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New Jerusalem revisted

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Loyal
The first time we actually read the word "New Jerusalem" is in Revelation3 in the portion that
is talking about the church of Philadelphia.

Rev 3:10 "Because you have obeyed My command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.
Rev 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take away your crown.
Rev 3:12 All who are victorious will become pillars in the Temple of My God, and they will never have to leave it. And I will write on them the name of My God, and they will be citizens in the city of My God—the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven from My God. And I will also write on them My new name.

Philadelphia is of course, one of the two churches that God did not have anything against.
Some take verse 10 above to mean the church (or at least some in the church) will not have to go through the tribulation.

Verse 11 is often taken by non-Calvinists to mean that your crown can be taken away from you.

Finally we get to verse 12.... (these people, whoever they are) will be pillars in God's Temple.
Also... they will be citizens in the New Jerusalem (that comes down from heaven - verse 12)
Salem... means peace. Melchizedek was the king of Salem. (Gen 14:18; Heb 7:1-2; )
(or the king of peace). Jeru - means new. So Jerusalem means "new peace". Ironically few cities have
seen less peace than Jerusalem. New Jerusalem would be new-new peace.

In Rev 21:2; we see the city - New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.
Notice this doesn't happen until the "old" heaven and earth have already passed away.
(Rev 21:1-2; )

There are some Christians who believe in something called "kingdom now". They believe most of the events
of Revelation have already happened. They take it all as spiritual. Most do not believe the New Jerusalem is a physical place. However we see this cannot be the case because the New Jerusalem does not appear
until the new heaven and new earth arrive. Also this does not happen until after the millennial reign.
(Jesus reigns on the current earth, not the new earth). Satan rebels again the millennial reign.
Satan will not be around to rebel when the new earth arrives. There has never been a time when Jesus reigned in peace on the earth for 1,000 years since Adam and Eve. The other problem with this is that spiritual places do not have physical dimensions. Yet the New Jerusalem has physical dimensions.

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
Jesus is currently in heaven at the right hand of God the Father. Nether is reigning on earth right now. They only reign in the hearts of Christians here in earth.
The New Jerusalem is called "the wife" - The bride of the lamb (the lamb being Jesus).

Rev 21:9; Then one of the seven angels who held the seven bowls containing the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come with me! I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
Rev 21:10; So he took me in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

The city of course has twelve gates guarded by twelve angels. The names of the twelve tribes are written on the gates.

Rev 21:12; The city wall was broad and high, with twelve gates guarded by twelve angels. And the names of the twelve tribes of Israel were written on the gates.
Rev 21:13; There were three gates on each side—east, north, south, and west.

The city also has twelve foundation stones. On the these twelve stones are written the names of the twelve apostles.

Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb

The city is roughly 1,460 miles long, 1,460 miles wide,and 1,460 miles high depending which Bible translation you read.

Rev 21:16 When he measured it, he found it was a square, as wide as it was long. In fact, its length and width and height were each 1,400 miles. (NLT)
Rev 21:17 Then he measured the walls and found them to be 216 feet thick (according to the human standard used by the angel). (NLT)

The walls are 70 yards thick or 216 feet. This is a huge city. Over a hundred and fifty times taller than the highest mountain on earth currently.
This city is larger than the entire state of Alaska.
The 12 foundation stones are each made of a precious jewel. It will be interesting to see which apostle is which stone.

Rev 21:19; The wall of the city was built on foundation stones inlaid with twelve precious stones: the first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
Rev 21:20; the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst.

... to be continued ...
 
Loyal
For those who have done in depth studies on Mount Zion, we see a lot of similarities between mount Zion and the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:24; The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the world will enter the city in all their glory.
Rev 21:25; Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there.
Rev 21:26; And all the nations will bring their glory and honor into the city.

Psa 48:1; A song. A psalm of the descendants of Korah. How great is the LORD, how deserving of praise, in the city of our God, which sits on His holy mountain!
Psa 48:2; It is high and magnificent; the whole earth rejoices to see it! Mount Zion, the holy mountain, is the city of the great King!
Psa 48:3; God Himself is in Jerusalem's towers, revealing Himself as its defender.

Psa 50:2; From Mount Zion, the perfection of beauty, God shines in glorious radiance.

Psa 76:1; For the choir director: A psalm of Asaph. A song to be accompanied by stringed instruments. God is honored in Judah; His name is great in Israel.
Psa 76:2; Jerusalem is where He lives; Mount Zion is His home.

Isa 1:26; Then I will give you good judges again and wise counselors like you used to have. Then Jerusalem will again be called the Home of Justice and the Faithful City."
Isa 1:27; Zion will be restored by justice; those who repent will be revived by righteousness.

Rev 22:2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

This is similar to Ezekiel 47.

Eze 47:12; "By the river on its bank, on one side and on the other, will grow all kinds of trees for food. Their leaves will not wither and their fruit will not fail. They will bear every month because their water flows from the sanctuary, and their fruit will be for food and their leaves for healing."

There are dozens more like this.. this is by no means an exhaustive comparison.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
I briefly mentioned something called "Kingdom now" theology above. I personally see several problems with this theology.
Not everyone who subscribes to "Kingdom now" is in exact agreement to what that means.
For example they say New Jerusalem is only spiritual, and it's already here. They say Jesus and God are already reigning on the earth.
Some go so far as to say this is heaven. If you have Jesus in your heart and you're born again, you're already in heaven. (not simply the kingdom of heaven on earth).
Some even believe this is the heaven you go to when you die a physical death. I'm not exactly sure, but it sounds like you are something of a ghost wandering around the
earth, witnessing events here. (some even say we will "influence" events here on the earth after we die).

However heaven is not earth, and the earth is not heaven. The kingdom of heaven does partially exist on the physical earth. But that doesn't mean the earth is heaven.
John 14:2-3; Jesus says he is going to prepare a place for us. Obviously the earth is already prepared for people to live. So this place isn't the earth.
Verse 2 above says there are many "dwelling places" - King James version says "Many mansions". There were already many dwelling places on the earth when Jesus was here,
so it's unlikely He was talking about the earth.

1 Cor 2:9; but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."

Now of course this could mean things God gives us here in this life, but more likely it also means what God gives us in the after-life. I think heaven will be an amazing place,
that we can't even imagine how wonderful it will be there. If heaven is simply this dirty, sinful earth... it doesn't give much incentive to want to go there.
I've even found some Christians who believe that when we die we become angels, and sit on clouds (with wings, and a harp) and look down on the earth.
Of course in the Bible, angels are not humans, humans are not angels and neither even becomes the other. .. what does all that have to do with the New Jerusalem??
Simply to say that earth is not the New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Obviously there are unclean things here on the earth, there are liars and abominations on the earth... so obviously this is not the New Jerusalem.

Rev 22:1; Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
Rev 22:2; in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3; There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;

Rev 22:4; they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5; And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.

A lady that my wife is friends with believes that heaven will be full of bars/pubs and that
we will all be fellow-shipping with drinks in our hands. It's interesting what some people think heaven and the New Jerusalem will be like.
 
Loyal
Isa 11:6; And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the young goat, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them.
Isa 11:7; Also the cow and the bear will graze, Their young will lie down together, And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8; The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
Isa 11:9; They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10; Then in that day The nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples; And His resting place will be glorious.

Some take these verses to be about heaven or the New Jerusalem. Another popular passage in Isaiah is ...

Isa 65:17; "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
Isa 65:18; "But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness.
Isa 65:19; "I will also rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in My people; And there will no longer be heard in her The voice of weeping and the sound of crying.
Isa 65:20; "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, Or an old man who does not live out his days; For the youth will die at the age of one hundred And the one who does not reach the age of one hundred Will be thought accursed.
Isa 65:21; "They will build houses and inhabit them; They will also plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
Isa 65:22; "They will not build and another inhabit, They will not plant and another eat; For as the lifetime of a tree, so will be the days of My people, And My chosen ones will wear out the work of their hands.
Isa 65:23; "They will not labor in vain, Or bear children for calamity; For they are the offspring of those blessed by the LORD, And their descendants with them.
Isa 65:24; "It will also come to pass that before they call, I will answer; and while they are still speaking, I will hear.
Isa 65:25; "The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.

Finally I will leave you with this thought. No where in the Bible does it say humans will dwell in heaven.
The only three people taken up to heaven were Enoch, Elijah, and Jesus. Some take this to mean we will live in the New Jerusalem, or perhaps also on the "new" earth.
(Mormons believe we all get our own planet, and we get to be the "god" of that planet). (Kind of a pyramid scheme of becoming a god?) While I don't believe that we ever become God (or even "a god") it may be
that God will reveal all of creation and the universe to us in the after-life. What else do we have to do for eternity, beside worship God?

Rev 21:4; and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
 
Moderator
Staff Member
No where in the Bible does it say humans will dwell in heaven.
Dear Brother.

I guess a lot of it has to do with what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5: 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

If we take this verse as it is. Then the thought would be that if the Lord is in Heaven. Then that's where the believer will be. If he's reigning here on earth. Then we'll be here.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
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Loyal
Rev 20:44 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

I know some take 2 Cor 5:8; to happen immediately upon death. But I am not convinced. I think I will still be with my body
even though I am "asleep". I believe the resurrection is the soul, not the body. (We get new glorified bodies).
 
Moderator
Staff Member
I know some take 2 Cor 5:8; to happen immediately upon death. But I am not convinced. I think I will still be with my body
even though I am "asleep". I believe the resurrection is the soul, not the body. (We get new glorified bodies).
Which is possible brother. Still, when Moses showed with Elijah on what is called the Mount of Transfiguration. It makes me wonder if not heaven then where?. "And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him." Matthew 17:2-3

I also look and wonder on the use of Paradise of which our Lord mentioned to the thief might be a specific location in heaven or even within New Jerusalem itself (Before ascending to Earth and currently being built?) and mentioned one other time in Revelation. "And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." Luke 23:43, 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.' Revelation 2:7

Great wonder with this brother! As it should be when looking at what God has planned for us!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Loyal
When a person becomes "born again" and is "translated" into the Kingdom of his dear Son, what Kingdom would that be?
Is it not the same Kingdom where all of the body of Christ is right now, or does God have a "separate" Kingdom where people are grouped together awaiting a special time? The Bible tells us where this Kingdom is to where we have already come to.

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
 

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