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Looking to meet others who love the truth more than church

Hopeful_One

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
26
I live in a town where we have signs posted around town saying, "Try Church." I've met quite a few people that go to this church and even had some discussions with leaders from that church. They believe in "the essentials" doctrine: as long as you believe the essentials about Jesus and salvation, then you are okay and every other doctrine is peripheral and not as important and we can belief just about anything regarding those things.
Have you run into this? Do you believe in this or does your church teach this? I believe that Bible tells us that we must "receive the love of the truth." That this is essential if we want to find eternal life and we cannot play "loosey goosey" with the words of Jesus and the Bible.
 
Welcome to Talk Jesus @Hopeful_One

The 'church' is in a sad state today....watered down worldly Christianity where the feel good factor is more important than the truth.

I hope here you are able to find fellowship with Christians who love the Lord and love the truth found only in His word


...we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1 John 4:14

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy 2:5
 
I live in a town where we have signs posted around town saying, "Try Church." I've met quite a few people that go to this church and even had some discussions with leaders from that church. They believe in "the essentials" doctrine: as long as you believe the essentials about Jesus and salvation, then you are okay and every other doctrine is peripheral and not as important and we can belief just about anything regarding those things.
Have you run into this? Do you believe in this or does your church teach this? I believe that Bible tells us that we must "receive the love of the truth." That this is essential if we want to find eternal life and we cannot play "loosey goosey" with the words of Jesus and the Bible.

The "love of the truth" is the key... even if we do not know all of the details of the truth. Jesus said the he is the truth, not the Church. Every men who is not already an overcomer as Jesus is, will miss the mark sometimes when he opens his mouth to speak. Churches consist of men. Attending or belonging to a church (as opposed to The Church) can be a very good thing, but we must be careful, as I see it, not to get into following one particular group or person rather than following the Lord. When we do faithfully follow the Lord, no matter which church we are associated with, the Lord will help us move closer to understanding and knowing just what this truth is that we love.
 
Welcome to Talk Jesus @Hopeful_One

The 'church' is in a sad state today....watered down worldly Christianity where the feel good factor is more important than the truth.

I hope here you are able to find fellowship with Christians who love the Lord and love the truth found only in His word


...we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
1 John 4:14

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1 Timothy 2:5
Agreed, Fragrant Grace, but I believe it is much worse that that. False gospels abound and millions are being deceived by false prophets that infest the land because there are so few that resist them and point out the lies and heresies that they propagate. The false doctrine of "thou shalt not judge" has affected so many that they no longer discern what is right and wrong, true and false, nor do they "watch" in love for the brethren. People have allowed their eyes to be shut and their minds blinded by this evil doctrine, along with many others. So the deceivers abound. Most who are lifted up by the churches today are false and "you will know them by their fruit." But most of us don't even know what fruit Jesus is talking about.
"Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets." Luke 6:26 (KJV) Does this remind you of anyone?
 
I live in a town where we have signs posted around town saying, "Try Church." I've met quite a few people that go to this church and even had some discussions with leaders from that church. They believe in "the essentials" doctrine: as long as you believe the essentials about Jesus and salvation, then you are okay and every other doctrine is peripheral and not as important and we can belief just about anything regarding those things.
Have you run into this? Do you believe in this or does your church teach this? I believe that Bible tells us that we must "receive the love of the truth." That this is essential if we want to find eternal life and we cannot play "loosey goosey" with the words of Jesus and the Bible.
I haven't found a Church yet that doesn't , in some for or fashion, distort the truth. Is there such thing as a perfect Church? But men are constantly interpreting Biblical truth to fit a certain narrative, often a secular influenced. I often wonder if God wants me there too!
I too love the truth and find several here who share that with me, but also others who's truth are not the same as I see.
I think Jesus is coming sooner than we think!
 
I haven't found a Church yet that doesn't , in some for or fashion, distort the truth. Is there such thing as a perfect Church? But men are constantly interpreting Biblical truth to fit a certain narrative, often a secular influenced. I often wonder if God wants me there too!
I too love the truth and find several here who share that with me, but also others who's truth are not the same as I see.
I think Jesus is coming sooner than we think!
God has made me part of a small fellowship wherein the preacher is a true man of God, who does not compromise or preach heresy. He has suffered much and been thrown out of several denominational churches in his journey to understand the state of the modern church. He is rare indeed, as he loves Jesus more than position and comfort in this life. Men have tried to destroy him and his ministry, but have failed, yet bringing damnation upon themselves as they fire him and slander him ("it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than those churches") God does not want us to be part of ministries that teach false gospels or any sort of heresy or compromise in any way. Did any of the apostles compromise? They stood against sin and heresy entering the fellowship of believers and warned those of us who would come to beware of the false prophets. Those men gave their lives for Christ and his truth, refusing to deny the Lord. The Corinthian church and the Galatian church had troubles because of false prophets and heresies, but God helped them through these temptations because they had strong leaders like Paul looking out for them and exposing heretics and false brethren. Where are such men today? Every supposed Christian leader in this nation that I have ever heard of has compromised the gospel to fit into this world and maintain some sort of ministry (thus his income and place and prestige). There is none in the public eye that I have ever heard of in this generation that has stood faithful to Jesus Christ. Thus has our nation fallen far from God and is being turned into hell as the mega churches and denominational churches continue in their heresies led by their false prophets and denominational leaders. They have forsaken the right way and rejected the cross choosing the way of Cain, Balaam, or Korah. Those once believers have turned aside and are now false brethren, while others never were born again.
Jesus will not return as soon as you think, as his church has not made herself ready, neither has the gospel of our Lord Jesus been preached to all the nations. False, denominational gospels have spread through the world, but not the gospel with power as Christ and the apostles preached. That is yet to come, but it will come because Jesus said so. Note that in those days, all the nations will hate Christians. Neither is that true today either.
I'm glad to know you love the truth, Chad. Some things we talk about will cause a stir around here.
 
False gospels abound and millions are being deceived by false prophets that infest the land because there are so few that resist them and point out the lies and heresies that they propagate.

I think the scariest part is that, I'm pretty sure at least, God sent them. This people has rejected God, so he has turned them over to shepherds who don't feed the flocks, but feast on the flock.

2 Thessalonians 2
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But, we are called to help those whom we can:

Jude
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.​

Welcome to Talk Jesus!

Travis
 
When you say, "God sent them," or God sent false prophets, you would be wrong. God does not send such wicked men. He does send judgment on the wicked, and used false prophets to that end.
 
Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Jer 14:14 (KJV)
 
Jesus will not return as soon as you think,
Based on prophecies fulfilled, Jesus is returning sooner than later.
But, it really doesn't make any difference. The physical realm we live in has nothing to do with God's spiritual realm. I will either die first or be raptured when Christ gathers his church, either way, I will be with the Lord!
 
From the OP:
...They believe in "the essentials" doctrine: as long as you believe the essentials about Jesus and salvation, then you are okay and every other doctrine is peripheral and not as important and we can belief just about anything regarding those things.
Have you run into this? Do you believe in this or does your church teach this? I believe that Bible tells us that we must "receive the love of the truth." That this is essential if we want to find eternal life and we cannot play "loosey goosey" with the words of Jesus and the Bible.

"Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumbling block of their iniquity before their face. Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet, I, the Lord, will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols. That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols." - Ezekiel 14:3,4

When Ezekiel says that when the people "cometh to the prophet" to seek the will of the Lord, they are inquiring of God through the authority of "the prophet" - who the New Testament tells us is JESUS CHRIST. For example, in the book of John we learn that when Jesus preached, the people said "Of a truth, this is the prophet." (John 7:40) Peter also said that Jesus fulfilled the prediction of a great prophet that would arise in Israel when he stated "A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you...." (Acts 7:37) There are many Scriptural texts proving that Jesus is "the prophet."

Ezekiel is told by the Lord that when "every man" comes to him to seek his will and they "setteth up idols" in their hearts, God will answer them "according to the multitude of his idols" (Ezekiel 14:3, 4). First we need to see that an "idol" that is in the heart can be anything that comes between the believer and God. Because idolatry is a concept (as opposed to a statue that one worships), we must realize that an idol can be any thought, belief, bible version, or even doctrine that we want to believe.

When God says he will answer the inquirer "according to" the idol, he is saying he will not tear down the false beliefs that exist in the hearts of the believers. Remember, the text says the believers are the ones that have "set up their idols in their heart" (Ezekiel 14:3) Thus, the Lord plainly states that he will give you the answer you've already decided you want!

This is a gigantic truth, and it is another area concerning God's attributes that is commonly distorted by the false teachers. Pastors and Christian writers commonly tell us that God never deceives people - yet the Scriptures tell us that God allows us to continue in the deceptions that we've ensnared ourselves in. The Bible says "the Lord knoweth how to...reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" (II Peter 2:9).

In fact, the Apostle Paul plainly says that God will actually initiate deception when he writes that "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (II Thessalonians 2:11,10).

And it is also God who chooses their delusions! "I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not" (Isaiah 66:4).

What we're seeing here should be frightening, because it is a scriptural proof text that indicates if we are not completely sold out to hearing the truth - regardless of how unsavory the truth may be - we are subject to be deceived. Furthermore, the very fact that this principle exists is tantamount to a prediction that there will be believers that think they are truly seeking the truth, but in actuality they have placed their idolatrous doctrines in their hearts, and are going before the LORD to ask him to validate the "idol" that is their false interpretation.

In the passage in Ezekiel, the Lord also refers to "the stumblingblock of their iniquity" as another obstacle to receiving the truth when seeking God. The text indicates that when the believer "putteth the stumbling block of his iniquity before his face" when he seeks the Lord on a matter, this too will cause the Lord to "set my face against that man...." (Ezekiel 14:8).

This aspect of the prophecy informs us that our iniquity produces a "stumblingblock." Although we see variations on the term with the Scriptures sometimes calling it a "stumblingstone," the idiom is not used much in the modern English vernacular. It might be useful to state that if we think of walking forward and tripping over a large stone that we did not see, we have a valid picture of what is being said. For example, I sojourn out in the country where it is completely pitch black at night. If I am walking around in total darkness and can't see a significant stone in my path, I'm likely to fall over it and be injured.

A stumblingblock is not intrinsically evil as the Scriptures state that Christ was to "the Jews a stumblingblock, and a rock of offense...." (I Corinthians 1:23) What we see in this amazing prophecy from Ezekiel is that it is our sin that keeps us from seeing things that we need to see. To put it another way, our iniquity is directly proportional to our spiritual blindness, and God will not just override that sin and force us to hear his truth. In order to get past this vulnerable condition, we must consistently demonstrate our willingness to receive the truth - in short, we must LOVE the TRUTH.

JESUS CHRIST told us that HE is the truth - "I am the way, the truth, and the life." (John 14:6) If we genuinely love the truth, then we will find it. Indeed, the very fact that there exists a multiplicity of "Christian traditions" is an indicator that something is dreadfully wrong. Thus, the idea that 'we can agree to disagree' is completely unscriptural on any matter concerning the faith. There is only one truth, and everything else is a lie.

This is an extraordinary perspective and it cuts like the proverbial two-edged sword. The idea of stumblingblocks is essentially synonymous with the New Testament concept of Strongholds. This is another way of describing a stumblingblock. A "Stronghold" is a place where someone or something may be defended. This term is commonly used as a military concept in the context of warfare - and the Bible frequently speaks of the war that is continuously occurring in the realm of the Spirit. In I Corinthians, we see,

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds, Casting down imaginations, and every high thing [read idol] that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ...." (II Corinthians 10:3-5)

What this verse is so eloquently teaching us is that we are the ones that pull down the "Strongholds." We are the ones that seek out the "Stumblingblocks" in order achieve the victory in Christ. And we do these things, not in our power, but "through God" as we become "sanctified through the truth" (John 17:19). To be sanctified means to be set apart for glory, but for those that are not sanctified of God, "...the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness...." (Romans 1:18)

To put this into perspective, whenever we fail to fully embrace the truth, we allow the Devil to establish a Spiritual Stronghold that enters into our lives - and this is something that can eventually destroy us. When we refuse to see the truth that God wants us to see, that Stronghold becomes a Stumblingblock that causes us to stumble and fall further and further away from the will of the LORD. As this process continues, we are not abiding in the truth, and we then become subject to the wrath of God which is directed to all that "hold the truth in unrighteousness." (Romans 1:18). Essentially, when we say that we love him, and do not love the truth, we have become liars because he IS the truth.

Through Ezekiel, God says that he has allowed this situation to progress because "they are all estranged from me through their idols" (Ezekiel 14:5). God desires our fellowship - a fellowship that is true and unfeigned - not simply words, but deeds. God will hold all accountable, and the only way to ensure that we know him is to be found in him - in righteousness and in truth. "If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? For the time is come that the judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God?" (I Peter 4:18,17)

-- Brother James
 
I live in a town where we have signs posted around town saying, "Try Church." I've met quite a few people that go to this church and even had some discussions with leaders from that church. They believe in "the essentials" doctrine: as long as you believe the essentials about Jesus and salvation, then you are okay and every other doctrine is peripheral and not as important and we can belief just about anything regarding those things.
Have you run into this? Do you believe in this or does your church teach this? I believe that Bible tells us that we must "receive the love of the truth." That this is essential if we want to find eternal life and we cannot play "loosey goosey" with the words of Jesus and the Bible.

I've actually been to a church (invited) and heard a sermon on "No Doctrines"!!!!! Their stance was that we've been going so well without them up to now. Why change a good thing? I couldn't believe it! My wife was with me, so I didn't kick up a fuss! She kind of grabbed my elbow and led me out the door. :laugh:

I've come to the belief that there is no one perfect church that has a building associated with it in existence. The perfect church is is made up by the Body of Christ which can be found in and out of buildings of worship.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So, in all honesty I believe that we can church "just" about anywhere! Even online here at TJ! Emphasis on just, because we can I'm sure, come up with some locations that I do believe we should not go to church in. For there is "evil" in the world, and they like believers do congregate together. Those locations as well as others, I could easily say would not be condusive to worship, praise, fellowship, and learning!

Thanks for posting.
C4E
 
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I've actually been to a church (invited) and heard a sermon on "No Doctrines"!!!!! Their stance was that we've been going so well without them up to now. Why change a good thing? I couldn't believe it! My wife was with me, so I didn't kick up a fuss! She kind of grabbed my elbow and led me out the door. :laugh:

I've come to the belief that there is no one perfect church that has a building associated with it in existence. The perfect church is is made up by the Body of Christ which can be found in and out of buildings of worship.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

So, in all honesty I believe that we can church "just" about anywhere! Even online here at TJ! Emphasis on just, because we can I'm sure, come up with some locations that I do believe we should not go to church in. For there is "evil" in the world, and they like believers do congregate together. Those locations as well as others, I could easily say would not be condusive to worship, praise, fellowship, and learning!

Thanks for posting.
C4E
In your home!
 
I think the scariest part is that, I'm pretty sure at least, God sent them. This people has rejected God, so he has turned them over to shepherds who don't feed the flocks, but feast on the flock.

2 Thessalonians 2
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But, we are called to help those whom we can:

Jude
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.​

Welcome to Talk Jesus!

Travis
I think the scariest part is that, I'm pretty sure at least, God sent them. This people has rejected God, so he has turned them over to shepherds who don't feed the flocks, but feast on the flock.

2 Thessalonians 2
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But, we are called to help those whom we can:

Jude
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.​

Welcome to Talk Jesus!

Travis
God will do things to test are faith but I don't believe he sends false profits. Thats satans doing!
 
God will do things to test are faith but I don't believe he sends false profits. Thats satans doing!

The Lord is not as cookie cutter as we would like him to be at times. But he is always and forever holy.

19 And Micaiah said, "Therefore hear the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left;
20 and the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?' And one said one thing, and another said another.
21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, 'I will entice him.'
22 And the LORD said to him, 'By what means?' And he said, 'I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And he said, 'You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.'
23 Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you."
1 Kings 22
 
God will do things to test are faith but I don't believe he sends false profits. Thats satans doing!
We live in the New Covenant, not the old! The war is over.
The New Covenant is about God in us. He does not test our faith, our faith is tested and because of our faith, he expects the appropriate results from us.
 
Yes of course seeking the truth is important. But being correct in doctrine on every issue is not primary. I have followed Jesus for a few decades, and my understanding of the truth has shifted in significant ways during that time. I don't believe that I am more or less saved due to this.
What worries me is that too much focus on correct doctrine is used to distinguish and divide God's people. It is far more important for us to unite around the person of Jesus Christ.
 
I don't believe that I am more or less saved due to this.
I agree. In fact, you either have Jesus in you or you don't; with him there is no such thing as partially saved. You are either saved or you are not. Once in you God says he will never leave you and Jesus said he would never lose who God gives him!
 
Yes, and even though I'd have serious disagreements with my younger self, I'd have no problem being in fellowship with him.
I guess that when I am eighty, some of the truths I hold dear now at forty will look pretty flimsy.
I understand that Jesus is the truth and the way to truth. I prefer to see my self as a seeker and lover of truth rather than a holder or arbiter of truth.
It's easier to be flexible and open to correction that way.
I can see wisdom in the churches that identify and hold firmly to a small group of essential truths, and don't engage with non-essential controversies.
 
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