Modern day church, divorce and remarriage, we wear it like a badge of Honor.
Member
Well are you against divorce and remarriage in general? Or are you more against the idea of divorcing as an alternative to solving your marital problems? In that case, then yeah, it really sucks that we’ve come to a point where it’s condoned, and even praised when people file for divorce instead of trying to work together like a team. But the Bible does make an exception to this rule in Matthew:
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Matthew 5:32
Which basically means that if there is sexual immorality, then the bond between the man and woman has been broken, thus allowing for a divorce that does not go against the Bible’s teachings.
Those are just my thoughts.
32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Matthew 5:32
Which basically means that if there is sexual immorality, then the bond between the man and woman has been broken, thus allowing for a divorce that does not go against the Bible’s teachings.
Those are just my thoughts.
Loyal
I will say this, if you don’t believe me, that is good, because I want you to dig it out yourself. God has bless us with internet. There is a problem with some translations , substituted words in some English translation miss the mark of the original text. The words “sexual immorality” is replacement words for biblical “fornication” in which the word fornication in the historical grammatical context in which the Jewish people knew exactly what it meant. When Jesus spoke the words. Jewish people were engaged for one year in which that is a part of the marriage ceremony, they live together, reason to make sure the bride is a virgin and not pregnant! If she shows up pregnant within the allotted time the man can divorce her because of “fornication”. That is what Jesus was saving, the only reason for divorce. Outside of that , marriage is to death do you apart. Remember Joseph and Mary,!he was going to put her away privately., for “fornication”, remember the people call Jesus born of Fornication , because she had Jesus before marriage ceremony was over.
Dig it up for yourself, but now day you got to dig deep, These churches and ministers influence by the deceiver are burying the truth deep. Remember the Bible is for true Christians and not the world.
Dig it up for yourself, but now day you got to dig deep, These churches and ministers influence by the deceiver are burying the truth deep. Remember the Bible is for true Christians and not the world.
Member
The book of Matthew was originally written in Greek. The Greek word that was originally written in the book of Matthew in this specific verse was Pornea, which is often translated into Fornication in the kjv.
So the original verse sounded more like this:
Matthew 5:32: "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery..."
Great, so what does pornea mean?
well... in the Bible times it actually had three meanings:
(1)prostitution
(2)adultury
(3) incest
Figuratively it means idolatry, or sexual intercourse between unmarried persons.
So what does this have to do with Fornication? Well, fornication actually comes from the Latin word fornix, which meant bridge or archway. This word was eventually associated with lewdness and promiscuity because prostitution was usually conducted under bridges and archways. That’s why these places eventually became known as brothels. From there, fornix became a known, and late Latin developed fornix into fornicationem (nominative fornicatio), and the past-participle stem of fornicari was “to fornicate.”
But what does this mean now?
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition defines "fornication" simply as: "Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other."
Dictionary of modern American Usage, defines "fornication" to refer to sexual intercourse by:
(1) two unmarried persons
(2) one married person with an unmarried person.
Many conservative Christians, however, broadened the definition of fornication:
| "Adultery is one type of fornication...In Biblical usage, 'fornication' can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28)." |
there is one guy who disagrees with this conservative view. According to Christs Freedman:
“it [fornication] now includes "premarital sex, orgies, masturbation, oral sex, fetishes, anything to do with pornography, 'improper' thoughts about the opposite sex, homosexuality, and just about any other sexual sin you could think of." [Freedman] comments: "While some of these things are sin...this is a gross misuse of the word fornication."
Nowadays, we’ve broken down the definition to one sentence:
“sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.”
“…Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” Matthew 19:4
once a person sexually involves themselves with a person that it not their spouse, they are no longer of one flesh because they have broken the bond that is supposed to be between husband and wife. When this happens, then it’s completely justified to leave your spouse. After all, you’re no longer bound as one flesh. That’s the point I was trying to make.
You say that the law was to keep women from getting pregnant outside of marriage, but that has a lot of holes. Does this mean that men can’t fornicate because they can’t get pregnant?
jospeh was going to put Mary away because he thought she cheated on him. It’s simple as that. If a woman was pregnant before her marriage, it was because she had premarital sex.
That’s it.
Loyal
Were is the commandment of “agape” and forgive as God has forgiven you? The “agape” of God and worlds “love” is like night and day, You remember I did say, when I interpret scripture, my method is the “historical grammatical “ hermeneutics. In sense: Meaning the text has one meaning, that God is trying to convey. But we know from Christianity there are many applications.
Side note: sometimes, never dig where they what you to dig, because, sometimes the scripture is true: “they who leads you, leads you astray “
There are two Greek words for “fornication” if you have old copy of “Vines dictionary of Greek New Testament Words” it can be a catalyst.
What is the meaning of the Greek porneia in this passage (Matthew 19)? The Church of God for 40 years has said it relates to an illicit sex act committed PRIOR to being bound in marriage, undisclosed to the husband until AFTER the marriage ceremony.”
“The word porneia in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 does not, and cannot mean in this context, adultery …porneia can, and more often does mean fornication by an UNmarried person — prior to marriage. THIS IS THE ONLY MEANING THAT FITS THE CONTEXT IN MATTHEW 5 AND 19, CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S LAW AND ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, AND CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S PURPOSE!”
“Matthew alone mentions ‘except it be for porneia’ because only he has explained the incident of Joseph thinking to put away Mary his betrothed. When Jesus said these words, recorded in Matthew 5 and 19, He was very conscious of the fact that this very ‘exception clause’ INVOLVED HIS OWN CONCEPTION AND BIRTH.”
And we must also remember:
“What God has join together let NO man put asunder”.
“If you do divorce REMAIN unmarried or be reconciled unto your own husband or wife”.
Side note: sometimes, never dig where they what you to dig, because, sometimes the scripture is true: “they who leads you, leads you astray “
There are two Greek words for “fornication” if you have old copy of “Vines dictionary of Greek New Testament Words” it can be a catalyst.
What is the meaning of the Greek porneia in this passage (Matthew 19)? The Church of God for 40 years has said it relates to an illicit sex act committed PRIOR to being bound in marriage, undisclosed to the husband until AFTER the marriage ceremony.”
“The word porneia in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 does not, and cannot mean in this context, adultery …porneia can, and more often does mean fornication by an UNmarried person — prior to marriage. THIS IS THE ONLY MEANING THAT FITS THE CONTEXT IN MATTHEW 5 AND 19, CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S LAW AND ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, AND CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S PURPOSE!”
“Matthew alone mentions ‘except it be for porneia’ because only he has explained the incident of Joseph thinking to put away Mary his betrothed. When Jesus said these words, recorded in Matthew 5 and 19, He was very conscious of the fact that this very ‘exception clause’ INVOLVED HIS OWN CONCEPTION AND BIRTH.”
And we must also remember:
“What God has join together let NO man put asunder”.
“If you do divorce REMAIN unmarried or be reconciled unto your own husband or wife”.
Member
in order to answer you clearly with my sleep deprived brain at 2 am, I’m going to break down your reply and give my response to it. Please forgive me I’m advance if I change a few words here or there to help me better understand what you were trying to convey:
“Were is the commandment of “agape” and forgive as God has forgiven you? The “agape” of God and worlds “love” is like night and day”
You’re not obligated to continue to stay with someone that had broken a spiritual and emotional bond with you. The best example of this would be the case of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve betrayed Gods orders to not eat the forbidden fruit, but they did anyway. And for that, God cast them out of the garden. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t love them, but he could no longer stay with them because they had broken the connection that they had with God and introduced sin into their lives.
long story short, you could love and forgive all you want, and that’s fine, but you’re not obligated to stay with the person and maintain the already broken relationship.
“You remember I did say, when I interpret scripture, my method is the “historical grammatical “ hermeneutics. In sense: Meaning the text has one meaning, that God is trying to convey. But we know from Christianity there are many applications.”
I believe I did practice the “historical grammatical hermeneutics” when I showed you the original definition of the Greek word pornea, which, in the Bible times, covered three meanings: (1) prostitution, (2)adultery, and (3) incest. This isn’t a later interpretation of the word Pornea. This is how the Jews would’ve interpreted the word when reading the texts.
And when you say applications, do you mean interpretations? If so then I could agree with you, but that’s why you and I both like to do our research and try to figure out the intended message at it’s core.
Side note: sometimes, never dig where they [want] you to dig, because, sometimes the scripture is true: “they who lead[] you, lead[] you astray “
I really have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that these people are false prophets like in Isaiah 9:18? In that case, who are the false prophets? Are they the people that you don’t agree with? I would really like to know.
“There are two Greek words for “fornication” if you have old copy of “Vines dictionary of Greek New Testament Words” it can be a [start].”
I took the liberty of doing a quick search as to the two Greek words, which, come to find out, are Pornea and Moicheia. I’ve already defined Pornea twice in this forum, so I don’t have to do it again, but Moicheia is pretty interesting since it also translates to adultery. But I don’t see why you would bring this up since the Greek word used in Matthew is clearly Pornea. And yes, I did use the Vines dictionary, and it, too, agrees with me.
“The word porneia in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 does not, and cannot mean in this context, adultery …porneia can, and more often does mean fornication by an UNmarried person — prior to marriage.”
“in Matthew 5:32 ; 19:9 it stands for, or includes, adultery;” (StudyLight)
Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not his or her spouse.
“THIS IS THE ONLY MEANING THAT FITS THE CONTEXT IN MATTHEW 5 AND 19, CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S LAW AND ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, AND CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S PURPOSE!”
First off, were the caps really necessary. It feels like your yelling at me lol. Also, um...
“Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.” (Hebrews 13:4)
“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.” (Leviticus 20:10)
“She saw that for all the adulteries of that faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but she too went and played the [promiscuous woman].” (Jeremiah 3:8)
All of these verses are talking about adultery in the context of marriage. Also, Jeremiah provides another example of God separating himself, this time from entire nations. He still loves them without a doubt, as He is the embodiment of agape, but He doesn’t stay tied to them. Why should we in the context of divorce?
“Matthew alone mentions ‘except it be for porneia’ because only he has explained the incident of Joseph thinking to put away Mary his betrothed. When Jesus said these words, recorded in Matthew 5 and 19, He was very conscious of the fact that this very ‘exception clause’ INVOLVED HIS OWN CONCEPTION AND BIRTH.”
what? No. Are you saying that Matthew added the “except it be for Pornea” to cover Jesus’ behind? Are you serious? Are you... are you actually serious...?
Jesus didn’t come to change the law, he came to clarify a few things about the law. The old law said that a man must provide a certificate of divorce for his wife, but that was likely added by the Pharisees in order to make some extra bank on certificate fees. Jesus came to tell everyone “no, don’t divorce your spouse” and he provides an exception for the case of “Pornea” becuase, as I had shown in previous verses, this was a very common idea. Jesus didn’t come to be an “exception“, Jesus came to live like us, among us, to show us the way to true salvation. If Jesus really was to be an exception, then that would be counterproductive for his mission. That would mean that the laws didn’t apply to him, but they did, because he was born a humble birth and grew up as a man to show us and live by example for us.
And we must also remember:
“What God has join together let NO man put asunder”. (Matthew 19:6)
-except in cases of sexual immorality.
“If you do divorce REMAIN unmarried or be reconciled unto your own husband or wife”. (1 Corinthians 7:11)
This verse is pretty interesting. Paul is one of my favorite writers in the Bible, and he makes some pretty interesting points in this passage on being unevenly yoked:
“(12)If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. (13) And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. (14) For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband.”
however, if you keep reading, you’ll find that it also says this:
“(15) But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. (16) How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?”
Which basically means, if your unbelieving spouse leaves you, then let them.
The Lord knows your heart my guy. If you separate from a person for whatever reason, then that’s between them and God.
I probably missed something, but who knows. I started writing this at around two in the morning, and it’s already almost 4 in the morning. So let me know if I missed or misunderstood something.
Loyal
I fully understand what Jesus meant about fornication in the text. Jesus spoke that we may know the truth. He sent the Holy Spirit to guide us and to teach us in the truth we need for no man to teach us. Others maybe confused but we are not. “ marriage is to death do us part”. But people are sinful and there is none righteous no not one. All Deserve damnation. No one is “obligated” to do anything. No one desires to do God’s will, So I say let that man or women make their choice, but let them not remarry, if they do they are committing Adultery. “ no Adulterous person will enter the kingdom of God, for God will judge the adulterous person. I don’t thing we should take a chance we have to much to lose, it is not worth it.
“The way” is hard and narrow and only a Few find it. Many have died a violent death to stay on that path. Which path will you choose.
“The way” is hard and narrow and only a Few find it. Many have died a violent death to stay on that path. Which path will you choose.Member
I have no earthly idea what you're talking about, so let me just say this.
You're not going to hell if you divorce your wife. Life is too short to be tied down to a person that hurts you (either physically, emotionally, or spiritually), and who disrespects the sanctity of marriage by sleeping people other than their spouse. If you feel in your heart that you've committed a sin as grave as genocide for divorcing your spouse for whatever reason, then pray and ask God for forgiveness and move on.
People could pick apart that verse in Matthew all they want, but I would rather read it as it is. And the facts remain as it is:
When you cheat, you break the bond that is two people becoming one flesh. When you're no longer bound as one flesh, then it's not a sin if you decide to leave your cheating spouse. You don't have to leave your spouse. You're more than welcome to try and stick around and make it work, but you're not a sinner who is condemned to eternal punishment if you don't. It's not adultery if you're no longer married and bound as one flesh.
Member
I 100% agree, for we are under the grace of God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (MEV) "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one should boast."
Loyal
Agreed . I have often stated that our vow before God will be held before us at judgement . Did i cherish my wife though good and bad times , did i forgive her 7 x 70 times and did i ask to be forgiven 7 x 70 times .
Has our faith become as watered down as our vows to God who is eternal .
Loyal
I the boy who does the plowing is the man who reaps a good harvest