Judge Requires Hospital to Treat Patient With Ivermectin OR Pay $10,000 Per Day Fine | Facts Matter
Loyal
Very very interesting, speaking about the first case.
So I'm going to weigh in on this as a medical professional (mental health, that is).
*******(My post is a little long but it is worth reading every word
) ***********So we have four main actors that I see in this scenario.
(One) The patient/client
(Two) The primary provider/referring physician
(Three) The treating provider/hospital
(Four) The courts.
So I'm going to assume for the sake of discussion that the patients family is speaking on behalf of the patient and appropriate consents have been signed.
Now, as a mental health therapist, I receive referrals form doctors for clients that the referring doctor feels need mental health treatment, I also
make referrals to other mental health professionals, for example, I may make a referral to someone who specializes in art therapy to do some extra
work with my client, or sometimes I may refer to lower level services such as community mentoring supports.
Now, if I refer to someone in-house (within my agency) the person I refer to will follow my direction because I'm doing the referral and they are in-house.
However if I refer to an outside agency for something that is not my specialty, I may state with my goals for the referral but I don't dictate their treatment or get
to tell them how to do their job. If I knew how to do their job I wouldn't need to refer to another provider.
So in this case the primary provider(family physician) is not referring in-house as he is not part of the hospital staff, and further more, I don't think he
is even referring necessarily, I think the client is in the hospital because they are very sick and the primary provider is trying to coordinate care and
better support their client. When a patient goes to a hospital the hospital usually request records from the primary physician so that they have history
of medical records, but this is to inform care, the primary doctor does not dictate the treatment.
Concerning the patient, typically speaking, the patient themselves or the patient family is part of the treatment plan, but seldom do they get
to tell the doctors what treatment to provide.
Ultimately it should be a team approach. The hospital should coordinate care with the primary physician and they should inform the patient so they are
all working together, with the hospital making the final decision while taking into consideration the desires of all the other team members. The hospital
in this situation gets the final say because they have the final liability. If they were to follow an outside providers recommendations and something bad
happens, it is possible that their could be sued, and they don't want that. I also agree that the political aspect of co-vid has the hospital very sensitive.
But look at is this way, the same works in reverse. Assuming this patient gets out of the hospital, when they are discharged back to the treating
physician/primary doctor, they will share a report(discharge summary) with that doctor which will include recommendations and current medications.
However when the patient returns to the primary doctor's care, the hospital no longer will be able to dictate to the primary physician what treatment
to provide or how to treat the patient. The family physician will read the report and take into consideration what was done in the hospital but ultimately
they will make the ultimate decision. So it goes both ways.
As a medical (mental health) professional who works on teams with various professionals (social service workers, psychologist, psychiatric, primary doctors, lawyers, therapist)
ultimately the ideal is that it should be a team approach, with the in-house agency getting the ultimate say keeping the clients best interest at heart
while being mindful of their liability.
Loyal
Regarding the courts,
I think they have to operate based on the laws obviously.
Considering the Right the Try Act and the Health Care Decisions Act I think the courts
are obligated to rule in favor of the Family's request,
however if the court is not part of the picture, the way it should work (from a professional's perspective) is what I wrote above,
It should be a team effort with all the professionals talking and working together with in-house provider getting the final say in light of client's best interest and their liabilities considered.
I think they have to operate based on the laws obviously.
Considering the Right the Try Act and the Health Care Decisions Act I think the courts
are obligated to rule in favor of the Family's request,
however if the court is not part of the picture, the way it should work (from a professional's perspective) is what I wrote above,
It should be a team effort with all the professionals talking and working together with in-house provider getting the final say in light of client's best interest and their liabilities considered.
Loyal
A professionals (doctors, clinical social workers, psychiatrist, lawyers) have a license to practice which is issued by the State or a board.
If you get fired from a job you may go to another job and work,
but if your license is suspended or revoked because of mal-practice or many complaints, etc, you cannot work anywhere in that State.
So as a professional, doing what protects my license is more important than following my boss's orders at a job. If a boss tells
me (I don't have a boss because I'm in private practice but just an example) to do something that I'm not comfortable with,
I feel comfortable saying no, because if they fire me, I still have my license and can work elsewhere.
But if I do something that my boss tells me to do that I know is wrong, and I lose my license, I end up not being able to work
anywhere in my profession which I've good to many many years of school and spent 10s of thousands of dollars(education) on.
So professionals such as ourselves are very mindful of liability. And I think the hospital was very aware of the liability in this
politically charged climate and I'm glad the courts give them the needed guidance (the first case in the video-- Virginia).
If you get fired from a job you may go to another job and work,
but if your license is suspended or revoked because of mal-practice or many complaints, etc, you cannot work anywhere in that State.
So as a professional, doing what protects my license is more important than following my boss's orders at a job. If a boss tells
me (I don't have a boss because I'm in private practice but just an example) to do something that I'm not comfortable with,
I feel comfortable saying no, because if they fire me, I still have my license and can work elsewhere.
But if I do something that my boss tells me to do that I know is wrong, and I lose my license, I end up not being able to work
anywhere in my profession which I've good to many many years of school and spent 10s of thousands of dollars(education) on.
So professionals such as ourselves are very mindful of liability. And I think the hospital was very aware of the liability in this
politically charged climate and I'm glad the courts give them the needed guidance (the first case in the video-- Virginia).
Member
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Jesus_is_LORD,
YOUR QUOTE RELATIVE TO THE 4 ACTORS, WHERE YOU LEFT OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, JESUS!: "So we have four main actors that I see in this scenario.
(One) The patient/client
(Two) The primary provider/referring physician
(Three) The treating provider/hospital
(Four) The courts.
No we do not have four main actors, where we only need ONE MAIN ACTOR which is Jesus! Why did you leave out our Savior Jesus the Christ in healing said patient if they are a Christian? All any Christian needs is to pray to Jesus for their Covid19 disease and it will be healed by Jesus! Too many pseudo-christians slap Jesus in the face by not reading the Bible about prayer first and foremost!
In the following passage Jesus states the following: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24) Can it get any planer in what Jesus stated within His inspired words above regarding the healing of ones maladies, NO IT DOES NOT! Anyone want to question Jesus' passage in relation that you will be healed by Him if you ask to rid one of their Covid19 disease? NO YOU DO NOT, because you would be calling Jesus a LIAR if you did, which is BLASPHEME!
Jesus_is_LORD, remember, Jesus is watching you bypass his prayer healing by not mentioning it in the first place where the rest of what was posed is mere dribble in relation to prayer healing by Him (Hebrews 4:13).
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Jesus_is_LORD,
YOUR QUOTE RELATIVE TO THE 4 ACTORS, WHERE YOU LEFT OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, JESUS!: "So we have four main actors that I see in this scenario.
(One) The patient/client
(Two) The primary provider/referring physician
(Three) The treating provider/hospital
(Four) The courts.
No we do not have four main actors, where we only need ONE MAIN ACTOR which is Jesus! Why did you leave out our Savior Jesus the Christ in healing said patient if they are a Christian? All any Christian needs is to pray to Jesus for their Covid19 disease and it will be healed by Jesus! Too many pseudo-christians slap Jesus in the face by not reading the Bible about prayer first and foremost!
In the following passage Jesus states the following: "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mark 11:24) Can it get any planer in what Jesus stated within His inspired words above regarding the healing of ones maladies, NO IT DOES NOT! Anyone want to question Jesus' passage in relation that you will be healed by Him if you ask to rid one of their Covid19 disease? NO YOU DO NOT, because you would be calling Jesus a LIAR if you did, which is BLASPHEME!
Jesus_is_LORD, remember, Jesus is watching you bypass his prayer healing by not mentioning it in the first place where the rest of what was posed is mere dribble in relation to prayer healing by Him (Hebrews 4:13).
.
Loyal
Amen, thanks for mention Jesus I agree.
I also agree with you that many Christians do not pray first to Jesus when sick.
Obviously that does not mean that Jesus does not want us to go to doctors.
In Jesus days doctors were common, and they often treated many people who were sick with their
limited knowledge from herbs, etc. Often times in Jesus days people went to Jesus because many
illnesses the doctors could not cure (1) because they lacked the science(knowledge) and (2) some
were rooted in strong demonic and spiritual strongholds which the doctors could not break.
I doctors have a place, but I agree with you that Jesus is the ultimate healer, He permits the doctors to heal.
I think we agree on more things than you know.
I'm actually writing a book which includes the very point you mentioned regarding how we don't pray to
Jesus first. I think I did a poor job on my post truly representing who I am and what I believe, but I don't fault
you because you don't know me but only the words I posted. And the words I posted did a poor job in
capturing what I truly believe.
Thanks for the reply.
Love and God Bless.
Member
@Jesus_is_LORD,
In writing your forth-coming book upon the topic at hand, how will you address this biblical axiom of Jesus' healing modus operand in prayer, of which has always given me pause when the following passage inspired by Jesus does not work.
Jesus stated; “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22) The key word is: “believing,” in that you will receive your prayer request, which triggers the prayer in a direct absolute manner, and in the case of healing oneself of any sickness, is the problem. In this prayer scenario, what if a Christian does not get their prayer answered pertaining to the healing of their sickness, then the onus is put upon them because they obviously didn’t “believe” enough as the verse in question so states as a prerequisite to your healing!
I have had 2 Christian friends that followed the passage above in their wanting to be healed from the Covid-19 virus, and where they did NOT take the vaccinations because they were comfortable in Jesus healing them if they did get the virus. BUT, they prayed relative to Matthew 21:22 and their sickness progressed to the point of them dying because of the virus! Therefore the question has to be asked, did my Christian friends not believe enough in Jesus' words as a prerequisite for their healing outcome?
This unfortunate Biblical scenario still bothers me to this day and the reason that I am questioning my Christian faith to be 100 percent true.
Thank you for your time.
.
In writing your forth-coming book upon the topic at hand, how will you address this biblical axiom of Jesus' healing modus operand in prayer, of which has always given me pause when the following passage inspired by Jesus does not work.
Jesus stated; “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing ye shall receive.” (Matthew 21:22) The key word is: “believing,” in that you will receive your prayer request, which triggers the prayer in a direct absolute manner, and in the case of healing oneself of any sickness, is the problem. In this prayer scenario, what if a Christian does not get their prayer answered pertaining to the healing of their sickness, then the onus is put upon them because they obviously didn’t “believe” enough as the verse in question so states as a prerequisite to your healing!
I have had 2 Christian friends that followed the passage above in their wanting to be healed from the Covid-19 virus, and where they did NOT take the vaccinations because they were comfortable in Jesus healing them if they did get the virus. BUT, they prayed relative to Matthew 21:22 and their sickness progressed to the point of them dying because of the virus! Therefore the question has to be asked, did my Christian friends not believe enough in Jesus' words as a prerequisite for their healing outcome?
This unfortunate Biblical scenario still bothers me to this day and the reason that I am questioning my Christian faith to be 100 percent true.
Thank you for your time.
.