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Missing Bible Verses, Harper Collins, More

No, we are the Sower. We can bring them to water but can't make them drink. Just plant the seed and let Jesus do his work. Like I said, and I think we agree, more than one translation is better, especially for study. The Message is the Bible; I have yet to find an untruth in it and, by no means, is there anything there that could lead anyone away from the truth. If you think there is something there that would lead a person away from Jesus, please let me know!

Amen brother

1 Corinthians 3:1-11 (KJV)
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 
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RJ, you mentioned...."If you think there is something there that would lead a person away from Jesus, please let me know!" My Grandson Chad has read various Scriptures in the Old Testament, like Joshua, He says, How can God kill so many innocent people and children just to give the land to Israel. In this case, the Scriptures keep this unsaved man from Salvation. Obviously, his Father, my Son Skip, try and give him truth and pray for his Salvation.
  • God help you keep the faith and bless your ministry.
  • Only God knows for sure but I think it is more than likely that an individual should, deep inside, know if they are saved....I sure do and think it only comes from God. Both my sons consider themselves Christian...one has witnessed to me on several occasions, there other has not but, I can not say , for sure, what is in their heart...I think I can discern this but, again, it is up to God and only he knows for sure, even from the foundation!
  • About your grandson Chad,sounds like he is old enough to start forming some faith, or not. As you well know, questioning God's actions is a stumbling block for many because their perception is from a physical point of view, because they have not acquired a spiritual perspective, 1 Corinthians 1:18 and 1 Corinthians 2:14 come to mind. You and I see these verses and, we say yes and don't even come close to questioning God.
  • Personally, I don't think the scriptures can keep a person from salvation, a person keeps a person from salvation....once there, the scriptures substantiate and edifies the person. If nothing has changed with Chad yet, thank God he is questioning,many have not got that far! God is knocking...I pray Chad opens the door!
 
I have not yet read The Message so will not comment on its contents, I do have it, but am currently studying other items.

Picking up on some of the comments in this thread, I am surprised at the extremes.

RJ,
Christ4Ever is saying exactly what you are saying. so don't say "No'. Say yes!
And are you referring to the Translation of "The Message"? That is one of the worst translations to read. (KJV is the most recommended.)
And yes there are things that can lead a person away from Jesus Christ. Have you heard of an Atheist? Have you heard of Satan? Abortion? Murder? Of course there are things that can lead us away. But only if we chose to follow them.

The Message is not a translation. It is a paraphrase, and a very acceptable one, especially when used in conjunction to a good translation. In fact, new believers who are unfamiliar with bible language will come to love and crave scripture when introduced to this paraphrase, because their understanding is open and their hunger is great.

I am absolutely sure that Eugene Peterson thinks nothing of the kind. The quote you posted is from 'Eat this Book'. A glance at the rest of the book will tell you that he has the highest regard for the word of God.

For heaven's sake! Peterson is a Spirit-filled man. We should all know that God wasn't inspiring stories that are highly descriptive and detailed as to settings that include background, sights, sounds and smells. Holy Spirit helps us fill in those things. That's part of His job.

First I see criticism of 'The Message', with nothing constructive to back up the statement, then I see the comments praising, The Message and the author Eugene Peterson. Although we all agree that the most accurate translation is what we should always seek, there are also other situations we should also consider? Some may disagree with paraphrasing, because they are seen to be not accurate translations, but if they speak to the heart of a young soul and allow the Holy Spirit to take control, and the Word is not compromised, just said a different way, where is the problem?

If paraphrasing scripture is not considered correct because it is not accurate to The Word, because it is saying things a different way, then we could also compare this to when Jesus spoke in parables, He was speaking a different way. The Jews didn't understand what Jesus said, they interpreted what He said as not being 'accurate to scripture'. He spoke of the Old Testament scriptures and Law but, because it was said a different way, it didn't seem to them right to scripture.

Do we in this day and age when speaking say... 'I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.' e.g. ye, thee, hitherto, etc. No we don't. Why, because we were not born in King Henry VIII era. We speak according to the way we were taught in the time period we live and our culture. Ever since Babel language and the way people speak has changed but never more than today in this technological period of time. Do our children speak as we do? No. Do our grandchildren speak as we do? No. Do we speak like Shakespeare? No. England is a small part of Great Britain, yet even in this small piece of land the way people talk varies so much, the south speaks different to the north, the west speaks different to the east, and many variations in between, Geordies, Scousers, Brummies, etc.

So when we consider all the variations in speech in our current day and age, along with the differences subject to our age and the time zone we were born, surely if a paraphrase is not taking away the Truth in the Word and will speak to some, especially those who have not accepted our Lord or are young souls, then surely paraphrasing has to be acceptable, I think so.

After considering all the above variations, we also have to consider and accept, Church Congregations are made up of believers and none believers, some haven't yet tasted the milk, some are tasting the milk whilst others are thirsting for more, then we have the Christians on meat and wanting more, those on meat were once on milk!

So is paraphrasing an issue, considering the way we talk, the time zone we live in, our age in the world, our age as a Christian, what stage we are in our Christian life, I think not, providing it is accurate to scripture, maintaining the Word and context of the message to reach hearts at what ever stage that heart may be. Faith comes by hearing... we sow the seeds... the Holy Spirit does the work, God is in control. If paraphrasing is the milk for a young searching heart, that brings a young soul into the fold, I am sure by the Power of the Holy Spirit they will be guided and in time they too will be searching for real meat also.


I do hope the message is received gracefully, my heart was troubled when I read the extremes in the posts.


Jesus loves you. I do too.
 
I find it both humorous and sad that when a believer defends another believer it is called an extreme. As for paraphrases, I don't use them. But don't be so rigid about them, for every single disciple of Jesus Christ who desires to bring the gospel to the lost will paraphrase!

Grow up.
 
Makes you wonder if the writers choose God and not the other way around. :rolleyes:
God knows we have access to the original Greek on the internet. Rev 22:19 being fulfilled in the last days is a given. Definitely not God inspiring them.
 
  • God help you keep the faith and bless your ministry.
  • Only God knows for sure but I think it is more than likely that an individual should, deep inside, know if they are saved....I sure do and think it only comes from God. Both my sons consider themselves Christian...one has witnessed to me on several occasions, there other has not but, I can not say , for sure, what is in their heart...I think I can discern this but, again, it is up to God and only he knows for sure, even from the foundation!
  • About your grandson Chad,sounds like he is old enough to start forming some faith, or not. As you well know, questioning God's actions is a stumbling block for many because their perception is from a physical point of view, because they have not acquired a spiritual perspective, 1 Corinthians 1:18 and 1 Corinthians 2:14 come to mind. You and I see these verses and, we say yes and don't even come close to questioning God.
  • Personally, I don't think the scriptures can keep a person from salvation, a person keeps a person from salvation....once there, the scriptures substantiate and edifies the person. If nothing has changed with Chad yet, thank God he is questioning,many have not got that far! God is knocking...I pray Chad opens the door!

Thank you RJ. Very wise words and I receive them with a thankful heart. Chad is searching, for what, I'm not that sure. He grew up in a good Christian home. Unfortunately, his mother left faith in Jesus to go explore what the world had to offer in the arena of sex. My Son Skip has always had a great relationship with our Lord and has the example and works to prove it. So Chad looks at his mother with a very critical eye, and views his Father Skip as a true man of God. Two sides there, which one will he follow, Jesus or the World.
 
If Christ is truly inside you, he will lead you to all truth no matter what translation you are reading from at the time!!:rolleyes:

If Christ is in us, are we bound to always follow his lead, or can we not quench the Spirit of God? Why do we have more opportunity than those in the OT? Is God so unfair as that? Is He not an unchangeable God and has He not always been an unchangeable God?
 
If Christ is in us, are we bound to always follow his lead, or can we not quench the Spirit of God
No doubt, if God is in you, you can pull / drift awayat times but where are you going to go that he is still not there in you? This is diametrically apposed to what man had in the Old Testament! Then, on top of everything else, you had to complete your forgiveness on the Day of Atonement and that had to be repeated every year. Jesus finished his work on the cross and unlike the Priests of Old that had to be replaced and their work was never finished, Jesus is our final priest and he sat down for all eternity!
Why do we have more opportunity than those in the OT?
Because , as promised, he NOW lives in us! Your opportunity has been finalized by God's free gift of grace to us, not so in the OT, which was dictated by laws, rule and requirements!
Is God so unfair as that?
You can call him unfair if you want, I call him holy, righteous and blameless and give him all the glory, while I take none!
 
If Christ is truly inside you, he will lead you to all truth no matter what translation you are reading from at the time!!:rolleyes:
I think you missing the point. A good man can be deceived and teach tripe. Saved, but full of and teaching tripe / a watered down message. Kind of whats happening now with faith and prosperity teaching and GLBT acceptance.
 
If Christ is truly inside you, he will lead you to all truth no matter what translation you are reading from at the time!!:rolleyes:

Agreed brother RJ. However, would that still be the case then with The Message since it's a paraphrase and not a translation?
 
Agreed brother RJ. However, would that still be the case then with The Message since it's a paraphrase and not a translation?
  • I you agree, then that should be sufficient!
  • Yes it is a paraphrase of a translation, put in a vernacular that could be explained as more common to modern man. I also, love the KJV version but I don't live in a world of Thees and Thous.
  • Yes, it would be the case with EVEN the Message. I don't know about you but, I would have the same confidence in, or even more in Christ, if I were to read the Koran!
  • I bet somewhere, someone has been brought to God because of their reading of the Message; that is good enough for me!
 
I think you missing the point. A good man can be deceived and teach tripe. Saved, but full of and teaching tripe / a watered down message. Kind of whats happening now with faith and prosperity teaching and GLBT acceptance.
  • I am not missing the point!!!...Christ is either in you revealing all truth or he isn't! Pull up any Message verse and show me it is "tripe", then we can have a fair discussion with you. Show me one verse that is against Christ or anti-Christ!
  • Is your obvious disdain for the Message more of a self / prideful thing, rather than relying on Christ to steady your thoughts?
  • It is not my Bible of choice. nonetheless, I use it. As many times as you speak out against the Message, I bet across the world, there are many more times someone comes to God because of it!
  • Good grief!:eek:.....I am sure if I tell you, "I am currently reading the Koran", I suppose you would save....see there...you are not a Christian or saved!
  • Get a grip and rely on Christ more than that! listening to you, one would think that you believe the Message is "sinful"!
 
1. I am not missing the point!!!...Christ is either in you revealing all truth or he isn't! Pull up any Message verse and show me it is "tripe", then we can have a fair discussion with you. Show me one verse that is against Christ or anti-Christ!

2. Is your obvious disdain for the Message more of a self / prideful thing, rather than relying on Christ to steady your thoughts?

3. It is not my Bible of choice. nonetheless, I use it. As many times as you speak out against the Message, I bet across the world, there are many more times someone comes to God because of it!

4. Good grief!:eek:.....I am sure if I tell you, "I am currently reading the Koran", I suppose you would save....see there...you are not a Christian or saved!

5.Get a grip and rely on Christ more than that! listening to you, one would think that you believe the Message is "sinful"!
1. God gave us His word for a reason. I believe you are missing the point. Let me try better explain...

Every man thinks God is speaking to him. I have had discussions with people that have ended with ''God speaks to them and not me''. ''They hear the Holy Spirit and I don't''. I am so grateful that God gave us His word in human / English vernacular. Especially grateful for 2 Tim 3:16 (scripture corrects scripture). Now understand that I am not bashing you. There is truth to what you are saying. Jesus does lead us into all truth. But the other real truth is that we are humans. We are corruptible, growing and going through phases. God's word must not be a slippery slope.

2. What message?

3. No argument here. God can use a donkey to share His word. The exclusion of the verses on sodomy bother me. I have disposed of my NIV as a result. It doesn't bother you?

4. I think you are miss-reading my post. I have studied and read much of the Koran.
 
The Message isn't tripe.

I will differentiate between faith teachers that listen to poor paupers and ill sods (forgivable) and those that don't (tripe).

But don't ask more of me ;).
 
  • I you agree, then that should be sufficient!
  • Yes it is a paraphrase of a translation, put in a vernacular that could be explained as more common to modern man. I also, love the KJV version but I don't live in a world of Thees and Thous.
  • Yes, it would be the case with EVEN the Message. I don't know about you but, I would have the same confidence in, or even more in Christ, if I were to read the Koran!
  • I bet somewhere, someone has been brought to God because of their reading of the Message; that is good enough for me!

Dear Brother,
When I provided a table of YLT, NIV, & TM (#28). Did you or anyone else for that matter Google the phrase I mentioned and one I will circle below and highlight?

upload_2016-2-25_12-38-53.png


I have this "feeling" that no one did search or if they did, decided to remain silent about it. Curious.......I figured I'd see some justifying remarks or comments saying that some how I'm blowing things out of proportion or that I've lost my mind, or even that I'm being too critical or picky for something that is just a paraphrase, or it's a coincidence, or he didn't know, etc..... :whistle how many or's did I use? :rolleyes:

By the way. Which people in this generation or any other would not be able to understand "on Earth, as it is in Heaven" and made it necessary to use "As Above, so below"?

Sadly, brother on your bullets.
I don't have enough time or inclination to punch holes in Bullets 2-3 while still having it relate to the thread at hand........however, I can't help commenting a little on 3.....don't be betting with someone else's money. :D

Still love you brother! :thumbsup:
YBIC
C4E
<><
 
I can't help commenting a little on 3.....don't be betting with someone else's money. :D
That tells me you don't even come close to understanding my point about the Koran.... I am completely at peace and full of confidence with Christ in me. Oh well, you are still my brother anyway!
 
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