Greetings dear brother
@Bendito
At Talk Jesus the foundation of the forum is
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Romans 3:23
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners;
1 Timothy 1:15
Whilst I fully agree that as Believers we need to be careful not to judge falsely.....we also have to stand up for the truth of the Bible.
Joel Osteen's feel good, ear pleasing messages avoid the issue of sin and of the lost needing a Saviour. He preaches his way rather than the Lord's way.
Joel Osteen quotes on talking about sin.......
No. That's not me. It's never been me. I've always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father he came from the Southern Baptist background and back 40, 50 years ago there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just -- I don't believe in that. I don't believe -- maybe it was for a time. But I don't have it in my heart to condemn people. I'm there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.
Criticized for being a preacher of “cotton candy Christianity,” Osteen responded in an interview with Kristi Watts of 700 Club, “When I see thousands of people before me, it just doesn’t come out of me to say, 'You guys are terrible, and you’re going to Hell.' I’d rather say that God is a God of mercy. You’ve got to live an obedient life, but for every mistake you’ve made, there’s mercy there, and I believe we can do better.”
Hey Little Sister...We, as a group have been here before, more than once...Yes you are right. We do have to stand up for the Bible..the truth of the bible, but the Bible also teaches us how to do that. And attacking a man is not the way. Basically the way we stand up to false teaching is to 1 Teach the truth and 2 Chastise those who follow the false teachers and encourage them to follow the true Word.
Jude 3-5 (CJB)
3 Dear friends, I was busily at work writing to you about the salvation we share, when I found it necessary to write, urging you to keep contending earnestly for the faith which was once and for all passed on to God’s people. 4 For certain individuals, the ones written about long ago as being meant for this condemnation, have wormed their way in — ungodly people who pervert God’s grace into a license for debauchery and disown our only Master and Lord, Yeshua the Messiah.
5 Since you already know all this, my purpose is only to remind you that
Adonai, who once delivered the people from Egypt, later destroyed those who did not trust.
Reminding us that the false ones are out there and to keep teaching the truth.
.
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (CJB)
4 The Spirit expressly states that in the
acharit-hayamim some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come from the hypocrisy of liars whose own consciences have been burned, as if with a red-hot branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods which God created to be eaten with thanksgiving by those who have come to trust and to know the truth.
Please note here that there are Christians who in their zeal to please God, get quite legalistic and end up teaching false doctrine too. I wonder if they all start there.
Stay away from them.
Romans 16:17-18 (CJB)
17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put snares alongside the teaching in which you have been trained — keep away from them. 18 For men like these are not serving our Lord the Messiah but their own belly; by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the innocent.
We’re supposed to keep away from the false teachers.
Matthew 7:15 (CJB)
15 “Beware of the false prophets! They come to you wearing sheep’s clothing, but underneath they are hungry wolves!
Stay away!
Colossians 2:8 (CJB)
8 Watch out, so that no one will take you captive by means of philosophy and empty deceit, following human tradition which accords with the elemental spirits of the world but does not accord with the Messiah.
Again Stay away
2 John 7-11 (CJB)
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, people who do not acknowledge Yeshua the Messiah’s coming as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an anti-Messiah. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you won’t lose what you have worked for, but will receive your full reward. 9 Everyone who goes ahead and does not remain true to what the Messiah has taught does not have God. Those who remain true to his teaching have both the Father and the Son. 10 If someone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, don’t welcome him into your home. Don’t even say, “
Shalom!” to him; 11 for the person who says, “
Shalom!” to him shares in his evil deeds.
Stay away, have nothing to do with them.
Ephesians 5:6-13Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
6 Let no one deceive you with empty talk; for it is because of these things that God’s judgment is coming on those who disobey him. 7 So don’t become partners with them!
8 For you used to be darkness; but now, united with the Lord, you are light. Live like children of light, 9 for the fruit of the light is in every kind of goodness, rightness and truth — 10 try to determine what will please the Lord.
11 Have nothing to do with the deeds produced by darkness, but instead expose them, 12 for it is shameful even to speak of the things these people do in secret. 13 But everything exposed to the light is revealed clearly for what it is,
Expose the Works. Not the man.
Rebuke them.
1 Timothy 4:1 (CJB)
4 The Spirit expressly states that in the
acharit-hayamim (the last days) some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons
Titus 1:13-14 (CJB)
13 and it’s true! For this reason, you must be severe when you rebuke those who have followed this false teaching, so that they will come to be sound in their trust 14 and no longer pay attention to Judaistic myths or to the commands of people who reject the truth.
So we are to rebuke the followers of false teachers. Not the false teacher.
1 John 4:1 (CJB)
4 Dear friends, don’t trust every spirit. On the contrary, test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Test the spirit…Do you know how to do that? Of course you do.
1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (CJB)
21 But do test everything — hold onto what is good, 22 but keep away from every form of evil.
You even check the scriptures against what is shared with you.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15(CJB)
13 The fact is that such men are pseudo-emissaries: they tell lies about their work and masquerade as emissaries of the Messiah. 14 There is nothing surprising in that, for the Adversary himself masquerades as an angel of light; 15 so it’s no great thing if his workers masquerade as servants of righteousness. They will meet the end their deeds deserve.
They will reap their own end. You don’t have to do it.
Galatians 1:8-9 (CJB)
8 But even if we — or, for that matter, an angel from heaven! — were to announce to you some so-called “Good News” contrary to the Good News we did announce to you, let him be under a curse forever! 9 We said it before, and I say it again: if anyone announces “Good News” contrary to what you received, let him be under a curse forever!
He’s already under a curse. You don’t have to do anything wild.
2 Peter 2 (CJB) Yeah. The entire chapter talks about it.
2 But among the people there were also false prophets, just as there will be false teachers among you. Under false pretenses they will introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and thus bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 Many will follow their debaucheries; and because of them, the true Way will be maligned. 3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabricated stories.
Their punishment, decreed long ago, is not idle; their destruction is not asleep! 4 For God did not spare the angels who sinned; on the contrary, he put them in gloomy dungeons lower than Sh’ol to be held for judgment. 5 And he did not spare the ancient world; on the contrary, he preserved Noach, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, and brought the Flood upon a world of ungodly people. 6 And he condemned the cities of S’dom and ‘Amora, reducing them to ashes and ruin, as a warning to those in the future who would live ungodly lives; 7 but he rescued Lot, a righteous man who was distressed by the debauchery of those unprincipled people; 8 for the wicked deeds which that righteous man saw and heard, as he lived among them, tormented his righteous heart day after day. 9 So the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and how to hold the wicked until the Day of Judgment while continuing to punish them, 10 especially those who follow their old natures in lust for filth and who despise authority.
Presumptuous and self-willed, these false teachers do not tremble at insulting angelic beings; 11 whereas angels, though stronger and more powerful, do not bring before the Lord an insulting charge against them. 12 But these people, acting without thinking, like animals without reason, born to be captured and destroyed, insult things about which they have no knowledge. When they are destroyed, their destruction will be total — 13 they will be paid back harm as wages for the harm they are doing.
Their idea of pleasure is carousing in broad daylight; they are spots and defects reveling in their deceptions as they share meals with you — 14 for they have eyes always on the lookout for a woman who will commit adultery, eyes that never stop sinning; and they have a heart that has exercised itself in greed; so that they seduce unstable people. What a cursed brood!
15 These people have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Bil‘am Ben-B‘or, who loved the wages of doing harm 16 but was rebuked for his sin — a dumb beast of burden spoke out with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s insanity! 17 Waterless springs they are, mists driven by a gust of wind; for them has been reserved the blackest darkness. 18 Mouthing grandiosities of nothingness, they play on the desires of the old nature, in order to seduce with debaucheries people who have just begun to escape from those whose way of life is wrong.
19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for a person is slave to whatever has defeated him. 20 Indeed, if they have once escaped the pollutions of the world through knowing our Lord and Deliverer, Yeshua the Messiah, and then have again become entangled and defeated by them, their latter condition has become worse than their former. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the Way of righteousness than, fully knowing, to turn from the holy command delivered to them. 22 What has happened to them accords with the true proverb, “
A dog returns to its own vomit.”[
a] Yes, “The pig washed itself, only to wallow in the mud!”
There are false teachers, how they get that way, the end of them. All in progress.
If you do anything….
1 Timothy 5:19-21 (CJB)
19 Never listen to any accusation against a leader unless it is supported
by two or three witnesses.[
a] 20 Rebuke before the whole assembly those leaders who continue sinning, as a warning to the others. 21 Before God, the Messiah Yeshua and the chosen angels, I solemnly charge you to observe these instructions, not pre-judging and not doing anything out of favoritism.
Do it right!
Zechariah 8:16-17 (CJB)
16 These are the things you are to do: speak the truth to each other; in your courts, administer justice that is true and conducive to peace; 17 don’t plot harm against each other; and don’t love perjury; for all these are things I hate,’ says
Adonai.”
Speak and preach the truth
Ephesians 4:25Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
25 Therefore, stripping off falsehood,
let everyone speak truth with his neighbor,[
a] because we are intimately related to each other as parts of a body.
Bind the body together in truth and love
Ephesians 4:14-16 (CJB)
14 We will then no longer be infants tossed about by the waves and blown along by every wind of teaching, at the mercy of people clever in devising ways to deceive. 15
Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in every respect grow up into him who is the head, the Messiah. 16 Under his control, the whole body is being fitted and held together by the support of every joint, with each part working to fulfill its function; this is how the body grows and builds itself up in love.
Preaching the truth in Love
Ephesians 4:29 (CJB)
29 Let no harmful language come from your mouth, only good words that are helpful in meeting the need, words that will benefit those who hear them.
Speaking against anybody defies these criteria
Jude writes in verse 3 of his epistle, “I found it necessary to write and exhort you to contend for the faith that was delivered to the saints once for all.”
The Holy Spirit has stirred Jude’s heart, causing him to grieve over the manner in which his beloved friends are allowing false teachings to seep into the church. They must not sit idly by while interlopers undermine the first-order doctrines established by the eyewitnesses of the life of Christ, something we all agree on.
Like Paul, who writes that “an obligation is placed on me” to preach the gospel (1 Cor. 9:16), Jude senses a heavy burden that compels him to address false teachers in the church. He and his readers are not able to share a common salvation if they lose the doctrinal truths that define it. Therefore, Jude exhorts them to contend for the faith.
Agonizing for sound doctrine
“Contend” is a strong word that translates the Greek compound verb
epagonizomai, found only here in the New Testament and translated “earnestly contend” in some translations.
The simple verb
agonizomai first meant to compete in an athletic contest, and then, more generally, to fight, struggle, or strive. It’s where we get the English transliteration “agonize.”
Like Jude, the apostles invest themselves heavily in teaching sound doctrine to followers of Jesus and preparing church leaders to defend the faith.
For example, Paul tearfully urges the Ephesian elders, “Be on guard for yourselves, and for all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. In addition, men from among you will rise up with deviant doctrines to lure the disciples into following them. Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I did not stop warning each of you with tears” (Acts 20:28-31).
Even though they must contend with Jewish lawyers, Roman rulers, Greek philosophers, and miracle-working sorcerers, the apostles engage in their fiercest battles
inside the seemingly safe confines of the confessing church. That’s where the greatest challenges to Christianity lie.
The church has withstood – and even flourished under – persecution, but it threatens to bleed out from the self-inflicted wounds of false doctrine. Jude senses this and urges his readers to “agonize” in defense of the faith.
Jude does not suggest a violent response to false teachers, and neither do the apostles.
Peter encourages us with his balanced plan of attack, urging us to “set apart the Messiah as Lord in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. However, do this with gentleness and respect, keeping your conscience clear, so that when you are accused, those who denounce your Christian life will be put to shame” (1 Peter 3:15-16).
By contending for “the faith,” Jude is not referring to saving faith, or to trust in God’s promises, although he would heartily agree these are important aspects of our rest in the sufficiency of Christ. Rather, Jude is writing about the body of doctrine that defines Christianity – principally the first-order issues that pertain to our common salvation.
Luke writes about this in Acts 2:42, as first-century believers continually devote themselves to the apostles’ teaching, fellowship, breaking bread, and prayer. Further, Paul instructs Timothy to protect the faith – the sound words the young pastor has heard from Paul. He is to guard the treasure entrusted to him through the indwelling Holy Spirit (2 Tim. 1:13-14).
Jude wants his readers to know that “the faith” is firmly established and unchanging. The work of Christ is finished. He is seated at the Father’s right hand as our Mediator and Intercessor. He has sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment, as well as to regenerate, baptize, indwell, seal, fill, comfort, and lead His own.
Further, He is preparing a place for us in His kingdom. And He is coming one day in power and great glory to fulfill all things. The gospel of the kingdom is written in the blood of Jesus and confirmed in the empty tomb. It is “delivered to the saints once for all” (Jude 3b).
