Loyal
@B-A-C has pointed out fatal flaws with this reduction of marriage to sex earlier in the thread. You should probably address the issues he raises before repeating your mistake.
Marriage
Active
OR - just not bother with it at all. "Theology" is like noses - everybody's got one. And they're kind of the same, but somewhat different.
Loyal
you are repeating yourself. You've done the theology=noses gag already in this thread. And what you are saying about marriage is not a matter of theological nuance, it's straight out wrong and potentially harmful.
Active
So - nothing, then.
Loyal
Yes. It would have been better if you'd literally said nothing on the topic.
Member
Isaac and Rebecca... Genesis 24:67
Loyal
Move forward 2000 years and what did Jesus have to say about it?
John 4:16; He *said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here."
John 4:17; The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus *said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband';
John 4:18; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."
Why didn't Jesus consider the man she was with to be her husband?
When David slept with Bathsheba, why was it a sin? Why didn't she instantly become his wife?
How could the man in 1Cor 5 sleep with his father's wife? Once they slept together why wasn't she his wife?
The woman caught in adultery about to be stoned, why was it adultery? Why didn't she instantly become the man's wife once she slept with him? Why did Jesus tell her.. "go and sin NO MORE".
When Lot's daughters got him drunk and seduced him, why didn't they become his wives?
Gen 24:67; doesn't say there was a ceremony, but it doesn't say there wasn't. I don't think I would build a doctrine on half of one verse.
Especially one from the Old testament about a story that happened before the Law was given.
1Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Heb 13:4; Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Finding one verse that doesn't say they didn't have a marriage ceremony is border line ridiculous.
1Tim 4:1; Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Tim 4:2; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Tim 4:3; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Loyal
replies #46, #51, #57, #58, #62, #67, #106.
Hello again @EverlastingWinter,
Forgive me if I am repeating something another has said, but these are a few observations:-
* Speaking to Jews who knew the law, Paul uses the illustration of the marriage relationship to show how the believer is released from the law to serve God in newness of spirit (Romans 7:1-6) by the death of the body of Christ. Praise God!
* In 1 Corinthians 7:1-16, Paul instructs concerning marriage in the light of the fact that at that time the return of Christ was deemed to be imminent. Following the preaching of Peter, and the promise that God would send the Lord Jesus back again, if the nation of Israel came to repentance. All preaching was to that end, and that outcome was what everyone anticipated. So it is not surprising that Paul begins his instruction with the word, 'it is good for a man not to touch a woman', for if the return of Christ was imminent, then entering into a marriage relationship at that time, was deemed to be a cumbrance best avoided. See also 1 Corinthians 7:34. in fact the whole chapter gives witness to that fact, and advises accordingly.
* In Ephesians 5:22-23, Paul again uses the union between husband and wife, this time to illustrate the relationship between Christ and the Church which is His Body, which is 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all'.
* In 1 Timothy 3:2 & Titus 1:6, when instructing regarding the role of a Bishop, Paul says he must be the husband of one wife.
* So the role of marriage is given particular attention by Paul,
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello again @EverlastingWinter,
Forgive me if I am repeating something another has said, but these are a few observations:-
* Speaking to Jews who knew the law, Paul uses the illustration of the marriage relationship to show how the believer is released from the law to serve God in newness of spirit (Romans 7:1-6) by the death of the body of Christ. Praise God!
* In 1 Corinthians 7:1-16, Paul instructs concerning marriage in the light of the fact that at that time the return of Christ was deemed to be imminent. Following the preaching of Peter, and the promise that God would send the Lord Jesus back again, if the nation of Israel came to repentance. All preaching was to that end, and that outcome was what everyone anticipated. So it is not surprising that Paul begins his instruction with the word, 'it is good for a man not to touch a woman', for if the return of Christ was imminent, then entering into a marriage relationship at that time, was deemed to be a cumbrance best avoided. See also 1 Corinthians 7:34. in fact the whole chapter gives witness to that fact, and advises accordingly.
* In Ephesians 5:22-23, Paul again uses the union between husband and wife, this time to illustrate the relationship between Christ and the Church which is His Body, which is 'the fulness of Him that filleth all in all'.
* In 1 Timothy 3:2 & Titus 1:6, when instructing regarding the role of a Bishop, Paul says he must be the husband of one wife.
* So the role of marriage is given particular attention by Paul,
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Loyal
'And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.'
(Gen 3:15)
Hello again, @EverlastingWinter,
I believe that the sanctity of marriage is important in the light of the seed produced by that union: For throughout the Old Testament the seed through Isaac (Genesis 21:12) in it's generations (which was attacked over and over because of the promise of God concerning it), and the coming through his line, of that promised 'seed' of Genesis 3:15. This is what necessitated the saving of Noah and his family, Noah only having remained perfect in his generation: Through his son, Shem, the line of the seed continued on, because of the judgment of the flood, which washed away the genetic contamination of the union of angelic beings, which took place, with the daughters of men. We are warned in Scripture of this occurring again in end times, and if marriage loses it's place in society then the likelihood of demonic intrusion becomes more likely.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
and between thy seed and her seed;
it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.'
(Gen 3:15)
Hello again, @EverlastingWinter,
I believe that the sanctity of marriage is important in the light of the seed produced by that union: For throughout the Old Testament the seed through Isaac (Genesis 21:12) in it's generations (which was attacked over and over because of the promise of God concerning it), and the coming through his line, of that promised 'seed' of Genesis 3:15. This is what necessitated the saving of Noah and his family, Noah only having remained perfect in his generation: Through his son, Shem, the line of the seed continued on, because of the judgment of the flood, which washed away the genetic contamination of the union of angelic beings, which took place, with the daughters of men. We are warned in Scripture of this occurring again in end times, and if marriage loses it's place in society then the likelihood of demonic intrusion becomes more likely.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Loyal
'This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves,
covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers,
disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers,
incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.'
(2 Tim. 3:1-5)
Hello again, @EverlastingWinter,
In relation to my previous post (above), with the increase in ferocious murders being carried out by children within the last few years, and engaging in knife crime, with these young people being incarcerated without possibility of parole for the greater part of their lifetime as a result, and the increase in parents murdering their own young, I think of the references (above) which refer to mankind (in the last days) being, 'without natural affection' and 'fierce', and I am inclined to think that this is the result of demonic influence: Yet in Romans chapter one, it states that this manifestation of evil is the consequence of mankind not desiring to retain the knowledge of God in their consciousness:-
'And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,
God gave them over to a reprobate mind,
to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness,
fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness;
full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters,
inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding,
covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God,
that they which commit such things are worthy of death,
not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.'
(Rom 1:28-32)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Loyal
'Now the Spirit speaketh expressly,
that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy;
having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry,
and commanding to abstain from meats,
which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving
of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused,
if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.'
(1Tim. 4:1-5)
that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy;
having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry,
and commanding to abstain from meats,
which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving
of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused,
if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.'
(1Tim. 4:1-5)
Member
Hi,
question 1: Why didn't Jesus consider the man she was with to be her husband?
Answer: The first man that she says the night with would have been considered her husband. That is common law marriage, therefore all the other men are not and never will be her 'husband'. He does not actually state that she never had a husband, that the one she is currently with... is certainly not her husband. Additionally a person who has an affair is considered 'dead' to their spouse. If she indeed slept around with 4 other men, naturally she wont have a husband. I hope that would be the case in the modern era. No man should tolerate that.
question 2: When David slept with Bathsheba, why was it a sin? Why didn't she instantly become his wife?
Answer: David saw Bathsheba bathing from his rooftop and, overcome with desire, he sent for her and slept with her, despite the fact that she was married to Uriah, one of David's loyal soldiers. I will point out the obvious, adultery is a sin.
question 3: How could the man in 1Cor 5 sleep with his father's wife? Once they slept together why wasn't she his wife?
Answer 3: A man who is engaged in a sexual relationship with his father's wife, which would be his stepmother. Again the obvious... Insest is a sin, dishonoring the family is also a sin.
question 4: The woman caught in adultery about to be stoned, why was it adultery? Why didn't she instantly become the man's wife once she slept with him? Why did Jesus tell her.. "go and sin NO MORE".
question 4: Adultery is a SIN. She is already married and should be looking after her family and not destroying her family. Jesus wanted her to sin no more... which is a second chance of life, he gave her grace.
Question 5: When Lot's daughters got him drunk and seduced him, why didn't they become his wives?
Question 5: Not clear of mind during the act, additionally Sinful acts...
Your statement:
Gen 24:67; doesn't say there was a ceremony, but it doesn't say there wasn't. I don't think I would build a doctrine on half of one verse.
Especially one from the Old testament about a story that happened before the Law was given.
My response:
You are correct in pointing out that the Bible does not explicitly mention a specific marriage ceremony for Isaac and Rebekah in Genesis 24:67. The details of marriage customs and ceremonies varied in ancient cultures, and the specifics of Isaac and Rebekah's union are not provided in great detail in the biblical text.
It is also important to consider the context in which this story takes place. The events in Genesis 24 occurred before the Mosaic Law was given, so the customs and traditions surrounding marriage may have been different from those prescribed in later biblical laws.
Additionally, Rebekas family did know of her being sent off the get married, the family was given gifts which I would consider a dowry i think its called? Even if their was no formal ceremony they still had family aware of it and approve.
When she covered her head it was similar to a 'vail' and when he took her he became her husband and she his wife. Its in the text and I wont be swayed otherwise. A marriage cannot be founded on sin, which is obvious infact if their is a sin and the other person is aware of it you can get the marriage annulled... and this is modern and should be obvious.
You other statement:
Finding one verse that doesn't say they didn't have a marriage ceremony is border line ridiculous.
My Response:
I understand you can I have your opinions in the matter. To me though it is important to read and learn every aspect of the Bible.
Besides, while the specific details of the marriage ceremony or customs may not be explicitly mentioned in the text, the narrative highlights the importance of seeking God's guidance and following the cultural practices of the time in forming a marital union. The marriage of Isaac and Rebekah is seen as a model of faithfulness, partnership, and divine intervention in the biblical tradition.
Most Biblical accounts of marriage often emphasize the commitment, covenant, and faithfulness between a husband and wife, regardless of the specific cultural or traditional practices involved in the marriage ceremony. Each marriage in the Bible reflects the historical and cultural context in which it took place, highlighting the diversity of marital practices and experiences throughout scripture.
1Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
Heb 13:4; Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.
Sorry for the very late response,
I developed a bit of a heart condition and have been not in the greatest of health.
Have a good evening!
Member
You know there is an issue here of adultery. Now not to get into the weeds here but there is one mode of conduct that shatters the inference of the legal and that is adultery. Jesus claims it as the one exception to the everlasting bond so well stated in Mathew where He states with conclusion to marry a divorced individual is committing adultery and if you are divorced and remarry that also is adultery. Now this raises a question in John the adulterous woman is caught in the very act and brought forward for stoning as per the law. The wonder is where is the man? Ahhh the dirty hand of politics in the courts. But that political reference aside Jesus position is He does not condemn her. So what do I get from this? Love and Mercy equals rescue and mercy is greater than the legal form of justice when Love applies it .
Loyal
Hello @hopefulson,
You may be interested in taking a look at this:-
Marriage in the days of Jesus
In the days of Jesus betrothals were usually arranged by an agent working on behalf of the parents. Once the agreement had been reached, the couple are legally bound to marry one another, as a contract of betrothal was in effect. In Jewish custom the marriage had to take place within roughly a...
In Christ Jesus
Chris