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures as the promised Messiah, his ministry and teachings and prophecies, as well as any efforts to deny his right to rule over the earth in his second coming.

So, do you know anyone who denies Jesus is the Christ, and his role in bible prophecy? Then they are part of the class of people who are called the "Antichrist." Remember, John said they had come out from the midst of the 1st century congregation, Antichrists were once fellow believers who have turned their back on Christ and deny his as being their King.

 

[Brother Mike]

The end!!!! Run!!!!!

Davy:

It is vital that we identify this man of lawlessness. Why? Because he is intent on undermining our good standing with God and our hope of eternal life. How? By getting us to abandon the truth and to believe falsehoods in its place, thus diverting us from worshiping God.

Would be great if we could, but the Church won't be here when He is revealed. (Read the rest of the scriptures below that) The falling away, "Apostasy" has already occurred. Our man stream churches are allow Gay ministers and to take the pulpit. So far where in the Millions (14 alone for the Lutheran Church) that do this.

That is just "Gay" Not counting the sexual sin and other things Jesus warned about in the Letters to the seven Chruches.


Antichrist:

John is the only one that Called the son of perdition this. It means Anti anointing. (Read Eph for those things that can diminish the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit on your life)

Antichrist are not people as you stated because we don't wrestle against flesh and blood. It's spirits that set up things to get the anointing off your life. Don't grieve the Holy Spirit. Satan can not defeat someone anointed of God. Hence, AntiChrist.

The man of lawlessness is a group of bad religious leaders who mislead many with powerful works, but only for their own selfish ends! Do you know any men of lawlessness???

Satan is very limited to any false signs and wonders until the Anointed Church is removed.

Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:22, 23: "Many will say to me on that day, (The time of the end) 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Jesus gave no specific time. That day simply means a day they gave an account. Also, they really did cast out devils, as Jesus said Satan's kingdom is not divided against itself. It was by the Power of the Holy Spirit that they were able to do so, and perform miracles.

Jesus point was that though the Holy Spirit is a fee Gift, and all the powers of the Holy Spirit. Your character must also line up. If you read the scripture above. THE TREE MUST BEAR FRUIT!!!!

Nobody will call Jesus Lord who is working for Satan and doing lying signs and wonders.

The morale of the story is that operating in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit does not qualify you for anything but that you bear fruit of following Jesus and being a doer of the Word of God.

There is a Rapture as evident by scripture. We will not be here. It is soon within 20 years or shorter.

Things that Jesus have told us are happening, and Jesus said THAT generation will not pass away before these things happen.

Be prepared!!!

Jesus Is Lord

 

[JHM]

I too have studied the "Scriptures about "The Destruction Of Babylon" quite extensively, and while agreeing that it is likely to take place in the relatively near future, I have come to much different conclusions about what we are to "Come out of". Out of curiosity, has anyone here ever discovered the "Nicolaitans Code" ?

 

[El Hombre viejo]

What I meant to say was that I'm not sure if God will deliver a "final Judgment" on our lives (leading to heaven or hell), but I think that we'll have an opportunity to judge our own lives.

Gods final judgment has already been delivered on our lives Cole. We have been judged innocent. We have been declared righteous in Him