• Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

"My Lord and MY God"

Member
Christ:

To the dismay of many old time Christians, the Christian Church today seems to have forgotten about Jesus, the one who brought them, and the one David called God in the Psalms. He did, you know! And so did the prophet Isaiah as seen in Isaiah 35:4-7: "Be strong, and do not fear, for your God is coming. … to save you. And when he comes, he will open the eyes of the blind and unstop the ears of the deaf." This is an unmistakable reference to Jesus', the one true God, and the one who came and died for the sins of the world. And too, it was Jesus himself who put this thought in our minds, just the way he did for Thomas in the upper room when he called Jesus My Lord and My God. But very few Christians believe this today, a sad commentary on the Christian Church, the ones he love.

In Psalm 7 David said this to Jesus: "I have come to you for protection O Lord my God." And we know that this is Jesus he is calling God because Jesus said right after he rose from the dead (Luke 24), "The Psalms are about me." And too, Jesus said in Revelation 1:8 that he is the one of old from everlasting that the prophets wrote about, the Almighty God. See, in this verse David is preaching the Gospel ahead of time, long before we read it in the New Testament, and long before Paul preached it. And even though David didn't express it as clearly as the New Testament writers did, it was still the Gospel, nevertheless.


What I am saying is, David knew that the God he knew as YHWH God in the Old Testament is the New Testament Jesus. As I said, the one who would die on the cross to pay for the sins of the world, and the one I am preaching to you now. That's why he said in Psalm 118:25, "Please, Lord, please save us." And when Jesus entered Jerusalem, riding on a donkey, the people said the same thing: "Hosanna" they cried , which literally means, "Lord save us now ."

So David says to Jesus, "So save me Lord Jesus! If you don't they will maul me like a lion and tear me to pieces. And the lion David is talking about here is Satan; the arch enemy of Christ, and the evil one who tells people to do bad things and give us bad dreams and makes us sin.


Then David says in verses 7-8: "You gather the nations before you and sit on your throne high above them, passing judgement on all who have sinned against you." This is speaking of the last day when Jesus comes back as God to judge the world. And again, we might not think we sin against Jesus, but we do. That is to say, the greatest sin of the Christian Church today is that we deny Jesus as our God.

But notice that David speaks of Jesus as "you, he or him", one person. See, God is a single person like us, and David knew this. The Trinity is in the way he speaks. See God is like an actor playing three parts at the same time. And each part is him. You've seen actors do this. So when he says "The Father sent me", or "I go to the Father", he is speaking about himself by this other name. And when he says "In my Fathers house" he is speaking about himself too, only in the third person.


In fact, every time he mentions the Father he is speaking of himself. And this is true of the Holy Spirit, too. But when he says "I say" or "But I say" he is speaking of himself as Jesus!

This means that the term "Son of God is just a metaphoric expression to explain Jesus' stay on earth. And too, he called himself "The Son of Man" too, another metaphoric expression.

It was hard for the people of Jesus' day to understand what he was saying because of their lack of understanding and their limited minds. And too, because of the unwillingness of their leaders to believe in him. And the same is true of us today. We go out our way not to believe in him, too; that is, to say he is not God. What he is doing is revealing his other names (John 17:26) to us so we can know him better, and to show us the full extent of his love. But he is doing it in a metaphoric way. And we are supposed to ask him what he means by this, or why he is speaking to us this way, and he will tells us in other Scriptures.


See, that's what people do when they like you. They tell you their other names, and give you other personal information about themselves. But as I said, we call him Jesus because he tells us to. Look at how many times he calls himself Jesus in the Gospels. And too, Jesus is the name by which he saves us. And the name the angel gave him at his birth. What I mean is, Jesus is all of God you will ever see, so don't look for anymore, or anyone else, or any other God! As Peter said to the Jews in Acts 2:21; "Anyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved." And it will be this way when we get to heaven. We will say to him, "Lord show us the Father." And he will say to us, "When you see me you have seen the Father, we are the same person. So follow me." (John 14)

So David says in another place, "So listen to my cry O Lord Jesus and be merciful to me. For my heart has heard you say 'Come and talk with me.'" And I say to you, 'Yes Lord Jesus, I am coming!'"


God bless you,

Rev. Autrey
 
Active
Since the Lamb was made worthy ,by way of being slain ,to take the book with the seals from the hand of he who sits on the throne. Are you saying they are not two different
entities? A lamb (Jesus) and the only true God the Father of us all? But rather the same entity?
 
Member
This reply is to the editors of this forum. I made a mistake and posted "My LORD AND MY GOD" twice. How do I delete one of them?

Rev. Autrey
 
Member
Since the Lamb was made worthy ,by way of being slain ,to take the book with the seals from the hand of he who sits on the throne. Are you saying they are not two different
entities? A lamb (Jesus) and the only true God the Father of us all? But rather the same entity?

Moses was very clear on this subject: "Hear O Israel! The Lord our God is one person. And you must love him. …" This is a plain language statement and must not be violated by someone speaking outside of the Bible. What I mean is, Jesus is the one Moses was talking about as he walked the earth. And as Philip said in John 1: "We have found the very one Moses and the prophets wrote about. …" So here is the golden rule for seeing God: never come up with any rule that says we have more than one God. Such a thought is an abomination to the prophets of old who many of them gave their lives for Jesus. That is to say, Jesus is the name he uses in the Gospels and the Father and the Holy Spirit are his other two names. What you are talking about is a parabolic expression of the way Jesus operates. That is to say, Jesus sits on the throne and at the same time opens the seals of the Bible so we can understand the Gospel.

Rev. Autrey
 
Active
And as Philip said in John 1: "We have found the very one Moses and the prophets wrote about. …

Indeed, a prophet that God would send like unto Moses. It was him (Jesus) they should listen too as God was speaking to the people through him. Just as God was in the burning bush but was NOT THE BUSH.

Sorry for asking as I do not go where you went, denying that Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist period. 1 John 4:2-3.

You see the law was written for a man to fulfill and that only happened once. If God himself were to fulfill it that would be pretty much useless as he didn't give it to himself.
The other point would be that God wants all the fullness of himself to dwell in his Son and that now does at his glorification God pronounced Jesus to be a God his Son.
To carry that out a bit after the reconciliation of ALL THINGS unto the Lord Jesus, he in turn offers up the Kingdom to his Father so that makes it impossible for them to be the same entity.
Some of us do believe that the Bible got it right when it says that God raised Jesus from the dead. And since God CANNOT DIE it leaves only 1 possibility, it wasn't God who died!
I'm amazed at the way scripture is misunderstood and twisted to serve some antichrist doctrine denying the pretty much impossibility of a man fulfilling the LAW and then taking the sin of the world to himself in order to pay for the sin of the world with his own life. It does nothing but DIMINISH the accomplishment of our Lord.

The Bible speaks clearly to those of you who believe this way as it says "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH."

Best of luck on judgment day.
 
Active
Isaiah 35:4-7 Was fulfilled when God indwelled Jesus at Jordan and for the following years as It was God who performed the miracles even Jesus said so. John 5:20, John 14:10
Revelation 1:8 Speaks to the fact that he must reign until all enemies have been put under his feet and then he shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father. Therefore he is the
beginning and the end of salvation and reconciliation of all things.

So David says in another place, "So listen to my cry O Lord Jesus and be merciful to me. For my heart has heard you say 'Come and talk with me.'" And I say to you, 'Yes Lord Jesus, I am coming!'"

The name Jesus was never used in the Old testament. Your twisting and adding to make the case and its somewhat shameful. The Psalms 27:8 you present uses the spelling of
LORD (all caps) signifies the one true God. Just as in the "LORD" (God) said to my "Lord"(Jesus), the caps themselves signify the difference in the two and can be carried out to
include those of the elect as Jesus is Lord of lords, no caps for us.
 
Member
Indeed, a prophet that God would send like unto Moses. It was him (Jesus) they should listen too as God was speaking to the people through him. Just as God was in the burning bush but was NOT THE BUSH.

Sorry for asking as I do not go where you went, denying that Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist period. 1 John 4:2-3.

You see the law was written for a man to fulfill and that only happened once. If God himself were to fulfill it that would be pretty much useless as he didn't give it to himself.
The other point would be that God wants all the fullness of himself to dwell in his Son and that now does at his glorification God pronounced Jesus to be a God his Son.
To carry that out a bit after the reconciliation of ALL THINGS unto the Lord Jesus, he in turn offers up the Kingdom to his Father so that makes it impossible for them to be the same entity.
Some of us do believe that the Bible got it right when it says that God raised Jesus from the dead. And since God CANNOT DIE it leaves only 1 possibility, it wasn't God who died!
I'm amazed at the way scripture is misunderstood and twisted to serve some antichrist doctrine denying the pretty much impossibility of a man fulfilling the LAW and then taking the sin of the world to himself in order to pay for the sin of the world with his own life. It does nothing but DIMINISH the accomplishment of our Lord.

The Bible speaks clearly to those of you who believe this way as it says "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the TRUTH."

Best of luck on judgment day.

I will give you three Scriptures that says Jesus is the God of the Bible, one from the Old Testament and two from the New Testament. Zechariah 13: 10-11 quotes YHWH God as saying of himself: "Then I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on all the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for me as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for me as for a firstborn son who has died."

Now, you cannot deny that this is speaking of YHWH God as Jesus, the one who died.

Hebrews 1:8 quotes God as saying of himself: "Your throne. O God, endures forever and ever. … Lord in the beginning you laid the foundation of the earth. …" Read it for yourself!

Titus 2:13 says this of Jesus as God: "While we look forward to that wonderful event when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed. …". …" And too, the doctrine that God and Jesus are two different persons was given to us about 300 years after the Bible was complete. So again, never look to any revelation outside of the Bible that contradicts what we see plainly in God's inspired word.

But please tell me if you can, how did God have a son, Did he get married at some point in the past and have a son the way humans have children? Did he split himself in two parts and call one part his som. Or is Jesus an emanation that proceeded fourth out of God. But I tell you now, you wont find any reference to any of this in the Bible. You need to come up with a good answer to these questions before we and sensibly go on.


Rev. Autrey
 
Active
They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for me as for an only son. They will grieve bitterly for me as for a firstborn son who has died."

That's Jesus alright and he was an only Son of God, but not God. And those in attendance did mourn for Jesus and he was the one that was pierced. And again
God cannot DIE. And he did not raise himself from the dead he raised Jesus his Son.
Remember in John 20 after Jesus was resurrected he told Mary I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. So he tells us that he is not God right there again. God is his Father as well as ours. Lords prayer????? And that God is HIS God and our God the God of us all including him.

Hebrews 1:8 quotes God as saying of himself: "Your throne. O God, endures forever and ever. … Lord in the beginning you laid the foundation of the earth. …" Read it for yourself!

It actually says "But unto the SON he saith thy throne O God is for ever and ever......" Not to himself.
Misquotes again????
And too, the doctrine that God and Jesus are two different persons was given to us about 300 years after the Bible was complete.
I have no idea what your reading but I would suggest you throw it out and start over.
You got it completely backwards it was at that time of the Roman Catholics that at the council of Nicaea 325 AD they came up with the doctrine of the trinity. And to say otherwise was heresy, and having the backing of the empire they did as they pleased which wasn't play nice. And then that morphed into the worship of Mary as being the Mother of both God and Jesus and claimed her divine as well. So now she is worshiped as an intermediary.

God is a Spirit and as such does not have flesh and blood, but the MY GodNew covenant was ratified by the spilling of the blood of a man named Jesus.
Who when he was dying cried out "MY God My God why hast THOU forsaken ME?" I guess he was crying out to himself??????

And 3 verses to refute the rest of the New testament where Jesus repeatedly tells us himself that he is the Son of God, not God his own Father.

Not to mention that God himself twice said this is my beloved son hear ye him, or in whom I am well pleased, with an audible voice from heaven.

And nearly every book of the New testament starts off with giving glory to God the Father AND from Jesus Christ our Lord. Signifying 2 not one and it isn't just Paul.
The bible is clear in 2 Timothy 3 and 4 that the deception will grow stronger and stronger.

Hebrews1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his SON, whom he(God) hath appointed heir of all things..." You can't be an heir of yourself. And the verse doesn't say God appointed himself as heir, he appointed his Son Jesus.
 
Member
But please tell me if you can, how did God have a son, Did he get married at some point in the past and have a son the way humans have children? Did he split himself in two parts and call one part his som. Or is Jesus an emanation that proceeded fourth out of God. But I tell you now, you wont find any reference to any of this in the Bible. You need to come up with a good answer to these questions before we and sensibly go on.

I will ask you for one last time. Where did Jesus come from? You admit that he does exist, and that he is a mere man, but you do not say how he came into existence. And again, if you do not answer this question from the pages of the Bible our conversation has to come to an end. So without further delay please tell me if you are not afraid of the only possible answer.

Rev. Autrey
 
Active
How about we let the Bible answer.

Luke 1: 30 :And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God. 31- And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son,
and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 And he shall be great, and shall be called the (SON) OF THE HIGHEST: and the Lord God shall GIVE UNTO HIM the throne of his father
David:
33- And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of HIS kingdom there shall be no end."

Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

First thing to consider is that for Jesus to be given the kingdom of his father(small f) David he must be born as a man in the flesh to be a descendant of David which
Matthew outlines.

Second it plainly states that the Holy Ghost will come upon her and she shall conceive. Plainly stated God gave the male genetic material that impregnated one of her eggs.
This baby was then a flesh son of God and Mary, born outside the curses of Eden as God has no carnal mind and cannot pass that to his child. So Jesus was just like Adam
initially in the Garden, a human with no spiritual or physical curses.
Some find that offensive, but I would have to ask what ***** if you want to call it that, was ever made that God did not make? Only difference in the male Genetic
material used to make the body of Jesus was Gods as opposed to say your fathers that had no choice but to pass the curses to his child.

Once Jesus received the baptism in the Holy Ghost at Jordan, God, from heaven, says what? "Thou art my beloved Son in thee I am well pleased."

There is no way to get that God is Jesus or Jesus is his own Father out of these scriptures. God is a Spirit, and Jesus had to be born a MAN.
 
Active
But please tell me if you can, how did God have a son, Did he get married at some point in the past and have a son the way humans have children? Did he split himself in two parts and call one part his som. Or is Jesus an emanation that proceeded fourth out of God. But I tell you now, you wont find any reference to any of this in the Bible. You need to come up with a good answer to these questions before we and sensibly go on.

I think I found it all just fine and easily. And I am in doubt of you. Do you actually preside over any congregation? Or is Rev a shortened first name?
 
Member
How about we let the Bible answer.

Luke 1: 30 :And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God. 31- And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son,
and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 And he shall be great, and shall be called the (SON) OF THE HIGHEST: and the Lord God shall GIVE UNTO HIM the throne of his father
David:
33- And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of HIS kingdom there shall be no end."

Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, the Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

First thing to consider is that for Jesus to be given the kingdom of his father(small f) David he must be born as a man in the flesh to be a descendant of David which
Matthew outlines.

Second it plainly states that the Holy Ghost will come upon her and she shall conceive. Plainly stated God gave the male genetic material that impregnated one of her eggs.
This baby was then a flesh son of God and Mary, born outside the curses of Eden as God has no carnal mind and cannot pass that to his child. So Jesus was just like Adam
initially in the Garden, a human with no spiritual or physical curses.
Some find that offensive, but I would have to ask what ***** if you want to call it that, was ever made that God did not make? Only difference in the male Genetic
material used to make the body of Jesus was Gods as opposed to say your fathers that had no choice but to pass the curses to his child.


Once Jesus received the baptism in the Holy Ghost at Jordan, God, from heaven, says what? "Thou art my beloved Son in thee I am well pleased."

There is no way to get that God is Jesus or Jesus is his own Father out of these scriptures. God is a Spirit, and Jesus had to be born a MAN.

You are saying that God made Jesus at his birth, a direct contradiction of what Jesus says of himself in John 1:1: "In the beginning Jesus already existed. … and he was God." And of what Jesus says of himself in Revelation 1:8: "I am the Alpha and the Omega-the beginning and the end says the Lord Jesus. I am the one who is, who always was, and the one who is to come, the Almighty God."

So since you are sticking to your story that Jesus did not always exist, and that God made him, this conversation between you and me is at it's end. Therefore, I will not reply to any of your questions, or make any further comments to you on this subject.

Rev. Autrey
 
Active
You are saying that God made Jesus at his birth, a direct contradiction of what Jesus says of himself in John 1:1

I just quoted the verses in Luke that you say are a contradiction to what JOHN said in John 1:1, not Jesus himself. We all know that the entire Bible is referred to as the WORD of God. So why in that one verse does it (the entire WORD of God) specifically apply to a human named Jesus and nothing else?
 
Active
Luke 2:40 "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the GRACE OF GOD WAS UPON HIM."
Luke 2:52 "And Jesus increased in WISDOM and stature, and IN FAVOR WITH GOD and man."

I would think that any person reading those 2 verses would have to ask why would Jesus need to INCREASE IN WISDOM OR FAVOR WITH GOD, If he was God himself?
 
Active
Rev 3:14 " And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD."

Now why would Jesus refer to himself as the beginning of the CREATION OF GOD in this verse???????

Because he was the first to complete the WORD/PLAN????
 
Top