Once saved always saved

[Butch5]

We breath out carbon dioxide.

Yes, how does that address what I said?. The word translated spiritual in the Bible means wind or breath. If one is talking about spirit they are talking about wind or breath

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, how does that address what I said?. The word translated spiritual in the Bible means wind or breath. If one is talking about spirit they are talking about wind or breath

I don't agree with that. That is a misunderstanding.

 

[Curtis]

But the reply was yours. Paul didn't say he was writing to dead people, you did. So Paul wouldn't know why you think he was writing to dead people. You're the only who can answer that.

Let's read it again.....Paul said to the Church ar Collosse
Who was Paul writing to?

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

 

[Butch5]

I don't agree with that. That is a misunderstanding..

You can disagree. But that's what they mean. You can check a lexicon, you don't have to take my word for it the Hebrew words are Neshamah and Ruach. The Greek words are Noe and Pneuma. The all have the same primary meaning which is wind or breath. Sometimes they are translated figuratively as spirit. But that's a figure of speech.

 

[Butch5]

Let's read it again.....Paul said to the Church ar Collosse
Who was Paul writing to?

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse:

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

It's my contention that he was writing to people who were alive. You indicated that they were dead.

 

[Curtis]

It's my contention that he was writing to people who were alive. You indicated that they were dead.

Dont say I said that Paul did not me. I did not write the Bible.

 

[Butch5]

Dont say I said that Paul did not me. I did not write the Bible.

I asked you if you were saying that Paul was writing to dead people. This is your answer in post #10

"Yep, you guessed it. The only reason born-again believers are still alive in their physical bodies (which have died) is that the Spirit of God is giving their bodies life."

You answered in the affirmative. You agreed that you were saying Paul was writing to dead people. I then proceeded to ask you how dead people could read and several other questions. You side stepped those questions.

 

[Curtis]

I asked you if you were saying that Paul was writing to dead people. This is your answer in post #10

"Yep, you guessed it. The only reason born-again believers are still alive in their physical bodies (which have died) is that the Spirit of God is giving their bodies life."

You answered in the affirmative. You agreed that you were saying Paul was writing to dead people. I then proceeded to ask you how dead people could read and several other questions. You side stepped those questions.

Who do you think the "you" is in that verse? Paul was writing to the Church!

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

 

[Butch5]

Who do you think the "you" is in that verse? Paul was writing to the Church!

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Yes, he was writing to the Colossians. Are you suggesting he was writing to dead people? Were they in the grave?

 

[God's Truth]

You can disagree. But that's what they mean. You can check a lexicon, you don't have to take my word for it the Hebrew words are Neshamah and Ruach. The Greek words are Noe and Pneuma. The all have the same primary meaning which is wind or breath. Sometimes they are translated figuratively as spirit. But that's a figure of speech.

I don't go by lexicon's, they are biased because of the denomination of the people giving the meanings.

I go by the scriptures.

God's breath gives us our own spirit, and then we become alive and breath.

 

[Butch5]

I don't go by lexicon's, they are biased because of the denomination of the people giving the meanings.

I go by the scriptures.

God's breath gives us our own spirit, and then we become alive and breath.

Ok, firstly, when you say you go by Scripture, you're really saying you go by your understanding of Scripture. We all do. The Scriptures don't speak. What's interesting is that if you're reading the Scriptures in English you are going by someone's interpretation. If you accept their interpretation on what basis do you reject their definitions?

But, let's look at the Scriptures.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

In the above passage the word translated breath is the Hebrew word Neshamah. It's used in the breath of life.

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. (Gen. 6:17 KJV)

In this passage also using the phrase, "breath of life" the Hebrew word translated breath is Ruach.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
(Gen. 1:2 KJV)

In this passage the Hebrew word translated "Spirit" is also Ruach.

What we find in Scripture is that God's breath of life gives man life and the ability to reason. That breath returns to God at death and man returns to the dust. The breath or spirit is not man. It is God's breath in man.

 

[God's Truth]

@Butch5

The breath of God gives us our own spirit.
Our breath just gives carbon dioxide.
We breath because we are made a live by our spirit.

Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

 

[God's Truth]

Ok, firstly, when you say you go by Scripture, you're really saying you go by your understanding of Scripture. We all do. The Scriptures don't speak. What's interesting is that if you're reading the Scriptures in English you are going by someone's interpretation. If you accept their interpretation on what basis do you reject their definitions?

I'm going by the scriptures. You are probably going by a false teacher, because I recognize what you said as what those teachers teach.

But, let's look at the Scriptures.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

That is God's breath.

In the above passage the word translated breath is the Hebrew word Neshamah. It's used in the breath of life.

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. (Gen. 6:17 KJV)

In this passage also using the phrase, "breath of life" the Hebrew word translated breath is Ruach.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
(Gen. 1:2 KJV)

In this passage the Hebrew word translated "Spirit" is also Ruach.

What we find in Scripture is that God's breath of life gives man life and the ability to reason. That breath returns to God at death and man returns to the dust. The breath or spirit is not man. It is God's breath in man.

So you didn't say before that our breath is our spirit?

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5

The breath of God gives us our own spirit.
Our breath just gives carbon dioxide.
We breath because we are made a live by our spirit.

Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

If by spirit you mean a disembodied conscious being, no. Job 32:8 says, but it is the Ruach in a person and the Neshemah of the Almighty that gives them understanding.
Likewise Job 33:4. The Ruach of God has made me, and the Neshamah of the Almighty gives me life.
Job is saying what Moses said in Gen 2:7 It is the Neshamah of life that God breathed into the man and the man became a living being. Neshamah and Ruach both mean wind or breath.

 

[Butch5]

I'm going by the scriptures. You are probably going by a false teacher, because I recognize what you said as what those teachers teach.

That is God's breath.

So you didn't say before that our breath is our spirit?

We can dispense with the false teacher nonsense. I'm giving you Scripture that I assume you believe. Ruach and Neshsamah are repeatedly translated wind or breath. You disagreed with that. I'm showing it to you directly from Scripture. In Scripture we see that both the Ruach of life and the Neshamah of life translated as the breath of life.

There is no breath or spirit that "IS" man. when Scripture speaks of "our" spirit, it is referring to the breath of life from God. The breath of life is something of God, it's not man. Job says if God retrieves "HIS" ruach and Neshamah all flesh would die.

If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
(Job 34:14-15 KJV)

HIs ruach and his Neshamah

Job didn't say if God retrieves my ruach or neshemah, he said His. It's God's ruach, neshamah, breath or figuratively, spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

If by spirit you mean a disembodied conscious being, no. Job 32:8 says, but it is the Ruach in a person and the Neshemah of the Almighty that gives them understanding.

God's breath gave us our spirit. It is how we have life and understanding.

Likewise Job 33:4. The Ruach of God has made me, and the Neshamah of the Almighty gives me life.
Job is saying what Moses said in Gen 2:7 It is the Neshamah of life that God breathed into the man and the man became a living being. Neshamah and Ruach both mean wind or breath.

You don't believe that God gave us all our own spirit?

 

[God's Truth]

We can dispense with the false teacher nonsense. I'm giving you Scripture that I assume you believe. Ruach and Neshsamah are repeatedly translated wind or breath. You disagreed with that. I'm showing it to you directly from Scripture. In Scripture we see that both the Ruach of life and the Neshamah of life translated as the breath of life.

There is no breath or spirit that "IS" man. when Scripture speaks of "our" spirit, it is referring to the breath of life from God. The breath of life is something of God, it's not man. Job says if God retrieves "HIS" ruach and Neshamah all flesh would die.

If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
(Job 34:14-15 KJV)

HIs ruach and his Neshamah

Job didn't say if God retrieves my ruach or neshemah, he said His. It's God's ruach, neshamah, breath or figuratively, spirit.

God breathes our spirit into us.

Hebrews 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

Zechariah 12:1 A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:

That scripture prove the spirit has a form.


Malachi 2:15 Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

 

[Butch5]

God's breath gave us our spirit. It is how we have life and understanding.



You don't believe that God gave us all our own spirit?

No. There's nothing in Scripture that says man is a spirit. God gave man life or breath. That's all. What is translated as spirit is the breath of life. God put it in all living beings and retrieves it when they die. You said you go by Scripture, well, that's what Scripture teaches

 

[God's Truth]

No. There's nothing in Scripture that says man is a spirit. God gave man life or breath. That's all. What is translated as spirit is the breath of life. God put it in all living beings and retrieves it when they die. You said you go by Scripture, well, that's what Scripture teaches

I gave you scriptures in post #37.

 

[Butch5]

God breathes our spirit into us.

Hebrews 12:9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

Zechariah 12:1 A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares:

That scripture prove the spirit has a form.


Malachi 2:15 Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

There is no "our spirit". It is God's breath. Your quotation of Zechariah 12:1 is wrongly translated. The word human isn't in the Hebrew or Greek Old Testament. That translation makes my point. The translator translated it how "HE" understands the Bible. He is wrong. As I said earlier, when you say you go by the Bible, what you're really saying is, I go by my understanding of the Bible. You're only going by the Bible if your understanding of it is correct. If it's not then you're not going by the Bible.

Hebrews 12 and Malchi 2 don't prove your point