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Names Jesus is Identified by.

Discussion in 'Evidence & Prophecy' started by Lanolin, May 12, 2017.

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  1. #41 Lanolin, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2018 at 7:54 AM
    Again you havent read your bible because revelation talks about the lambs wrath. Ruling with a rod of iron (not devouring) like the good shepherd.

    What happens is the plagues destroy the enemies which the angels release...it is not the lion.

    In fact the beast will even be destroyed with the lake of fire. One of the four beasts is like a lion.

    People please read the entire book of revelation not just pick and choose bits to mean what they want to mean.

    Have a look at revelation 4:7. Even the beast that is like a lion bows before the lamb. Only the lamb is worthy.

    Reading chapter 5 do the beasts bow down before the lamb? Yes they do. Verse 8!

    Lets also look at the marriage supper of the lamb (its not the supper of the lion!) in Revelation 19

    Now I would post the entire chapter just to make it really obvious and you will see but at the moment I cant do it here. Am I being remisss in presuming that everyone has a copy of this book?

    Who is sitting on the horse and who is he making war with...the beast yea?

    Does he go and eat the beast? Well no out of his mouth goes a sharp sword and smites the nations. Does he go and eat the flesh of his enemies. Well no actually it says the fowls eat them. Its not the lion! Who is the beast...

    What do we know of lions and lambs, lions eat lambs dont they? That is their nature. If you stuck a lamb in The lions den what would happen. Well it doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

    Who is God on the side of...well we know He is the good shepherd right. Is he going to let his sheep and lambs be devoured by the lion? I think not! Is he bigger than any lion? Sure! He can stop the lions mouth.

    And even if the lamb is slain (and who exactly kills the lamb?) well guess what the lamb rises again! Does this lamb ever turn into a lion? Um..nowhere in the bible does it say that.
     
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  2. All the logic and arguments don't change what the Bible says. You can debate it, you can refute it, you can twist it..
    But in the end.. it still says...

    Rev 5:5; and one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.”

    You don't have to like it... but that is what it says. No amount of arguing is going to change that.
     
    Born Again 2004 likes this.
  3. Perhaps what we are looking for is the final result. I don't pretend to understand all of these things, but consider these few things:

    "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox." Isaiah 11:6-7

    "No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:
    And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away." Isaiah 35:9-10

    By no lion, I think it means no more beastly lion nature in man or beast. This is part of what needs to be overcome in each of us to qualify for the rewards to overcomers as per Revelation chapters 2 & 3.

    What has happened, or is to happen, to the lion according to those verse in Isaiah? Is it not the beastly nature of man in him was already killed? A lion is a beast, probably being or representing one of the worst of man's beasts.

    First Jesus became like us by taking on the beasts of men [temptations] in order to do something that no other man was qualified to do, kill all of his own beasts [temptations as per I John 2:16] as a man so that other men could do the same [kill their own beasts] and become like Him:

    "Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
    She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2

    For man is a beast, or has beasts, or has a beastly nature, that must be changed.

    "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

    But then also there is the promise for those who have killed all of their beasts:

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2


    The Lion in Rev 5:5 is perhaps as Jesus became for really only a short moment to do what only a clean man without sin and without beastly ways could do. No one else qualified. Consider what he did by coming down into man's hell and taking on the beastly nature of a man and then paid a terrible price so that other men could become like Him.

    "Mine age is departed, and is removed from me as a shepherd's tent: I have cut off like a weaver my life: he will cut me off with pining sickness: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.
    I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me." Isaiah 38:12-13

    What are our bones? They are our framework which supports all of the ways of the flesh. What of Jesus?

    Carnal lions break the bones of their prey with their powerful jaws and teeth. in the Jesus needed to be a lion to break the ways of men.

    Consider:

    "But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
    But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
    And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
    For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken." John 19:33-36

    So our bones [our sinful ways] must be broken, but Jesus' bones, the Way and the Truth of God would not and could not be broken. As part of His Body, will we not be His bones for our support, our new Way?

    "And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
    The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD." Isaiah 65:24-25

    No more lion nor ways of a lion!

    Jesus was a Lion for a moment, but He has already killed his beasts, including that lion nature. We must do the same and the means through the Word and Holy Spirit has been provided so that we can be like Him.
     
  4. @amadeus2

    You had me till this.........
    If you are saying that God will no longer have the attributes associated in Scripture to those of a lion. If you are in truth saying this, then I must disagree. God does not change. If you are saying He will longer need to use the attributes associated with the name Lion. Then we can look throughout scripture and come up many more names that we believe no longer will be applicable to what they represent in Christ Jesus.

    However, not knowing all the future that Eternity that God has created for us to live and exist in. I will not say this of Him either.

    Love you brother! You do make one meditate on Scripture and how we utilize it for increase in the knowledge of Him! I Thank-you for what you have written. Much still to meditate on!

    With the Love of Christ Jesus.
    YBIC
    Nick
    <><
     
  5. No, God does not change, but the man Jesus changed:

    "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

    Jesus was tempted in all points as a man. This means he had the ways which if followed would lead to sin. He followed them NOT, but rather killed the beastly nature. Perhaps all of the Lion is not dead, but any part of that Lion in Him that was beastly was killed. The same thing must happen to us. There are to be lions, but they will no longer kill other creatures and they will eat straw.


    Give God all of the glory my friend. We are all of us in Christ to increase in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man.
     
  6. Interesting amadeus but I propose that Jesus as the lamb was slain by the lion which was not himself, but the devil, who did not triumph as supposed because the lamb rose again and took the throne.

    Everyone assumes the lion is the king but he is only king of the beasts (along with eagles, leopards and bears) representing the carnal nature as carnivorous creatures.

    Jesus let himself be sacrificed and slaughtered. This is hard for people to accept. But it happened. You only have to watch a lion..have you ever seen one, maybe on safari, tear a lamb to pieces. However this lamb (Jesus) satisified the lions hunger...and stopped the lions mouth. The lion can only roar but cant bite and devour the sheep anymore.
     
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  7. Here are a few more I found interesting:-

    The Names & Titles of Jesus

    A God

    Apostle

    Appolon

    Abbadan

    Image of God

    Firstborn

    The Word

    The man

    Shiloh

    Son of God

    High Priest

    Only-begotten

    The Seed

    The Teacher

    Prince of peace

    Wonderful Counselor

    Mighty god

    Eternal Father

    Second Adam

    The Christ

    Shepherd

    Lion of the tribe of Judea

    Commander

    Master

    Lord

    The Messiah

    Melchizedek

    King of kings

    Lord of lords

    Angel of the abyss

    Leader

    Mediator

    The Way

    The Life

    The Truth

    Carpenter

    The Nazarene

    The Resurrection

    The Head

    Just a few.
    BT
     
    Lanolin likes this.
  8. Rev 9:11; They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.

    These two aren't Jesus.
     
  9. Why?
    BT
     
  10. Jesus isn't an angel.

    Heb 1:2; in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
    Heb 1:4; having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
    Heb 1:5; For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?
    Heb 1:6; And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, "AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."
    Heb 1:7; And of the angels He says, "WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE."
    Heb 1:8; But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    Heb 1:8 But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.

    still speaking of the Son here...

    Heb 1:9 "YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS."
    Heb 1:10 And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;

    Heb 1:13; But to which of the angels has He ever said, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET"?
     
  11. Was not Jesus a messanger from God?

    Malachi 3:1
    . . .and the messenger of the covenant will come, . . .

    Strong's 4397 mal-’ā-ḵî, מַלְאָכִ֔י messenger

    Both the Hebrew mal·ʼakhʹ and the Greek agʹge·los literally mean “messenger.”

    Barnes' Notes
    "... The messenger, or the Angel of the covenant," plainly, even from the parallelism, is the same as "the Lord." It was "one," for whom they looked; one, of whose absence they complained; Malachi 2:17, "where is the God of judgment?" one, who should come to His temple , one whose coming they sought and prepared "to have pleasure in;" one, of whom it is repeated, "lo, He cometh," one, in the day of whose coming, at whose appearing, it was asked, "who shall stand?" "All Christian interpreters are agreed that this Lord is Christ Acts 2:36, whom God hath made both Lord and Christ, and Acts 10:36. ..."
    BT
     
  12. #52 Lanolin, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:42 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2018 at 7:44 AM
    Um bac is right apollyon and abaddon are not names of Jesus but the rest are.

    You also missed out Lamb of God.

    Lion of the tribe of judea is an attribute of rulers of that tribe. Jesus was mockingly callwe king of the Jews as he was crucified on the cross but everyone else was calling him the Messiah and King of Israel.

    It seems some people refuse to see the truth. Even when scriptures are open right before them. Bac you are very mistaken over who the lion is. Very sorry you continue to be in darkness.

    Check out 2 timothy 4:17-18
    please read your bible prayerfully and you will see. Dont refuse what God is showing you, i have noticed several times that you always are opposing one thing or another. Whether its bible versions or doctrines or asking you think you already know and then finding verses here and there to only support what you have already made your mind up to believe and completely ignoring the rest.

    If you dont understand scripture ask God to show you! You have only shown one verse out of the entire bible that suggests Jesus was called a lion but NOWHERE else! Whereas if you read the entire book of revelation to the end you will see Jesus is called the lamb over 20 times!

    Now please dont bite my head off simply cos I tell you the truth in love.

    I need to go to work now, Lord help me. Stop the mouths of those lions.
     
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  13. The one over the abyss is a “King” (Rev 9:11) into which The Devils is bound for a 1,000 yrs.

    So this King of the abyss (only one abyss spoken of) has the power to put The Devil out of action.

    Who then is this “King?” Other text point to Jesus:-


    1 John 3:8
    For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, to break up the works of the Devil.


    Genesis 3:15
    And I will put enmity between you (Devil) and the woman and between your (Devil) offspring and her offspring. He (Jesus) will crush your (Devil) head, and you (Devil) will strike him (Jesus) in the heel.”


    Hebrews 2:14
    Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh [of Jesus], he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he [Jesus] might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil,

    The scriptures seem to point to Jesus as the “destroyer” of Satan the Devil, hence as Abaddon and Apollyon; both mean destroyer; He fits the the picture well.

    BT
     

  14. Dear Brother, before I get into my questions. I agree totally with your ending statement! Alleluia!

    A couple of questions come to mind on what you have written. :)


    So, are you saying that when the Lion of Judah was spoken of in Rev 5:5 that it was speaking of His beastly nature and not actually identifying Him as the Christ?

    Is the Lion nature you are attributing to Jesus “wrong”, or “evil”?

    I ask this because our Sister says that Jesus is not the Lion, but the Devil. If so, it then would make the nature being discussed by us here as being “evil” and so, then it makes me curious if you are then saying that the nature of Jesus had “evil” as part of it?

    See, brother, for me this is all an exercise in semantics, due to the lack of seeing/knowing Him as He is, and accepting Him as He is. Man has made it a necessity to put a name to everything in order to identify the parts that make Him the Christ, or God incarnate. I see the descriptive names used to identify our Lord throughout Scripture, serves a purpose specific to the function/duties being mentioned/exercised or due to man’s failings.

    Lion? Lamb? Is our Lord an animal? Of course not! One can look at Revelation 5:5, and see that the name usage of “The Lion of Judah” was, not for the Gentiles, but for the Jewish people! So, that they could understand who was being talked of, was He who was promised from the OT.

    Scripture is meant for everyone, but its words are not. Just like we know that its words are true, though they contain lies.

    I hope you understand this.

    Always with the Love of Christ Jesus to you Dear Brother!
    YBIC
    Nick
    <><
     
  15. The Lord pointed out to me last night while driving, the song "Jesus", by Chris Tomlin which I've heard at least a hundred times -- checkout the first part of the lyrics :

    There is a truth older than the ages
    There is a promise of things yet to come
    There is one, born for our salvation
    Jesus

    There is a light that overwhelms the darkness
    There is a kingdom that forever reigns
    There is freedom from the chains that bind us
    Jesus, Jesus

    Who walks on the waters
    Who speaks to the sea
    Who stands in the fire beside me
    He roars like a lion
    He bled as the lamb
    He carries my healing in his hands
    Jesus
    ...​

    Just sayin... :shocked:
     
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  16. #56 Lanolin, Jan 13, 2018 at 11:14 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2018 at 7:31 AM
    Here are some scriptures to look up, talking about deliverance from lions

    17 Bible verses about Deliverance From Lions

    I would like to post them all here but this website is good for looking them up.

    Remember how David saved his sheep from hungry lions, killing the lion with stones.
    Daniel too was saved from being eaten in the lions den when angels stopped their mouths
    Samson killed a lion with his bare hands only with the mighty spirit of the Lord


    lions are predators and go after their prey. If you have sheep there is no way you want a hungry lion roaming around them.

    Some questions to ponder

    Who killed Jesus..who crucified him? Wasnt it the lion of the tribe of Judah? Jesus did not kill himself. He was sacrificed. Who are the people that must bear the reproach...isnt it the jews (tribe of judah?)
    Is Jesus the lamb of God as John the baptist declared him to be?

    Did the lions of the tribe of judah kill all their prophets? Yes they did. Most all the time any king that took the throne did evil in the tribe of judah by killing all their prophets that were warning them they were sinning. They ruled, as a lion rules the animal kingdom but a lions rule is by fear not love.
     
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  17. Now, you are making out as if people are animals! Sorry I am not, and I know neither are you Sister. So, what we are talking about are analogies, which help identify segments of the worlds population into separate groups. To make the bold statements you have made. Is to truly lump everyone into some singular category i.e. Tribe of Judah, being the Lion and attributing them alone as crucifying Jesus. Do you realize that the Apostles were also part of Judah and by default from the way you have lumped folks together, you are also saying they also killed Jesus? If you say yes, but they are now saved. Well, how many of Judah came to the Lord after His death?

    If you understand that "sin" or in other words the disobedience of man, is what made the Sacrifice of Jesus a necessity for any to be saved. Then you realize that we can all be included into this group of killers of Jesus as well.

    The need to make the Lion more than what it is, has tied you into knots. At the moment of you reading this, you want to fervently pray for me. If you do pray for me, pray that I might see more, and not so that I might agree with you. Let God determine my understanding through the Holy Spirit, and not you or any other man already established in their thoughts. I beseech this of you. Please. For your passion is evident, though lacking in compassion with those who disagree with you.

    With the Love of Christ Jesus Sister.
    YBIC
    Nick
    <><
     
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  18. I am not definitely certainly that that is what it means, but it may. What is a lion to men, but a beast? Why is Jesus called a lion in the verse? He had power as a lion has power in his native environment over those who are his natural prey and any of most of the other beasts... He alone was able to open the book, to open the seven seals. Did that require a lion? I am asking a sincere question. No one else apparently could open the seals, but they needed to be opened. Why did it have to be the Lion of Judah rather the Lamb of God?


    Jesus was a man of flesh tempted all ways as we are. His growing process included killing his beasts which when followed would cause a man of flesh to sin. Jesus never followed them and therefore never sinned. He did have the beasts, but he killed them all:

    "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

    "Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
    She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2

    "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
    And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; " Isaiah 11:1-2

    Jesus is the Branch and upon HIm are the seven spirits, including the spirit of wisdom with which he killed His beasts... all of them.

    "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

    Beasts are not all evil in themselves. The nature of a beast in a man combined with by man's knowledge of good and evil makes evil [sin] a possibility and something that needs to be overcome or killed within each person. Jesus did that within himself and opened the Way for other men to do it as well. But... as he used his body of flesh to accomplish God's will as a proper sacrifice perhaps he also used the Lion in himself to accomplish other things in God's will, such as per Rev 5:5 before killing that beast.


    I don't have a more precise or definite answer to her questions but I do not believe the beasts in us were evil until we misused them or followed them and made them so.

    Jesus had in him what we had in us except that we all followed our beasts into sin or misled them so that we sinned. He never did that. He killed his beasts. He overcame his beasts.



    I really don't have all of the answers. Do we need them to walk with Him?

    But, since you ask let me show you where I am... C

    Consider who was saved in Noah's ark: Men [8] were at the top, clean beasts were in the middle and unclean beasts were at the bottom, but everyone on the boat was saved:

    Because the beasts, unclean and clean, also had a purpose in God's overall plan.

    What is the purpose for all of those saved beasts?

    What kind of beasts were when we were born to our natural mother? I would say unclean beasts.

    We need to kill all of our beastly natures, first the unclean ones, but then also the clean ones so no beast remains.

    For someone born again [got into the Ark and saved from the flood] it is then necessary to become like Jesus.

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

    On the Way we should find ourselves making it into first heaven [Outer Court], second heaven [Holy Place] and finally to third heaven [Most Holy Place]. We enter the Outer Court with all of our beasts in us. We enter holy place with the unclean beasts dead. We enter Most Holy Place with all beasts dead.

    Jesus went through each of these heavens as man and killed all of his beasts as a man. Why did he have a lion nature? Was it only to open the seven seals?

    Give God the glory my friend!
     
  19. I'm glad you opened this as you did. We can then come to an agreement. For to me v5 is driven by v4. According to verse 4, it was to set at ease a distraught John. He being Jewish and not Gentile as I mentioned before the purpose thereof, and so comforted.

    Tell me that it was a dual purpose, as your opening suggests at and we can find mutual agreement. Tell, me it was not and we won't. :)

    So, you would say that man could never kill these same beats, because he was with sin. At least after the First Adam. However, now that we have the Holy Spirit, these beasts can now be conquered? I won't extrapolate to the different veins of thought this can lead to, but leave it as it is and agree.

    And it is only with and through Him, that this is possible! Amen!

    Even so, it remains that He was/is the only one that can/could do so and so v5.

    It can be no other way in the heart of those who believe. For all Glory is His my Brother!

    With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother and Friend.
    YBIC
    Nick
    <><
     
  20. Seriously I do not recall previously raising the question that our friend, @Lanolin raised with regard o Jesus being the lion. I understand her meaning, but I am not sure I can come to the same place. I will reread her posts on this. In other words I have been where you have been until now.

    Exactly so! Only an overcomer could kill those beasts by and through the Holy Spirit. So before Jesus made it possible, we could not be overcomers as He did.

    That is how I see it at the moment.

     

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