Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact. (a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
Once saved always saved? / Is eternal security Biblica
- Thread starter blessed07
- Start date
Hi Blessed07. I do not believe your conclusion is entirely biblically sound! Just take a few moments to reason on these following verses from the NASB.
Jesus said in Mathew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved!" Surely this means a person's final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus, but only if he continues to do so, despite persecution. If he gave up during persecution and denied Jesus, how could he still be saved, because Jesus said, if you deny me, I will deny you! (Luke 12:8, 9)
Paul wrote in Philippians 2:12: "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." If one does not work out their salvation with fear and trembling, instead is lukewarm and inactive, how can they be saved? After all, Jesus will vomit out those who are lukewarm! (Revelation 3:16) Surely, Paul was stating to them, not to be overly confident, but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.
Hebrews 10:26, 27, says: "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." Surely, this clearly shows, the bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what sins a person may commit after he is "saved" he will not lose his salvation. It encourages faithfulness until the end of their life!
Hebrews 6:4-6, says: "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." Paul clearly shows here, a person anointed with holy spirit can lose their hope of salvation if they do not remain faithful.
As regards Romans 8:28, 29, Paul wrote: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren" Yet, to these same ones, Peter wrote in 2 Peter 1:10: "Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble." Now, if these individuals were predestined to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individual to be saved. This verse must mean then, God predestined a group of people, "Christians" that would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ, not specific individuals. Then these ones must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them, otherwise it does not make sense with the rest of the bible!
Jesus said in Mathew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved!" Surely this means a person's final salvation is not determined at the moment that he begins to put faith in Jesus, but only if he continues to do so, despite persecution. If he gave up during persecution and denied Jesus, how could he still be saved, because Jesus said, if you deny me, I will deny you! (Luke 12:8, 9)
Paul wrote in Philippians 2:12: "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." If one does not work out their salvation with fear and trembling, instead is lukewarm and inactive, how can they be saved? After all, Jesus will vomit out those who are lukewarm! (Revelation 3:16) Surely, Paul was stating to them, not to be overly confident, but to realize that their final salvation was not yet assured.
Hebrews 10:26, 27, says: "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of fire which will consume the adversaries." Surely, this clearly shows, the bible does not go along with the idea that no matter what sins a person may commit after he is "saved" he will not lose his salvation. It encourages faithfulness until the end of their life!
Hebrews 6:4-6, says: "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the holy spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame." Paul clearly shows here, a person anointed with holy spirit can lose their hope of salvation if they do not remain faithful.
As regards Romans 8:28, 29, Paul wrote: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren" Yet, to these same ones, Peter wrote in 2 Peter 1:10: "Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble." Now, if these individuals were predestined to salvation, they could not possibly fail, regardless of what they did. Since effort is required on the part of the individual to be saved. This verse must mean then, God predestined a group of people, "Christians" that would conform to the pattern set by Jesus Christ, not specific individuals. Then these ones must prove faithful if they are actually to attain the reward set before them, otherwise it does not make sense with the rest of the bible!
Dear Friend in Jesus. Reading again the scripture you quote, my thoughts would be that a person is saved......just as long as they stay saved.
God our Father in Jesus is Just, and abounding in mercy. The dying thief rejoiced to see that 'fountain' in his day........ect. Such is the Mercy of the LOrd God Almighty.
But the abuse of such mercy.........can result in a lost Eternity.
I am so thankful for God's grace that the shedding of Jesus's precious blood satisfied the righteous requirements of God regardless of my state. I am His because i have accepted Jesus as my Saviour. Having accepted that the Lord Jesus Christ died for my sins, regardless of my state, i am His although if i backslide i lose the joy of my salvation for time but not eternity. In God's sight the blood shedding by Jesus was done once and for all and having accepted Him as my Saviour i am His eternally and no accusations or doubts by Satan can change this. What joy and peace this brings every soul who has accepted and believed what God did on the cross.
The blood placed on the doorposts of houses to avert the avenging angel in the OT was not dependent on the state of the people inside the house but on the righteous and holy requirement of God.
The blood placed on the doorposts of houses to avert the avenging angel in the OT was not dependent on the state of the people inside the house but on the righteous and holy requirement of God.
Boanerges
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 3,892
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
That depends on who you ask!! Personally I am saved by Him and am quite confident that my Jesus is able to keep me that way. To many saints view their life as a walk of works rather than a walk of faith producing fruitful works.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Romans 8:30
Your quote from Romans 8:30 may not mean what you think it means. Reading Romans chapter 8 in context with the preceeding chapters, and the chapters that follow. It is clear whom Paul is talking to in Romans, the Jews.
Paul's extensive argument in Romans, answers the question. Why did Israel fail to achieve justification through the Mosaic law.
Romans 7:1-2, Paul says he is speaking to those "who know the law".
Romans 9:1-5, Paul explains who Israel really is.
Romans 10, Paul's desire is that Israel is saved.
Romans 11, Has god rejected Israel, etc
Now if you insert Romans chapter 8 within these chapters above it will be in context. So Romans 8:29, "For those He foreknew". For the nation of Israel whom God previously knew. God predestined salvation for Israel. Paul is not talking about the Gentiles (us).
I hope that helps, many people read Romans 8:29-30 out of context.
Your quote from Romans 8:30 may not mean what you think it means. Reading Romans chapter 8 in context with the preceeding chapters, and the chapters that follow. It is clear whom Paul is talking to in Romans, the Jews.
Paul's extensive argument in Romans, answers the question. Why did Israel fail to achieve justification through the Mosaic law.
Romans 7:1-2, Paul says he is speaking to those "who know the law".
Romans 9:1-5, Paul explains who Israel really is.
Romans 10, Paul's desire is that Israel is saved.
Romans 11, Has god rejected Israel, etc
Now if you insert Romans chapter 8 within these chapters above it will be in context. So Romans 8:29, "For those He foreknew". For the nation of Israel whom God previously knew. God predestined salvation for Israel. Paul is not talking about the Gentiles (us).
I hope that helps, many people read Romans 8:29-30 out of context.
this is actually one of the most dagerous teachings there is out there. it came about through the baptist doctrine about 73 yrs ago. however it teaches us that we can live like the dvil and still be saved. this is not true. we can walk away from the lord by continuing in our sin.
Blessed07, you already started this EXACT same topic here:
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/35593-once-person-saved-they-always-saved-when-peop.html
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/35593-once-person-saved-they-always-saved-when-peop.html
I hope you don't mind if I reason these as well.
Actually, it doesn't say anything at all about salvation being uncertain. What it says is that the one who endures will be saved. While it may appear this is as you say, we cannot reconcile this conclusion with the multiple instances where it refers to salvation as being a past tense act in the life of the believer. All this passage is saying is that he who endures will be saved because he who is saved will endure.
This is not speaking of working out our salvation as much as it is speaking of working out our sanctification. Salvation is an act of grace, not an act of works. Because of this, there is no amount of working out that we could ever do to be saved. Paul is calling us, as believers, to work out our sanctification through faith.
Eternal Security does not teach what you are saying either. The verse you posted is not saying that sins will cause a person to lose his salvation. The reason for this is clear in 1 John 2:1 where is says that if we sin, we currently have an Advocate in Christ. His blood was a completed act, not a potential one. The verse you quoted is referring to those who sin willfully with no remorse or repentance. That person is not a Christian. He knows the Truth and still it does not affect him in his spirit. This man is hopeless in the thought of ever coming to salvation and the sacrifice of Christ is not for him for there is no sacrifice for his sins. He is lost.
Once again, this is not referring to Christians. This is referring to apostates who know the Truth and have witnessed it first hand. They have enjoyed the blessings of the Spirit in the Church but they have not given their lives to Him. These men have tasted the Spirit but have never been drenched in the Spirit. They are still carnal man and they will never see salvation because they are content with their carnal nature.
It makes perfect sense if you read Romans 9.
More or less, this statement declares the blood to be inefficient, merely temporary, only partially cleansing, and potentially useless.
^ This is quite accurate.
Plain reading of scripture
Paul wrote in Philippians 2:12: "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Dear Mr Rojoloco, the plain reading of Philippians 2:12 does in fact read "work out your salvation". The word used by Paul is "salvation."
Paul did not say "santification".
Please explain why you do not read this line correctly.
Paul wrote in Philippians 2:12: "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Dear Mr Rojoloco, the plain reading of Philippians 2:12 does in fact read "work out your salvation". The word used by Paul is "salvation."
Paul did not say "santification".
Please explain why you do not read this line correctly.
Actually, I suggest you read up a little more. This is certainly NOT what the doctrine of Eternal Security teaches. This is what ignorant people think the doctrine of Eternal Security teaches.
oh but it does techthis. i have heard it taught many times through the baptists. it is a false teaching that tells people if you stated the sinners prayer then your past, present and future sins are forgiven. according to this we never have to repent again and that is very false. the only truth to that whole teaching is that god will not give us a gift just to turn and take it away. however we can infact walk away from salvation and the word of god states very clearly that there will be many that will turn from the faith to teach hypocricy and lies. if they are to turn away from the faith then that means that they were with the faith at some point or another. they chose to walk away.
I hate to break it to you but you weren't listening to Baptists. You were listening to false teachers who were teaching apostasy. The official Baptist Faith & Message goes against everything you just said here. If the "baptists" you were listening to taught this, they are not recognized as Baptists by the association.
To believe this means one of 2 things; both with very grace implications.
1) It means you do not believe God is the author of faith (Hebrews 12:2). This means you believe Scripture to be a lie.
2) You do not believe God will perfect our faith (Hebrews 12:2) and complete what He has started (Philippians 1:6). This also means you believe Scripture to be a lie.
Hebrews 12:2 said:
Philippians 1:6 said:
the verse i mentioned above is in 1 timothy 4. liberty university teaches exactly what i have stated concerning the once saved always saved gospel. this being a baptist university. i have never met a baptist who has not taught the once saved always saved gospel. yes christ is the author of our faith. however he does not force us to do anything. the bible does not lie. it states many will turn from the faith to teach hypocrisy.
My point was not that Baptists do not teach Eternal Security. My point is that Baptists do not teach your version of Eternal Security. In fact, I don't know too many people who do. Most people who claim Eternal Security teaches what you said are the opponents of Eternal Security and not the advocates. Advocates of Eternal Security will never tell you repent once, live your life how you want to live it, and be saved regardless.
Advocates of Eternal Security will tell you God is not only the author of our faith but also the perfecter (Hebrews 12:2, Philippians 1:6). We will tell you that the blood of Christ was a permanent action. It cleansed so perfectly that there would never again be a need for a sacrifice. It cleansed so permanently that Christ died once for all (1 Peter 3:18) and not many times for many sins. Advocates will tell you the Spirit effects salvation in the Christian through the act of regeneration and the Father adopts us into His family to be joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17). Advocates will tell you that Christ will lose none that the Father has given him (John 6:39). Advocates will tell you that if one of Christ's sheep goes astray, Christ will bring him back (Matthew 18:12) because of the very fact that he said himself he will lose none (John 6:39) but will raise up all of his own on the last day (John 6:54) because it is the will of the Father that none of His own will perish (Matthew 18:14). All that being said, advocates will also tell you that if one does go astray to never return, it was because they were never truly a part of the flock to begin with (1 John 2:19).
There is a HUGE difference between what Eternal Security teaches versus what opponents of Eternal Security typically think it teaches.
BTW, I still recommend you go back and study on the origins of the doctrine. You made the claim that it only dates back about 70 years and accredit it to the Baptists. It actually dates back to around the 300's or so and was never really challenged (except for the Catholic stance) until the 1600's.
When Matthew 24:13 is quoted regarding losing your salvation for eternity, both the previous and next verses are never quoted. The period refers to the 'gospel of the kingdom' and this clearly is not this period of the gospel of glad tidings of grace which is the gentile time.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2:21
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2:21
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5
Crazyguy19
Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2011
- Messages
- 11
Hebrews 13:4-6 (King James Version)
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30246">4</sup>Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30247">5</sup>Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30248">6</sup>So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
If this verse says that God will never leave you nor forsake you.... then how can you lose your salvation? If you can lose it then.... God would have put a condition on the "Never leave thee, nor forsake thee." part... but He didn't. Plus He wouldn't have inspired the writer to use the word "never" which means not at all and never in the Greek.
I would like to know what all of you say to this.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30246">4</sup>Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30247">5</sup>Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-30248">6</sup>So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
If this verse says that God will never leave you nor forsake you.... then how can you lose your salvation? If you can lose it then.... God would have put a condition on the "Never leave thee, nor forsake thee." part... but He didn't. Plus He wouldn't have inspired the writer to use the word "never" which means not at all and never in the Greek.
I would like to know what all of you say to this.
Mr Rojocolo
The doctrine of eternal security as you call it. Is this a Biblical doctrine in terms of "once saved always saved".
From the standpoint of God's perfect plan, He most certainly does not lose any who go astray. He does go out and find them and bring them back to the fold.
But the crucial problem with this so called Biblical doctrine is SIN.
We are not talking about going astray, we are talking about wilfull disobedience (sin).
Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"
This is as clear as a bell, sin willfully with no repentance and there comes a time when the sacrifice is no longer available.
The person sinning previously was under grace but later they were not. It is useless to imagine that the person was originally not a Christian. Because the person was under the sacrifice for sins.
Theology is no shield against this clear warning. God's plan was perfect, man's response of course is imperfect. Look hard and long at church history, it is full of division.
The doctrine of eternal security as you call it. Is this a Biblical doctrine in terms of "once saved always saved".
From the standpoint of God's perfect plan, He most certainly does not lose any who go astray. He does go out and find them and bring them back to the fold.
But the crucial problem with this so called Biblical doctrine is SIN.
We are not talking about going astray, we are talking about wilfull disobedience (sin).
Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"
This is as clear as a bell, sin willfully with no repentance and there comes a time when the sacrifice is no longer available.
The person sinning previously was under grace but later they were not. It is useless to imagine that the person was originally not a Christian. Because the person was under the sacrifice for sins.
Theology is no shield against this clear warning. God's plan was perfect, man's response of course is imperfect. Look hard and long at church history, it is full of division.
