Of God and "gods"

[EphremHagos]

Given the First Cause, a.k.a., "the God of the living, not of the dead", "source of life" and purpose for the lives of the great pioneers of immortality such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Ex. 3: 5-6; Matt. 22: 29-32); and Moses and Elijah (Matt. 17: 1-13; Luke 9: 28-36), etc., what is the single known criterion in the Scriptures by which people are called "gods"?

(John 10: 34-36)

 

[Diamondlight]

My answer would be grace.

Jesus is God by nature.

 

[Boanerges]

Joh 10:34 JesusG2424 answeredG611 them,G846 IsG2076 it notG3756 writtenG1125 inG1722 yourG5216 law,G3551 IG1473 said,G2036 Ye areG2075 gods?G2316


The scripture you are referring to using Theos without the definite article ho' preceding it it simply means great judge, magistrate, authority.

 

[EphremHagos]

My answer would be grace.

Jesus is God by nature.

And you will be right!

However, it will be more helpful to reduce "grace" into simpler terms if possible.

 

[EphremHagos]

Joh 10:34 JesusG2424 answeredG611 them,G846 IsG2076 it notG3756 writtenG1125 inG1722 yourG5216 law,G3551 IG1473 said,G2036 Ye areG2075 gods?G2316


The scripture you are referring to using Theos without the definite article ho' preceding it it simply means great judge, magistrate, authority.

Why, then, is the qualification, viz.: "We know that what the scriptures says is true for ever" (v. 35) necessary?

 

[B-A-C]

The verses Jesus is quoting in John 10:34 are from Psalms 82:6 and Isaiah 41:23

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
John 10:35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
John 10:36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

In Jesus case, he is God/the son of God.
In our case, I have taken this just to mean we have eternal life.

 

[EphremHagos]

The verses Jesus is quoting in John 10:34 are from Psalms 82:6 and Isaiah 41:23

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
John 10:35 "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
John 10:36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

In Jesus case, he is God/the son of God.
In our case, I have taken this just to mean we have eternal life.

I agree.

Since "eternal life means knowing Jesus Christ", in terms of his divine ID, a.k.a., "I Am Who I Am" or "life-giving Spirit", i.e., source of life, only thosewho are "born spiritually of the Spirit" in Christ's unique death on the cross are called "gods". PTL.

 

[Boanerges]

Why, then, is the qualification, viz.: "We know that what the scriptures says is true for ever" (v. 35) necessary?

The Word is always true.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
note the lower case g in the above scripture.
New Testament Greek sometimes needs close examination to see what is meant.
theos = god (little g), judge, angel
ho' Theos = Supreme or Most High God
Same word, different grammar, different definition.

A more detailed explanation with specific definitions and specific instances of where they are properly applied is found below:

From the Vines Expository Dictionary of the New Testament:

God

theos (G2316), (I) in the polytheism of the Greeks, denoted "a god or deity," e.g., Act_14:11; Act_19:26; Act_28:6; 1Co_8:5; Gal_4:8.
(II) (a) Hence the word was appropriated by Jews and retained by Christians to denote "the one true God." In the Sept. theos translates (with few exceptions) the Hebrew words Elohim and Jehovah, the former indicating His power and preeminence, the latter His unoriginated, immutable, eternal and self-sustained existence.
In the NT, these and all the other divine attributes are predicated of Him. To Him are ascribed, e.g., His unity, or monism, e.g., Mar_12:29; 1Ti_2:5; self-existence, Joh_5:26; immutability, Jam_1:17; eternity, Rom_1:20; universality, Mat_10:29; Act_17:26-28; almighty power Mat_19:26; infinite knowledge, Act_2:23; Act_15:18; Rom_11:33, creative power, Rom_11:36; 1Co_8:6; Eph_3:9; Rev_4:11; Rev_10:6; absolute holiness, 1Pe_1:15; 1Jo_1:5; righteousness, Joh_17:25; faithfulness, 1Co_1:9; 1Co_10:13; 1Th_5:24; 2Th_3:3; 1Jo_1:9; love, 1Jo_4:8, 1Jo_4:16; mercy, Rom_9:15, Rom_9:18; truthfulness, Tit_1:2; Heb_6:18. See GOOD, No. 1 (b).
(b) The divine attributes are likewise indicated or definitely predicated of Christ, e.g., Mat_20:18-19; Joh_1:1-3; Joh_1:18, RV, marg.; Joh_5:22-29; Joh_8:58; Joh_14:6; Joh_17:22-24; Joh_20:28; Rom_1:4; Rom_9:5; Phi_3:21; Col_1:15; Col_2:3; Tit_2:13, RV; Heb_1:3; Heb_13:8; 1Jo_5:20; Rev_22:12, Rev_22:13.
(c) Also of the Holy Spirit, e.g., Mat_28:19; Luk_1:35; Joh_14:16; Joh_15:26; Joh_16:7-14; Rom_8:9, Rom_8:26; 1Co_12:11; 2Co_13:14.
(d) Theos is used (1) with the definite article, (2) without (i.e., as an anarthrous noun). "The English may or may not have need of the article in translation. But that point cuts no figure in the Greek idiom. Thus in Act_27:23 ('the God whose I am,' RV) the article points out the special God whose Paul is, and is to be preserved in English. In the very next verse (ho theos) we in English do not need the article" (A. T. Robertson, Gram. of Greek, NT, p. 758).
As to this latter it is usual to employ the article with a proper name, when mentioned a second time. There are, of course, exceptions to this, as when the absence of the article serves to lay stress upon, or give precision to, the character or nature of what is expressed in the noun. A notable instance of this is in Joh_1:1, "and the Word was God"; here a double stress is on theos, by the absence of the article and by the emphatic position. To translate it literally, "a god was the Word," is entirely misleading. Moreover, that "the Word" is the subject of the sentence, exemplifies the rule that the subject is to be determined by its having the article when the predicate is anarthrous (without the article). In Rom_7:22, in the phrase "the law of God," both nouns have the article; in Rom_7:25, neither has the article. This is in accordance with a general rule that if two nouns are united by the genitive case (the "of" case), either both have the article, or both are without. Here, in the first instance, both nouns, "God" and "the law" are definite, whereas in Rom_7:25 the word "God" is not simply titular; the absence of the article stresses His character as lawgiver.
Where two or more epithets are applied to the same person or thing, one article usually serves for both (the exceptions being when a second article lays stress upon different aspects of the same person or subject, e.g., Rev_1:17). In Tit_2:13 the RV correctly has "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ." Moulton (Prol., p. 84) shows, from papyri writings of the early Christian era, that among Greek-speaking Christians this was "a current formula" as applied to Christ. So in 2Pe_1:1 (cf. 2Pe_1:11; 2Pe_3:18).
In the following titles God is described by certain of His attributes; the God of glory, Act_7:2; of peace, Rom_15:33; Rom_16:20; Phi_4:9; 1Th_5:23; Heb_13:20; of love and peace, 2Co_13:11; of patience and comfort, Rom_15:5; of all comfort, 2Co_1:3; of hope, Rom_15:13; of all grace, 1Pe_5:10. These describe Him, not as in distinction from other persons, but as the source of all these blessings; hence the employment of the definite article. In such phrases as "the God of a person," e.g., Mat_22:32, the expression marks the relationship in which the person stands to God and God to him.
(e) In the following the nominative case is used for the vocative, and always with the article; Mar_15:34; Luk_18:11, Luk_18:13; Joh_20:28; (Act_4:24 in some mss.); Heb_1:8; Heb_10:7.
(f) The phrase "the things of God" (translated literally or otherwise) stands for (1) His interests, Mat_16:23; Mar_8:33; (2) His counsels, 1Co_2:11; (3) things which are due to Him, Mat_22:21; Mar_12:17; Luk_20:25. The phrase "things pertaining to God," Rom_15:17; Heb_2:17; Heb_5:1, describes, in the Heb. passages, the sacrificial service of the priest; in the Rom. passage the gospel ministry as an offering to God.
(III) The word is used of divinely appointed judges in Israel, as representing God in His authority, Joh_10:34, quoted from Psa_82:6, which indicates that God Himself sits in judgment on those whom He has appointed. The application of the term to the Devil, 2Co_4:4, and the belly, Phi_3:19, virtually places these instances under (I).

 

[Diamondlight]

And you will be right!

However, it will be more helpful to reduce "grace" into simpler terms if possible.

Oh i see. I didn't realise you were asking a question that you already had an answer to.

 

[EphremHagos]

Oh i see. I didn't realise you were asking a question that you already had an answer to.

Two heads are better than one. (Mark 6: 7-13)

I believe that asking a question is a standard practice for testing the validity of one's answer through comparison of notes for elimination of errors and reachcing of agreement.

Hope you agree.

 

[EphremHagos]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation!

I am convinced that the "different grammar and definition" are compatible with the highest possible sense of "gods", second only to "the living God".

 

[Boanerges]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation!

I am convinced that the "different grammar and definition" are compatible with the highest possible sense of "gods", second only to "the living God".

That would make you a Mormon- LOL! Seriously- do you think the Israelites were to be God's? I will demonstrate to you that every major translation and all of the major commentators (working with the original manuscripts) disagree with you on this my friend.


Can you find a multiple translations that use a capitol G or even better a manuscript that uses the definite article ho' ?

(ABP+) IG1473 said,G2036 You are gods,G2316 G1510.2.5 andG2532 [2sonsG5207 3of the highestG5310 1all].G3956

(ASV) I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.

(BBE) I said, You are gods; all of you are the sons of the Most High:

(Brenton) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you children of the Most High.

(CEV) "I, the Most High God, say that all of you are gods and also my own children.

(Darby) I have said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High;

(DRB) I have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High.

(ERV) I, God Most High, say, "You are gods, my own sons.

(ESV) I said, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;

(GNB) 'You are gods,' I said; 'all of you are children of the Most High.'

(GW) I said, "You are gods. You are all sons of the Most High.

(IHOT+) אניH589 I אמרתיH559 have said, אלהיםH430 Ye gods; אתםH859 of you ובניH1121 children עליוןH5945 of the most High. כלכם׃H3605 and all

(ISV) "Indeed I said, 'You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High.

(JPS) I said: Ye are godlike beings, and all of you sons of the Most High.

(KJV) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

(KJV+) IH589 have said,H559 Ye are gods;H430 and allH3605 of youH859 are childrenH1121 of the most High.H5945

(LITV) I have said, You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High.

(MKJV) I have said, You are gods; and all of you sons of the Most High.

(RV) I said, Ye are gods, and all of you sons of the Most High.

(Webster) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.


I have found 1 translations which does actually use the capitol G. It is the Young's Literal Translation which is widely considered a "paraphrased" translation:
(YLT) I--I have said, `Gods ye are , And sons of the Most High--all of you,


Bible translators read and write Hebrew and Greek manuscripts like you and I would read a newspaper. That being said lets see what some of the writers of Bible Commentaries (also well versed in ancient Greek and Hebrew) have to say:

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible
Psalms 82:6-8

We have here,
I. Earthly gods abased and brought down, Psa_82:6, Psa_82:7. The dignity of their character is acknowledged (Psa_82:6): I have said, You are gods. They have been honoured with the name and title of gods. God himself called them so in the statute against treasonable words Exo_22:28, Thou shalt not revile the gods. And, if they have this style from the fountain of honour, who can dispute it? But what is man, that he should be thus magnified? He called them gods because unto them the word of God came, so our Saviour expounds it (Joh_10:35); they had a commission from God, and were delegated and appointed by him to be the shields of the earth, the conservators of the public peace, and revengers to execute wrath upon those that disturb it, Rom_13:4. All of them are in this sense children of the Most High. God has put some of his honour upon them, and employs them in his providential government of the world, as David made his sons chief rulers. Or, “Because I said, You are gods, you have carried the honour further than was intended and have imagined yourselves to be the children of the Most High,” as the king of Babylon (Isa_14:14), I will be like the Most High, and the king of Tyre (Eze_28:2), Thou hast set thy heart as the heart of God. It is a hard thing for men to have so much honour put upon them by the hand of God, and so much honour paid them, as ought to be by the children of men, and not to be proud of it and puffed up with it, and so to think of themselves above what is meet. But here follows a mortifying consideration: You shall die like men. This may be taken either, 1. As the punishment of bad magistrates, such as judged unjustly, and by their misrule put the foundations of the earth out of course. God will reckon with them, and will cut them off in the midst of their pomp and prosperity; they shall die like other wicked men, and fall like one of the heathen princes (and their being Israelites shall not secure them anymore than their being judges) or like one of the angels that sinned, or like one of the giants of the old world. Compare this with that which Elihu observed concerning the mighty oppressors in his time. Job_34:26, He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others. Let those that abuse their power know that God will take both it and their lives from them; for wherein they deal proudly he will show himself above them. Or, 2. As the period of the glory of all magistrates in this world. Let them not be puffed up with their honour nor neglect their work, but let the consideration of their mortality be both mortifying to their pride and quickening to their duty. “You are called gods, but you have no patent for immortality; you shall die like men, like common men; and like one of them, you, O princes! shall fall.” Note, Kings and princes, all the judges of the earth, though they are gods to us, are men to God, and shall die like men, and all their honour shall be laid in the dust. Mors sceptra ligonibus aequat - Death mingles sceptres with spades.


Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible:
Psalms 82:6

I have said, Ye are gods - See the notes at Psa_82:1. I have given you this title; I have conferred on you an appellation which indicates a greater nearness to God than any other which is bestowed on men - an appellation which implies that you are God’s representatives on earth, and that your decision is, in an important sense, to be regarded as his.
And all of you are children of the Most High - Sons of God. That is, You occupy a rank which makes it proper that you should be regarded as his sons.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Psalms 82:6

Ye are gods - Or, with the prefix of כ ke, the particle of similitude, כאלהים keelohim, “like God.” Ye are my representatives, and are clothed with my power and authority to dispense judgment and justice, therefore all of them are said to be children of the Most High.

 

[Diamondlight]

Two heads are better than one. (Mark 6: 7-13)

I believe that asking a question is a standard practice for testing the validity of one's answer through comparison of notes for elimination of errors and reachcing of agreement.

Hope you agree.

Absolutely!

I shall be reading along with interest to see how you go with that.

 

[EphremHagos]

JOHN 1<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

6. God sent his messenger, a man named John,
7. who came to tell people about the light, so that all should hear the message and believe.
8. He himself was not the light; he came to tell about the light.
9. This was the real light --the light that comes into the world and shines on all mankind.
10. The Word was in the world, and though God made the world through him, yet the world did not recognize him.
11. He came to his own country, but his own people did not receive him.
12. Some, however, did receive him and believe in him; so he gave them the right to become God's children.
13. They did not become God's children by natural means, that is, by being born as the children of a human father; God himself was their Father.

In the introduction to the 4th Gospel, the author focuses on two key words, viz.: "the light" (repeated five times) and "the message" (repeated 2 times), in the space of 8 verses, as executive summary of what will follow.

Jesus Christ reminds the religious Jews, during the Festival of the Dedication of the Temple and follow-up, of the great power of the message only on those who accept and obey the commandments specific to his death on the cross. (John 10: 17-38)

"The real light" is about Christ's characteristic self-revelation of his divine identity and absolute authority in his death on the cross based on but independent of the Scriptures. Seeing the living Christ in his verifiably Spirit-active, perfect and diacritical death on the cross is what accounts for the making of “gods”. (Ibid, 14: 18-21)

 

[lawrenceb]

of God and gods

Given the First Cause, a.k.a., "the God of the living, not of the dead", "source of life" and purpose for the lives of the great pioneers of immortality such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Ex. 3: 5-6; Matt. 22: 29-32); and Moses and Elijah (Matt. 17: 1-13; Luke 9: 28-36), etc., what is the single known criterion in the Scriptures by which people are called "gods"?

(John 10: 34-36)

It is important to understand how "YHWH" (or YHVH) and its derivatives are used in God's Word, to further assist us in rightly understanding scripture and receiving the blessings of this knowledge.

The translators of the King James Bible replaced God's name with an ALL CAPS TITLE. The name for God, "YHWH" (Hebrew word #3068] originally appeared in the Old Testament texts 6,519 times, being printed YH, YW, YHW, and YHH also! But God's name was replaced, at some point in history, with a title. When you see the word "GOD" or "LORD" in all capital letters in the King James Bible, it means this was where the name for God, "YHWH," originally appeared in the Hebrew texts. And when "God" or "Lord" ("god" or "lord"), are spelled in upper and/or lower case letters, they were translated, not from "YHWH," but from the corresponding Hebrew titles of 'God' (Elohim) and 'Lord' (Adonay).

When a text contains the name "YHWH" (GOD or LORD), this word applies only to the One True Creator, and never applies to anyone else. When a text contains the title "God" or "Lord" ("god" or "lord"), it may apply to Almighty God, Christ Jesus, angels, satan, or mere men, depending upon the context.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Hence the small 'g'. Christians are in authority in the Earth.

 

[Michelle71]

There is an order in the kingdom of God.

1. God above all gods.

1Ch 16:25 For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.

2Ch 2:5 And the house which I build is great: for great is our God above all gods.

Psa 96:4 For the LORD is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods.

Psa 97:9 For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

2. At His right hand. Second in command. Jesus.

Exo 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.

Psa 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Psa 118:16 The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.

Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

3. At the right hand of the Word of the Lord who is Jesus

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Just because someone believes there is a divine order set up from God Himself, and they believe there is a higher purpose for our own existence, does not make them a Mormon, nor does it show them
holding to the doctrines of Mormons, JW etc. It means they may be a serious student of the Bible.

 

[Christ4Ever]

My daily verse for today. Just seemed appropriate somehow.
Wouldn't by the virtue that we are a habitation of God through the Holy Spirit define the why and how?
Ephesians 2:22
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


YBIC
C4E