No Shame!

[NetChaplain]

If our faith in the efficacy of Christ’s expiation for the sins of the believer is where it should be, there can be no room for shame. Shame in the believer can reveal a misunderstanding in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus’ full atonement, which is applied at rebirth.

It is completely understandable for the Christian in the outset to feel shame while the presence and workings of the “old man” are progressively realized, but continuing in the shame of it is the result of falling short in the comprehension of two vital elements; the regenerate one will continue to possess sin due to the sin source (old man); and the understanding that sinning (unintentionally) is expected, otherwise there is a prideful hindrance in the learning of God’s Word in the denying of these.

The heart and mind of the believer are to be joyous (as much as lies within us) “in the Lord” (Phil 4:4), which is impossible when beholding a guilt and sadness from sin. This will consistently hinder the thoughtfulness of all we are to be contemplating (v 8). Shame and remorse are rightfully expected during the initial revelation of our sinfulness, but as we (those born again) progress in the paces of the Spirit’s teaching of His Word, we are to eventually understand that God’s forgiveness completely clears one of guilt and shame, for His way is that we are not to be in sin (Rom 8:9)—though sin be in us.

An incomplete (but not absence) understanding concerning God’s forgiveness in Christ presents a veil against a heart of assurance, for if there be forgiveness what place has shame? Where should there be shame when sin (again, unintentional) is foreknown and expected? Otherwise it would be the same as God saying to the believer, “Shame on you for your sin?” Is it to humble one's self in retaining shame for the guilt of sin, which would present an incomplete propitiation; or is it to accept Christ's propitiatory work for a life which has been cleared of the guilt of sin—thus also of its shame?

Shame is for the unsaved, and also for the saved who've yet to understand there is no need for it in salvation. This can result in a "false humility" (2 Cor 2:18), which is usually in conjunction with the law-concept, in that it denies the sufficiency of the Cross-work of Christ by accepting that there must be an additional element beyond His sacrifice to effect the redemption of man!

-NC

 

[B-A-C]

I find it interesting that David felt shame.

Psa 51:1; For the choir director. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.
Psa 51:2; Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity And cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3; For I know my transgressions, And my sin is ever before me.
Psa 51:4; Against You, You only, I have sinned And done what is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge.
Psa 51:5; Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psa 51:6; Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
Psa 51:7; Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 51:8; Make me to hear joy and gladness, Let the bones which You have broken rejoice.
Psa 51:9; Hide Your face from my sins And blot out all my iniquities.
Psa 51:10; Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
Psa 51:12; Restore to me the joy of Your salvation And sustain me with a willing spirit.

I also believe Paul felt shame.

Rom 7:15; For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
Rom 7:16; But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
Rom 7:17; So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Rom 7:18; For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
Rom 7:19; For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
Rom 7:20; But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Rom 7:21; I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
Rom 7:22; For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
Rom 7:23; but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24; Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

It also seem that the sins we commit are forgiven if we confess them, but I find no scriptures that say otherwise.

1Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psa 32:3; When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away Through my groaning all day long.

The Bible seems to warn about feeling no guilt, it talks about people who's conscience is seared over with a branding iron and feel no remorse for what they do.
1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Tim 4:2; by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
1 Tim 4:3; men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

 

[NetChaplain]

I find it interesting that David felt shame.

Psa 51:1; For the choir director. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.

Hi BAC - I agree, and there was right cause for it. The people of God in the prior dispensation had no provision of escaping freedom from the "old man" and thus were still in there sin--yet forgiven when they complied with the Law (Num 15:24, 30). The present dispensation in Christ provides the people of God with the "new man" and thus presents the believer apart from sin (Rom 8:9) through regeneration, which requires the indwelling of the Spirit of God.

I also believe Paul felt shame.

I see no indication of shame in Romans 7 but rather an awareness of the continued presence of the "old man," and the presence of the "new man" which "willed to do good (v 18). This is the new "I" in verses 17 and 20.

It also seem that the sins we commit are forgiven if we confess them, but I find no scriptures that say otherwise.

1 Jn 1:9; If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Confession here is not that of particular sins but of the initial conviction of the Spirit of God in the believer upon rebirth, for the confessing of sin is the result of a regenerate heart, mind and spirit from which proceeds an admittance (confession) that one is a sinner in need of salvation. Christ's atonement (applied at rebirth) and nothing else can procure forgiveness, and confession procures the reassurance in our conscience that "He is faithful and just to forgive . . . and cleanse."

The Bible seems to warn about feeling no guilt, it talks about people who's conscience is seared over with a branding iron and feel no remorse for what they do.
1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons

These are unbelievers (never been regenerated) who are not expected to have the awareness of sin, it's guilt, nor it's shame in being unrepentant. This requires the Spirit's revelation (conviction) to an individual.

 

[B-A-C]

The present dispensation in Christ provides the people of God with the "new man" and thus presents the believer apart from sin (Rom 8:9) through regeneration, which requires the indwelling of the Spirit of God.

Yes "regeneration is correct. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not a once and done thing. It requires continually being filled. ( Tit 3:5; ) The Christian walk requires DAILY taking up
your cross. It isn't a one time thing. ( Luke 9:23; 1 Cor 15:31; )

I see no indication of shame in Romans 7

"Oh wretched man that I am" ( Rom 7:24; ) why would he feel wretched, if he didn't feel guilt? Acknowledging the "old man" in us, is the same thing as guilt. There is no difference.

Confession here is not that of particular sins but of the initial conviction of the Spirit of God in the believer upon rebirth,

No 1st John was written to believers in the church, not new unbelievers. 1Jn chapter 2 mentions "children", "young men" and "fathers". Then it goes on to say this isn't their
physical age, but rather their Christian maturity. Again confession of sin is not a "once and done" thing. It is an on-going confession everytime you sin.

These are unbelievers (never been regenerated) who are not expected to have the awareness of sin, it's guilt, nor it's shame in being unrepentant. This requires the Spirit's revelation (conviction) to an individual.

So no unbelievers ever feel guilt for anything? You start off the message by saying we shouldn't feel gilt, and then you say only Christians are capable of feeling guilt. Hmmmm.

 

[NetChaplain]

Yes "regeneration is correct. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is not a once and done thing. It requires continually being filled. ( Tit 3:5; )

I think we're close here, but it's my understanding that "regeneration" (rebirth) is a single and unalterable occurrence (Rom 11:29), same for "renewing," as both are simultaneous by (of) the "Holy Spirit."

I do agree that the "renewing of your mind" is the situation you've indicated, as in Rom 12:2 and Eph 4:23. These are the works of the Spirit in our minds and hearts which continue to transform them (mind/heart) "from glory to glory" (2 Cor 3:18), which always derive from the regeneration (rebirth) by (of) the Spirit.

 

[james1523]

Regeneration is simply God coming and joining Himself to man.
Signified by a broken branch being grafted into a tree.
There are three regenerations. Regeneration of the spirit at belief (the Spirit joins to our spirit). Regeneration of the soul (mind, emotions) over time (the Spirit fills our mind, emotions), and in future regeneration of the body (the Spirit transfigures mortal body to immortal).
All of these 3 regeneration are by the Spirit.
The infilling of the Spirit is the regeneration of the soul.

 

[NetChaplain]

Regeneration is simply God coming and joining Himself to man.
Signified by a broken branch being grafted into a tree.
There are three regenerations. Regeneration of the spirit at belief (the Spirit joins to our spirit). Regeneration of the soul (mind, emotions) over time (the Spirit fills our mind, emotions), and in future regeneration of the body (the Spirit transfigures mortal body to immortal).
All of these 3 regeneration are by the Spirit.
The infilling of the Spirit is the regeneration of the soul.

I would say there is a single occurrence for "regeneration" of the spirit; a single occurrence for the "resurrection" of the body; but an ongoing "renewal" of the mind, which is the only one which admits in degrees.

Same as "being transformed by the renewing of your mind" (Rom 12:2), on which Gill comments: "Which regards not the first work of conversion and renovation, for in this sense these persons were transformed, metamorphosed, changed, and renewed already. But the after progress and carrying on the work of renovation, the renewing of them day by day in the spirit of their minds; see Ephesians 4:23."