Married spiritually but not legally

[PearlB]

@ PearlB -- weren't you agreeing that being joined by flesh is considered being married? In otherwords having sex being considered as marriage.

So -- now you're defending the ceremony- based marriage and then sex.

What makes you think that? Perhaps you didn't read all the post.

I stand by what I posted previously, if you have "laid" together, then your now married. Nothing stopping you two from doing that, then announcing to all and sundry what you have done. Then we can have a huge celebration. The catholics and the wedding industry have a lot to answer for. Follow the money and the authority.

I totally agree with you Gregoryp. I have read in a number of places how for their own purposes the Catholics back in the day decided to take control of marriage which up till then had been a personal matter between a man and a woman who wanted to commit to each other. And now, just like Sue D, there are people who consider it sinful to live together as man and wife without the benefit of a church ceremony. To marry means to join.

 

[Sue D.]

Though there seems to be little debate among churchgoers concerning marriage, that is because they are so vested in religious traditions, they have lost sight of the basic understanding of God's Word. As we can see from countless examples in Scripture, people tend to have a hard time letting go of religious traditions, no matter how corrupt they are, and as we will soon learn, despite the fact that most churchgoers think marriage traditions come from Scripture, the reality is that many of the religious traditions surrounding marriage have come from paganism and witchcraft, which have been repackaged into a fluffier version by the Catholic Church, a corruption of Christian doctrine transformed into works-based heresy, by which no man can be saved.

How about following Biblical guidelines // why should people be willing to let go of religious traditions? What religious traditions are corrupt?

 

[PearlB]

What you say is all true, but, in ancient Jewish weddings, there existed a written contract that was kept as a matter of record. That contract was necessary in the event of divorce. Meaning: there needed to be a record of marriage in order for there to be a recognized divorce. Otherwise, all that exists is what you get with two people cohibating: if one decides to leave and cohabitate with another, without a written record of marriage, there is nothing to recognize the rights of the one abondoned.

It could be true but it still didn't involve making vows before a priest.

 

[PearlB]

How about following Biblical guidelines // why should people be willing to let go of religious traditions? What religious traditions are corrupt?

Sue D, Please quote the scripture that says a couple must make vows in front of a priest before they are married.

Joseph and Mary were betrothed, an agreement that was binding for both of them even though they hadn't yet married ie consummated their union. And there is no mention of a wedding.

The marriage that God ordained was that of two people agreeing to share their lives and making a commitment to each other in front of witnesses. Making a covenant with each other without the need for a priest. All religions have moved on from that to what we think of as marriage today.

But in answer to the the OP - don't worry about taking in vows in front of a celebrant.

 

[Sue D.]

What makes you think that? Perhaps you didn't read all the post.

I totally agree with you Gregoryp. I have read in a number of places how for their own purposes the Catholics back in the day decided to take control of marriage which up till then had been a personal matter between a man and a woman who wanted to commit to each other. And now, just like Sue D, there are people who consider it sinful to live together as man and wife without the benefit of a church ceremony. To marry means to join.

I do not care What the RCC thinks or does.

take a look at Heb 13:4 // Galations 5:14-21 // 1 Corinthians 7:2

 

[Sue D.]

@ Pearl B -- and what would be Wrong with repeating your vows to each other in front of a pastor or justice of the peace and friends and family.

A ceremony of some sort -- repeating vows to each other and Then being alone to consumate that union. It makes that relationship very special. You're promising to be faithful to each other -- that you're taking your relationship very seriously. I don't think there's anything more fun and special than going to a wedding.

Just deciding to have sex together -- moving in with someone -- it's easy to just move back out. If the sex isn't really very good, then go on to the next potential partner.

 

[PearlB]

I do not care What the RCC thinks or does.

take a look at Heb 13:4 // Galations 5:14-21 // 1 Corinthians 7:2

I totally agree with those scriptures Sue D. But the marriage described in those passages did not involve a priest. It was a personal contract between two people of opposite genders. They weren't joined by a priest. And living together today as man and wife, faithful and committed to each other in love is not a sin apart from in the eyes of some people who think sex is sinful. I am not saying God didn't ordain marriage, just that it was a personal matter until the Catholic church got hold of the idea of making people feel guilty unless they made vows in a church setting with a priest in attendance to declare them married.

 

[JerryfromMass]

It could be true but it still didn't involve making vows before a priest.

Nonetheless, marriage was s public acknowledgement with witnesses and a wriiten contract so that the world would the two had a record of marriage.

 

[PearlB]

@ Pearl B -- and what would be Wrong with repeating your vows to each other in front of a pastor or justice of the peace and friends and family.

A ceremony of some sort -- repeating vows to each other and Then being alone to consumate that union. It makes that relationship very special. You're promising to be faithful to each other -- that you're taking your relationship very seriously. I don't think there's anything more fun and special than going to a wedding.

Just deciding to have sex together -- moving in with someone -- it's easy to just move back out. If the sex isn't really very good, then go on to the next potential partner.

There's nothing wrong with, I never said there was. I have been trying to answer the question in the OP.

But you can promise to be faithful without the need for it to be done in church, And how many of those who do say those vows in church are not Christians?

And I would see that last paragraph as fornication which is a sin.

 

[PearlB]

Nonetheless, marriage was s public acknowledgement with witnesses and a wriiten contract so that the world would the two had a record of marriage.

I never said it wasn't.

 

[Sue D.]

@PearlB -- as I've stated , I'm not RCC -- what they do is non of my concern. I was married 46 yrs. ago by my pastor and brother-in-law who was also a pastor. Lots of people were there to celebrate with us.

Sex is Not sinful -- it was created by God. The book of Song of Solomon talks about sexual love.

There Are those who decide that sex is only for having children and if you don't want children you don't need to have / enjoy sex.

Sex is wonderful. My husband passed away 2 1/2 yrs ago -- I've missed that closeness.

I grew up in the atmosphere / Biblical teaching that people refrain from a sexual relationship until they are married. Purity. Society kind of laughs at that. God doesn't.

Do you watch Hallmark movies? I really enjoy those. The romance, the being proposed to and planning the wedding and getting married.

 

[Sue D.]

@ PearlB -- Why does a priest need to be involved. I'm Baptist -- a pastor works just fine. It's more the idea of a clergy performing the ceremony. Makes it special.

And there's the signing of the marriage certificate. I still have mine.

And all the wedding pictures being taken -- all those memories. How people looked all dressed up and going down the aisle. The reception , etc.

I'm still trying to figure out how to be single. Having to make all kinds of decisions on my own. I'd much rather be sharing 'this' with someone. I'm in an apartment and realize how temporary it feels. I bought property that I found and a realtor helped me with that. I'm in process of making lots of decisions -- interior and exterior -- it would be nice to have someone to share all of that with.

And there Are the Ten Commandments -- one of them is "do not commit adultery" and #10 is 'you shall not covet your neighbors' house; or his wife' And that could probably Also apply to a wife coveting 'her husband'.

That which makes for a husband or wife is a marriage. And the coveting means wishing he or she was Yours'. Which means that a husband is to be satisfied with his own wife and the wife with her own husband.

 

[PearlB]

@PearlB -- as I've stated , I'm not RCC -- what they do is non of my concern. I was married 46 yrs. ago by my pastor and brother-in-law who was also a pastor. Lots of people were there to celebrate with us.

Sex is Not sinful -- it was created by God. The book of Song of Solomon talks about sexual love.

There Are those who decide that sex is only for having children and if you don't want children you don't need to have / enjoy sex.

Sex is wonderful. My husband passed away 2 1/2 yrs ago -- I've missed that closeness.

I grew up in the atmosphere / Biblical teaching that people refrain from a sexual relationship until they are married. Purity. Society kind of laughs at that. God doesn't.

Do you watch Hallmark movies? I really enjoy those. The romance, the being proposed to and planning the wedding and getting married.

I'm not RCC either and I much prefer films and books that don't have sex in them but I like a bit of gentle, Christian style romance. I may have seen some of the Hallmark films but not sure. Can you name any?

I've been married for 50 years and we've both been completely faithful and we still make each other laugh a lot and pray that God will strengthen whichever one of us is left behind. How lovely to have been married by a family member. You must miss your husband dreadfully. It's so good to share our good memories, things nobody else would know about and once we're on our own that part of our life is gone forever.

I believe that couples should refrain from sex until they are married or in the case of homosexuals and lesbians celibacy would be the ideal way.

When we have wedding in our church they usually say 'till death do us part, or until Jesus returns'.

 

[PearlB]

Why does a priest need to be involved. I'm Baptist -- a pastor works just fine. It's more the idea of a clergy performing the ceremony. Makes it special.

When i said priest it was general term for any celebrant.

And I agree that weddings are special - I like weddings. But the person who posted the OP can't afford that type of ceremony but they are Christians totally committed to each other. So do you think they are wrong?

 

[PearlB]

Hi Sue D, it's been nice chatting with you but I'm closing down now. See you around tomorrow perhaps. Good night and many blessings.

 

[Sue D.]

@ PearlB -- your posts sound like you're okay with just living together. No need For a wedding. The family member is also a pastor -- retired from mission field in Brazil.

That's a beautiful , wonderful way To end a wedding ceremony.

My husband had problems with PTSD. He came out of the military -- the Viet Nam era -- a distrust for most everyone. After his death, I was Finally able to go through lots of military paper work -- psyche evaluations, etc. learned a lot that I'd suspected -- so -- God chose to take him 'home' where he is free of those inner frustrations. He'd collapsed / suffered an anurism -- brain bleed -- had to make some Hard decisions.

 

[Sue D.]

It's late for me, too. Closing down.

 

[PearlB]

I am married, but not legally. My husband and I can't afford to have a wedding or get rings right now, but we have prayed to god to accept our marriage and have told him that we are married. Do you have to get married by a priest to actually be married in god's eyes?

I'm on your side and believe you ARE married in God's eyes, but when you say you can't afford to have a wedding do you mean with all the trimmings? How much would a wedding cost if you didn't have 'the dress', 'the cake'. 'the bridesmaids' or even 'the rings'? Those are all unnecessary to a simple wedding so how much would a wedding with just you, your pastor and a couple of witnesses cost?

 

[B-A-C]

John 4:16; He *said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here."
John 4:17; The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus *said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband';
John 4:18; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."
John 4:19; The woman *said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.

Jesus didn't consider shacking up the same as being married.
She has had "husbands", but the one she is with now, is NOT her husband.

Definition of FORNICATION

consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other… See the full definition

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Fornication - Wikipedia

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1Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[B-A-C]

Joseph and Mary were betrothed, an agreement that was binding for both of them even though they hadn't yet married ie consummated their union. And there is no mention of a wedding.

Matt 1:20; But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
Matt 1:24; And Joseph awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife,

Well something happened that was different from when he just betrothed to her.

I believe that couples should refrain from sex until they are married or in the case of homosexuals and lesbians celibacy would be the ideal way.

It seems you are OK with homosexuality... as long as they don't have sex? Or at least no sex until they are married?

1Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

In the Bible there were many reasons for marriage ceremonies.
First witnesses to the covenant - people to hold these two responsible if one backs out or is unfaithful. No witnesses = no accountability.
Second to track bloodline and ancestry. Not a big deal for some, but it was big for the Jews.
Third for legal accountability - who owns the house if (a) we get divorced or (b) someone dies.
Another part of the legal responsibility is who pays child support for the children or in some cases alimony.

You can still get married by a Justice of the Peace in most towns for about $50.00. He himself and his secretary are all the witnesses you generally need.
But why wouldn't you invite you friends? Unless either of you has doubts, in which case you shouldn't get married.