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Losing your salvation?

Was the person you mention 'Saved' Born again from above truly saved???

How does someone know if they are born again? Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, Ray Boltz... all said they were born again.
Some Jehovah's witnesses say they are born again. Some Mormon's say they are born again.
But... how does someone know for sure?

How do you know you are? How do you KNOW...?
That isn't a facetious question... it's a real question. Pentecostals have a definitive answer... but what about everyone else? How do they know?
 
Was the person you mention 'Saved' Born again from above truly saved???

1 John 2:18-19 (NKJV)
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
What could I have done to have been sure?
 
How does someone know if they are born again? Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, Ray Boltz... all said they were born again.
Some Jehovah's witnesses say they are born again. Some Mormon's say they are born again.
But... how does someone know for sure?

How do you know you are? How do you KNOW...?
That isn't a facetious question... it's a real question. Pentecostals have a definitive answer... but what about everyone else? How do they know?
If you don't know for sure, your probably not...if someone says they are Born Again, talk may be cheap...of all the "Christians" listed in the world, I dare say few are true Born Again Christian!
 
If you don't know for sure, your probably not...if someone says they are Born Again, talk may be cheap...of all the "Christians" listed in the world, I dare say few are true Born Again Christian!

We can trade insults all day long, but... "How do you know". Ok, maybe I'm not.. fine... How do I know?
 
How does someone know if they are born again? Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, Ray Boltz... all said they were born again.
Some Jehovah's witnesses say they are born again. Some Mormon's say they are born again.
But... how does someone know for sure?

How do you know you are? How do you KNOW...?
That isn't a facetious question... it's a real question. Pentecostals have a definitive answer... but what about everyone else? How do they know?


Greetings Ray

A lot think they are, some denominations say the flock is because they are a member of the denomination.

None of the is saved, if you only think you are, you won't be. Some people think they are because they are on a god run in life, some because they seem more popular, none of that it evidence they are born again. You can tell a tree by the fruits, providing the tree has started to show fruits.

Let me ask you the same question Ray?

As for myself, I was a rat, worse than a rat, it was said, I am now ashamed, but loved it then, that 'If I didn't like someone they may as well be dead'. I didn't give a damb about anyone but myself, sex and money.

But suddenly my life changed, I lost seven years earnings in a matter of weeks, didn't go bankrupt but was left with near to nothing. We moved home to a place we had never been because a guy that worked for me said it was nice, my life changed but I was not seeking God, I incredibly got a good job, a good salary and had time on my hands. It was weird.

Then as if from no where, I was in WHSmiths book store, looking at computer mags as my wife strolled looking at craft mags etc, I walked to the back of the store, a King James Bible, was staring at me, I couldn't take my eyes off it. My wife came along and said come on we got about 10 minutes to get to the car park, I stood looking at the Bible, she asked what I was doing, she looked at the Bible, I remember saying, I been thinking of getting a Bible, she said something like what, then said, if you want it get it, come on we got to get to the car park. I didn't want it, but I purchased it, so strange.

After a few weeks I looked at it, didn't know where to starts, I mentioned it to my wife, she said start at the Gospels, i think it is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. So now and then I picked it up to read, it meant no sense to me at all. I wasn't born again,though i hadn't read that either at that point.

Then one day I said to her, 'I am going to church on Sunday' her expression was clearly WHAT! She didn't believe me, as Saturday night came she asked, what you doing tomorrow, going to church I said, I got a weird look, nothing more said.

The following morning I got ready, there was a newly built 'church' building near us, my wife was so set on the fact I was just saying it, she said, ok I'll drive you, where you going? St Paul's I replied that new one just down the road. So we got in the car, this time she drove, we pulled up outside the place...it was closed! My wife said there are no lights on, I saw,a lady near he hall next door, I ran over and asked her, is the church not open? She replied not today, there is a big service at the mother church, St George's they are training a deacon.

So I trotted back to the car, my wife asked what's happening, i told her, i asked did she know where St George's was, she said yes so took me there. As we arrived a couple of minutes to 10am, the bells were ringing loud, i asked to the door, looked round my wife was watching to see if i really did go in. In I walked, I have never seen a place so packed in all my life, I thought churches had card board cut outs of people to look busy!

I walked down the centre isle, there were no seats anywhere, even people blocking the sides, then i saw two vacant seats, i sat down bowed my head as i had seen others do and said to myself, what am i doing, what am i doing here?

I had not finished asking myself these questions, when suddenly the organ sounded and there was a rustle, i saw people standing up so thought i better do also.

Just then lady came over and asked if someone could pass her Ted coat, they did she walked off, don't know where. Then a gentleman came and sat next time. It was at this point as the choir marched out I saw a sign in front of where the man sat, it said Warden'. I gulped, I didn't look at him just stood and sat down when others did, my mind started working overtime, oh no I thought, I am sat in his wife's seat, boy isn't he going to have a go at me when all this ends, that's how wild and worldly I was, that was what I would do so expected this guy to give me a right going over when it ends.

As we approached the end of the service. I started to prepare myself to give as much back as he would give me, tension built, the choir walked out, nothing was said, I was gob smacked, so I spoke first, sorry I 'pinched your wife's seat' I said, he told me it was not a problem, he cheated, I was at peace, it was strange, he asked if I had their magazine and he gave me one, lovely chap he was. Yes I had felt a strange peace that day but was not born again, I didn't k ow yet i had to be, or what it was.

Time went on, I became a church goer, or as i would say today a place of worship goer. It was done time after that i gave my life to God, and then the doors of hell opened up. I was at peace, i had repented, i had accepted Jesus onto my heart, but at home, my wife didn't like what she saw,I was not German she married, she set the kids against me, the threat was, you are not the man I married, you can find somewhere else to live or we leave!

Boy wasn't this a test of faith, I didn't know what to do or which way to turn. I knew God was real, I knew Jesus lives, after hating that vicar and everything he stood for all those years, I know knew there was a Jesus, but if I have accepted God, given my life, believe as I do,how can He let these things happen? I didn't know which way to turn but i trusted God.

Things got worse, it was frightening brother, i remember thinking, if there is a God, there is a God, Lord help me please. It got worse at home, i was at my wits end, I had to stop going to the church, I had to stop reading my Bible at home, i had to stop leaving it to be seen. How hard that was, but then the unexpected happened, in my work i called on a couple to survey their bungalow, I introduced myself, did my work as normal, then thanked them and headed for the front door. As i stepped out, the gentleman asked if i was a Christian, i said yes, he said you have problems haven't you, i though blimey do i look that bad, but replied yes. He said come inside for a chat, so i did, he then told me he was a retired Pentecostal minister. You know what brother, God in his wisdom took away all my wife could see, I stopped going to the place of worship and met Gilbert and Mary several times a week.

I was born again my friend, I still am, I trusted God he brought me through a wilderness I would never cope with again, I won't need to again.

My faith from then to now as never dwindled one day, it has grown day on day, How do I know, I am born again, Jesus lives in my heart, I abide in him, he abides in me, he feeds me daily, even if I hadn't experienced those things, even if my faith wasn't tested as it was, I know in my heart, Jesus is alive and reigns, Jesus is my Lord, Jesus is coming again in Glory. God took me as I was a Sinner, a sex addict, a drink addict, a money worshipper, a hard hearted selfish rat and more.He took me as I was. I practice righteousness all my days, I am made new, I am old but feel very new, I am not the person I was, thanks be to God, Father Son and Holy Spirit. In Jesus Name Amen

Sorry brother you gave heard some of this before, you asked a question, I cannot let you in just one sentence or two. Sorry.
 
I feel I have done a lot in last couple of days, I am very tired, I am closing down now, going to bed. If I cannot sleep I won't count the sheep, I love to talk to the shepherd.

Peace be with you
 
Sorry brother you gave heard some of this before, you asked a question, I cannot let you in just one sentence or two. Sorry.

This is great story.. thanks for sharing... really.
But I know moral people who aren't Christians. I know people with life-changing testimonies that left the church. Surely there is something else.
 
We can trade insults all day long, but... "How do you know". Ok, maybe I'm not.. fine... How do I know?
Why use the word: insults...totally uncalled for... I don't know for sure, maybe God just put it into my heart. Maybe I just believe it to be so...take it for granted that it is a spiritual thing and don't try to always put a worldly spin on it to make sense of it!¹
 
This is great story.. thanks for sharing... really.
But I know moral people who aren't Christians. I know people with life-changing testimonies that left the church. Surely there is something else.
So did the Podigal Son. Once God is on your side, where can you fall to where God isn't?
 
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

All born again Christians have the witness of God within themselves.
 
This is great story.. thanks for sharing... really.
But I know moral people who aren't Christians. I know people with life-changing testimonies that left the church. Surely there is something else.


Sometimes in life, when things are going smooth, it is easy to think, wow we are blessed, so go with the flow.

It is not until a time of testing comes that the fruit really starts to show.

The pattern of everyone's life is different, so different, do you not think it is easy to to think you are blessed if all is going smoothly, but then the devil is less likely to attack those who are is. A person may go to church, feel they like it, sometimes think they are better people because they go to a place of worship, seeds are being sown week in week out, but fall on stony ground, into thorns etc, there is no fertile soil in their heart. Like some ministers, they are caring people, they are academic, they are good speakers, there are so many commentaries out there now, anyone could sit down and write sermons, there even sermon starts, but unless the Holy Spirit is in them they are spiritually dead. No matter how good they are at chatting and mixing with people, if the Holy Spirit is not in them they are spiritually dead.

There are so many things as you know Ray, that could make a cake look good, but if the recipe was bad, the cake will be bad also. It is what goes on in the inside that is more important than the outside. It is the same with humans, what does a man look for in a woman, what does a woman look for in a man, the husband or wife we end up with is not usually the same as the picture in our minds. I remember when I went to St Paul's CofE, the vicars do seven years and move on, hence the word vicar meaning temporary (Not in scripture), as they started looking for a new vicar, I remember to warden of the place of worship saying, 'we want a man with a round red face, to radiate to the congregation'. Looking at external things is what humans do best, that is why I think we get so many things wrong.

It is what goes on in the heart that is more important than anything else in our lives, if people of the world look at the other person's heart they will see a different person. If a Christian looks at another Christians heart, they should see good fruit, lasting fruit, ripe fruit, the right fruit!

There are so many situations in life that can make us think this or that about a person, but this is made even more confusing when we understand how the deceiver of souls works. I give in brother, other than telling by the type of fruit, providing the tree is showing fruits, we will never really know if a person is born again, not unless we have known them for a good period of time, I therefore can only speak of myself, I know I am born again, Jesus is alive in me, I abide in Him, He abides in me, I can only hope and pray that what I do over time will allow you to see Christ in me, same as I look for Christ in other believers, but time is also needed.

I would love to hear your story Ray, how do you know you are born again, I am sure you do, I say no more at this stage brother.

God Bless you my friend, Jesus is Lord.

Shalom
 
This is great story.. thanks for sharing... really.
But I know moral people who aren't Christians. I know people with life-changing testimonies that left the church. Surely there is something else.


Hi Ray

Forgot to add, it was not a story, it was a sequence of events in my changing life at that time, they were things that actually happened, I often look back and think about it. I know the place of worship had services from 10am on a Sunday morning, there was nothing saying they would be closed, obviously the congregation knew, but no external notice.

I had thought about going to church for weeks, it was out of the blue I said to my wife, 'I'm going to church on sunday'. It could have been any week, God obviously was going to change my view that Sunday and he did.

I always though of churches as clubs for OAP's that go to get a last minute card for heaven! I joked about many having cardboard cut-outs of people to look busy, lots more worldly thoughts for sure. That Sunday, God chose, when I went to the mother church and walked in the place was packed, with people no cardboard in sight. Even sitting in the warden's wife's seat and not knowing, then thinking he's going to have a go at me for sure, nicking his wife's seat! Yet he was a lovely, very gentle man, it obviously made an impression that day, but I wasn't born again at that point, more had to follow and I had to learn that I had to be born anew.

Something I forgot to add, when I came out of the place of worship, I planned to walk home (I could walk then), I came out of the car park and set off up the road, I heard a car horn, beap a few times, it caused me to look. It was my wife, she had been waiting outside, waiting for the service to end, making sure I had gone in and not walked in the door to make her think I had then come out again, the old me, anything was possible.

I do hope you feel it in your heart my friend to share, how you feel you are born again.

Peace be with you
 
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

All born again Christians have the witness of God within themselves.


Amen brother

But do they recognise it, again they should.

The biggest worry is those who think they have got it but haven't.

If the Holy Spirit isn't in them they are Spiritually dead.
 
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