New Jerusalem...

[KingdomSeeker]

Galatians 4:26
"But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Revelation 21:9-10
"Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,


My question: Heavenly Jerusalem, is it Our Mother? or is it US? or is it technicaly neither and its JUST the Bride,The Lambs wife, as Revelation puts it?


I was always taught that WE, the church are the bride of Christ, However we are also called the BODY.

So, Im not totaly confused, but i see that There is allot of error in mans teachings. Of course, because all men are liars and ONLY GOD is Truth.

But do you see my quandry?

We Are Christs Body. So Jesus is not going to mary himself is he?

Heavenly Jerusalem(where we will live, and where our righteousness(which is technicaly Gods) will be the bridal garments)Is The Bride.

SO first off:

The bride of the Lamb, is Heavenly Jerusalem, The Mother of US, meaning the heavenly bearer of Our promise as Gods Children, So our Promise IS Eternal Life(which is Jesus 1 John 1:2) in the eternal heavenly city, both of which are in US allready, and slowly conforming us to God. Ok I get that.

So that brings me to the teaching where "WE, are the Bride of Christ"

The scriptures NEVER, say that we are "The Bride of Christ"

Paul says he wants to present the church(or at least the people HE is writing to), AS A bride,
but never says that the Complete body of Jesus, IS the Bride.
Its never said.

So my questions are(sorry for the rambling "Stream of consciousness" post, im kinda typing as im thinking...ha!)

1.) Is the Heavenly Jerusalem, Both? Our mother(spiritual, NOT lieteral) and our Lords bride?

2.) Where does it say in scripture that we are "The Bride of Christ"?

Wondering if anyone has any word on this. Thank you in advance. Jesus bless you.

 

[David777]

I need more information

Hello, could you expand on your reference to the US.

You said

"My question: Heavenly Jerusalem, is it Our Mother? or is it US? or is it technicaly neither and its JUST the Bride,The Lambs wife, as Revelation puts it?"

I always saw the spiritual Israel as the collection of Jew and Gentile believers. Therefore, the new Jerusalem as the capital of the spiritual Israel.

But, the "US" I am unsure how you arrived at this?

This is remarkable?

 

[MelodyC]

Context always helps!

GAL 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

"Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband."

GAL 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." 31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Jerusalem as mother is representing the Covenant that was to bring forth Saved Believers through the promise given the Abraham and Sarah, which came to us through Isacc. That is Jesus Christ. We are children of the FREE Jerusalem not the slave woman.

Does that help you?

 

[KingdomSeeker]

Jerusalem as mother is representing the Covenant that was to bring forth Saved Believers through the promise given the Abraham and Sarah, which came to us through Isacc. That is Jesus Christ. We are children of the FREE Jerusalem not the slave woman.

Does that help you?

No. I understood the context of galatians.

Revelation is figurative as well.


My question was more if The bride is new Jerusalem. And the Church is the bride. HOW is the Bride the mother of us all?

Maybe im just needlessly confusing myself..hahah...becasue i understand what Galatians is saying, and i also understand what Revelations is saying..

But thank you very much anyway MelodyC.

 

[Hekuran]

Confusion about US: you were not saying the United States, were you?

All the symbolic language in the Bible has its limits. We are used to Jesus being the Lamb of God, and the Lion of Judah. If you try to put these two images together it will give some strange results. But the images do different things in different contexts.

In some respects the church is like a bride, in other respects like a body.

 

[KingdomSeeker]

Confusion about US: you were not saying the United States, were you?

Hahah. No! not at all.

All the symbolic language in the Bible has its limits. We are used to Jesus being the Lamb of God, and the Lion of Judah. If you try to put these two images together it will give some strange results. But the images do different things in different contexts.

In some respects the church is like a bride, in other respects like a body

Understood thank you. It just caught me off gaurd when i saw that heavenly jerusalem was called our Mother, but then it was also called the bride. WE are the bride. But then i tried looking for a verse where it says we ARE the bride, and there is none(we meaning all called out followers of Jesus) at least none directly.

but again thankyou.


Oh and Daniel777. By US I just ment the called out ones. be they Jew saved by the blood of the lamb, or be they gentile saved by the blood of the lamb, there is no difference.

 

[MelodyC]

No. I understood the context of galatians.

Revelation is figurative as well.


My question was more if The bride is new Jerusalem. And the Church is the bride. HOW is the Bride the mother of us all?

Maybe im just needlessly confusing myself..hahah...becasue i understand what Galatians is saying, and i also understand what Revelations is saying..

But thank you very much anyway MelodyC.

I don't think he is talking about the New Jerusalem.

Remember it does say figuratively at the start of these verses. So I wouldn't be trying to equate the Bride Church to the Mother Jerusalem statement.

REV 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

Also you will note Jerusalem is being described as BRIDE not Christ's Bride. The city looks as beautiful as a bride.

 

[Jaareshiah]

The "Jerusalem above" and the "New Jerusalem" are not the same. At Galatians 4:27, concerning the "Jerusalem above", the apostle Paul applies the words of Isaiah 54:1 to "the free woman", in which Isaiah 54:1 says: "Cry out joyfully, you barren woman that did not give birth! Become cheerful with a joyful outcry and cry shrilly, you that had no childbirth pains, for the sons of the desolated one are more numerous than the sons of the woman with a husbandly owner,” Jehovah has said."

Thus, the reproach and shame of the "barren woman" are to be forgotten, for she will bring many sons, all of them taught by Jehovah God.(Isa 54:13) Paul expressed that both he and those of the Galatian congregation were among her "children"(Gal 4:28, 31), whereas the nation of fleshly Israel "corresponds with the Jerusalem today"(Gal 4:25) and are without God's favor.

Jesus, in the spring of 32 C.E., told the Jews that "no man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him; and I will resurrect him in the last day," and then quoted from Isaiah 54:13 regarding the "sons" of the symbolic "barren woman"(Isa 54:1), that "it is written in the Prophets, ' And they (her "sons") will all be taught by Jehovah.' Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me."(John 6:44, 45) Thus, this once "barren woman" is to have "numerous...sons" that are "taught by Jehovah."

Who though, is this symbolic "woman" that Jesus and the apostle Paul spoke of ? Who is this, that God "is causing the barren woman to dwell in a house as a joyful mother of sons" ?(Ps 113:9) The apostle Paul says that Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Hagar, and Ishmael figured in a symbolic drama, in which Isaac represented those who had heavenly hopes, including Paul himself. Paul then states that their “mother” is “the Jerusalem above.” Jesus Christ calls these his “brothers,” indicating they have the same mother. (Heb 2:11) This provides a basis for identifying the “woman” of Genesis 3:15 with “the Jerusalem above.”(Gal 4:21-29)

This "woman" or "Jerusalem above" represents Jehovah God's entire congregation of his loyal spirit servants, just as the "Jerusalem today" pictures the entire nation of fleshly Israel, which was cast off and replaced with a spiritual nation.(Matt 23:37-39) Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders, because of their rejection of him as the "chief cornerstone": "This is why I say to you, The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits."(Matt 21:42, 43)

In an instant in time, at Pentecost 33 C.E.(Acts 2:4), this barren woman" is granted the privilege of having 144,000 spiritual sons (Rev 14:1-5), a new "nation", for Jehovah God is seen as having a symbolic "wife". That this symbolic "barren woman" is to have a large "family" is seen at Isaiah 54:1, 2, which says: "Jehovah has said “Make the place of your tent more spacious. And let them stretch out the tent cloths of your grand tabernacle. Do not hold back. Lengthen out your tent cords, and make those tent pins of yours strong."

This symbolic "woman" is also prophetically spoken of at Isaiah 60, that will "shed forth light, for your light has come and upon you the very glory of Jehovah has shone forth."(Isa 60:1) It further says that "darkness itself will cover the earth, and thick gloom the national groups; but upon you Jehovah will shine forth, and upon you his own glory will be seen. And nations will certainly go to your light, and kings to the brightness of your shining forth."(Isa 60:2, 3) Through this "woman" comes forth spiritual "light" or a deep understanding of God's word, the Bible, unlocking such as the "mysteries of the kingdom."(Matt 13:11, King James Bible)

Her spiritual "sons" are called "New Jerusalem", which "descends out of heaven from...God."(Rev 3:12) New Jerusalem is seen as "coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."(Rev 21:2) Thus, New Jerusalem or the 144,000 spiritual sons that are chosen from the earth (Rev 5:9, 10) and anointed with holy spirit (Rom 8:14-17) to become "kings and priests" in God's kingdom, is also called the bride of Christ.