Love

[Thiscrosshurts]

does that mean that everyone is a branch, non-Christians and Christians and anyone else if there is anyone else apart from these two? Is that what you are saying?

We assume this speaks of individuals and perhaps it does at a certain level of understanding.
Another way to see this is that it speaks of roles that we play in this world.
When we judge by appearances we play an unfruitful role and when we are one in Christ we are an extension of the vine and produce
the vine's fruit.

John 17:23 I in them and you in me--so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
We are gathered as one in Christ even while we are being brought into unity.
It's the same with the sheep and goats and the company of virgins awaiting the groom.
The goats talk a big game by shoving and the sheep help without incentive or claiming that they are sheep.

 

[B-A-C]

The main argument with "everyone is a branch", theology, is that the Bible says some are grafted in, and can be grafted back out again,
and can even be grafted back in again. So if they are grafted out, they aren't a branch. They're just a dead stick.

The other argument here is... if.. "all the fruit is produced by Jesus", then why do some branches produce bad fruit?
Why do some branches produce no fruit at all? Is that Jesus's fault?

There is the Fruit of the Spirit, and there is the Fruit of the flesh, does flesh fruit come from Jesus?
Be careful of your answer here... The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons because He was a demon.

There are some trees the "vine dresser" even tries to fertilize, but they still don't produce fruit. Is that his fault?

It is the branch that determines if the fruit is good or bad.

 

[B-A-C]

We assume this speaks of individuals and perhaps it does at a certain level of understanding.
Another way to see this is that it speaks of roles that we play in this world.
When we judge by appearances we play an unfruitful role and when we are one in Christ we are an extension of the vine and produce
the vine's fruit.

The universalist perspective, is always one of vagueness. The roles we play... are played by individuals. Each individual is accountable
for himself. Fruit is evidence. If we don't "judge by appearance" then there is no way to tell the good fruit from the bad.

 

[B-A-C]

What makes someone a sheep or a goat is simple. Did you love your neighbor?
Did you show them love? Did you clothe the poor, feed the hungry, visit the sick?
If not... your a goat. Plain and simple.

No cosmic role of judging by appearances makes you a sheep or a goat.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The universalist perspective, is always one of vagueness. The roles we play... are played by individuals. Each individual is accountable
for himself. Fruit is evidence. If we don't "judge by appearance" then there is no way to tell the good fruit from the bad.

Jesus was the King of "vagueness" to the carnal mind and I am still seeking to understand him not 'ists" or "isms".
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

If you are an individual then you are not "one" with Jesus and the Father.
If you are "one"with Jesus and the Father the world is not your life God and Jesus are your life.
Out of that life we can play roles like changing hats or putting on garments.
Out of that one accountability proceeds action not the other way around.
The word person comes from Greek persona and that means a false face.
We may play the role of an individual and still be one with God and Jesus.
Or we can be an individual and play roles of being one with God and Jesus.

What makes someone a sheep or a goat is simple. Did you love your neighbor?
Did you show them love? Did you clothe the poor, feed the hungry, visit the sick?
If not... your a goat. Plain and simple.

The sheep claimed they did not know who Jesus was while the goats knew all about him.
When sheep treated others the way they would want to be treated they were "one with Jesus" playing individual roles.

Goats force their will by butting with their heads.
They are individuals playing the role of being one with Jesus.

No cosmic role of judging by appearances makes you a sheep or a goat.

The cosmos is playing a cosmic role,we play individual roles but we play many roles within that individual role.
We play a child,a son or daughter,a brother or sister,a mother or father,a citizen,a worker,an advocate or a judge.
And we play multiple roles within each of those roles.

 

[amadeus2]

I think very much so. But I notice it's never called "His" fruit in the Bible. Usually it's called our fruit.

A theme I see here on TJ lately is "He is the vine, we are the branches and we can do nothing without Him".
That is true.

But He doesn't force us to do anything. We are capable of bearing bad fruit, and even no fruit at all, even while believing
Jesus is in us. The trouble with thinking Jesus makes all the fruit, is that even the bad fruit would have to come from Him.

The fruit comes from a joining of male and female. She bears the fruit but without the male she couldn't conceive.

Jesus is only the Head which is the male part of the entire Body while the rest of the Body of Christ consists of that which will bear fruit. It is the female part. When they are one flesh, the Jesus part and the Church (Mother) part then will fruit be born:

"Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder" Matt 19:6

For us, the female part of the Body of Christ to bear fruit, we must join together with the Head of the Body which is the male part, Jesus. There is NO other way...

Is this bearing of fruit not a result of Love... real Love? Doesn't the scripture say that "God is Love"?